Obama think tank wants to replace "assault weapons" bans with purchase permits

[aacx22]

Your time in the service does not trump my time in the civilian world. You can fight for mandatory service, but when you come to take our children, and the freedom they have, the fight in Vietnam will look like a preschool fight.

There are many more professions that risk their lives daily beyond the military. I would never enter a house fire with someone who was forced to be behind me.

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It's nice in the civilian sector to be able to pick and choose like that.

 

[Oldgrunt]

All of you are right about this being a free country but guess who insures we stay that way? The military. Right now we have a volunteer military. Prior to that, conscription was used to provide a fighting force. If the need arises, you will see the draft being implemented again because we do not have sufficient forces to protect our country and fight wars in other places at the same time. I am as much an advocate of our freedoms as any of you but it is silly to think that those freedoms do not come at a cost and have to be protected. If the war is brought to us, who will fight it? My time in service was not made to trump any time others have had in this world. It did give me an advantage of knowing what can happen to a country that refuses to defend itself. I can't comprehend how people can't understand that, at some time or another, wars will be fought and, like it or not, our sons and daughters will be involved. There are a lot of us too old to be involved in a war again so it will be the young who will bear the brunt of it. NotToShure, you are wrong in stating that the government can not dictate to us in time of war. That will not have any effect on the Second Amendment. That will be an entirely different issue unless they try to confiscate our weapons. If a war comes here, I would hate to be one who tries to confiscate anyone's weapons. If war were to come here, you, me and everyone else would come under the dictates of the government and no amount of bluster will change that. I don't like it, you don't like it but we will have to do what is necessary. While we still have the freedoms to do so, I think everyone should lead their lives as they see fit. As VA Pete says, let them become artists, bums, doctors or whatever it is that will make them happy. But, when push comes to shove, is everyone supposed to sit back and tolerate fighting in our neighborhoods and not worry? Nah, I don't think so and would bet my bottom dollar you wouldn't either!

 

[Firefighterchen]

It's nice in the civilian sector to be able to pick and choose like that.

There is no draft right now, you get to pick and choose from the same pool of people I do.

All of you are right about this being a free country but guess who insures we stay that way? The military.

Wrong. My freedom is my responsibility.

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[JimTh]

Center for American Progress is trying to re-package an AWB to make it more likely to pass in congress by calling it a purchase permit system. They haven't studied why the AWB has consistently failed to pass in recent years. The Wikipedia article does a pretty good job of explaining this.

The first AWB was in place for nearly 10 years, yet most reliable studies have concluded that it had no signifiant effect on crime and that a big part of this is that "assault weapons" are rarely used in the commission of crime. One report author says that if the AWB had been in place for a longer period of time, they might have gotten more significant data. Right. 10 years wasn't long enough to produce significant data.

The biggest impact of the AWB? "Lott's book The Bias Against Guns provided evidence that the bans reduced the number of gun shows by over 20 percent." Reduced gun shows, but not crime.

From Wikipedia:

What is really a hoot is that this same government, FEMA to be specific, thinks they can predict the chances of a 100 year storm event based on perhaps 60 years of empirical data of a system that is perhaps bazillions of years old but somehow they need more than 10 years to be able to forecast a man made event. Not to terribly transparent is it? What it means is...we need to extend the AWB until we get the data we need...if it ever comes.

 

[kelcarry]

The "Obama Think Tank" mentioned in the initial thread is a classic definition of an oxymoron. Putting the words "obama" and "think" together is stupid and revolting. The girlyman is a pathological narcissist who only believes in the word "I" and his followers have a psychotic disorder that relegates them to kissing his skinny black pituty.

 

[dcselby1]

When did I say they wouldn't fight like hell?

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As a Vietnam veteran, I am still a might sensative when I feel that veterans, (particularly those of my era) I served with have been slighted in any way. You stated that "drafted men will never fight as hard as free men." Not sure what you are trying to say, but the draftees I knew and served with in Vietnam fought like hell. And, while they may have been conscripts, they were still free men and went "above and beyond" for their country. Many people don't remember how these guys were treated when they returned home after "doing their duty."

 

[Firefighterchen]

You stated that "drafted men will never fight as hard as free men." Not sure what you are trying to say, but the draftees I knew and served with in Vietnam fought like hell.

What's confusing? Did you find where I stated drafted soldiers wouldn't fight like hell yet?

If you think soldiers in Vietnam fight like hell, what do you think soldiers in America's next revolution will be like? If there is a place worse than hell...they will have to fight like it because that's where free men will be to defend their freedom.

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[Oldgrunt]

There is no draft right now, you get to pick and choose from the same pool of people I do.



Wrong. My freedom is my responsibility.

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Wrong! Unless you are superhuman and kryptonite is the only weapon that can be used against you, your freedom is the responsibility of the country, our military forces that will defend us and, hopefully, a government that can and will function properly. It is ridiculous to think that you, alone, can stand against an armed enemy. Bravado will not save your bacon when things get rough. You will be glad to see our military saving your rear end and will not question how they came into the military but will be very thankful that they are there. Our volunteer military is wearing very thin now and there has already been mention of reinstituting the draft from Congress. If they do, our sons and daughters will definitely be called and there will not be a thing we can do about it. That will be the price of freedom and will be an obligation on all. I remember hearing it said, "The cost of freedom isn't free!" Think of the millions of men who have been drafted into the military over the years to fight in wars not of their making. It has happened before and I have no doubt of it happening again.

 

[Firefighterchen]

Wrong! Unless you are superhuman and kryptonite is the only weapon that can be used against you, your freedom is the responsibility of the country, our military forces that will defend us and, hopefully, a government that can and will function properly. It is ridiculous to think that you, alone, can stand against an armed enemy. Bravado will not save your bacon when things get rough. You will be glad to see our military saving your rear end and will not question how they came into the military but will be very thankful that they are there. Our volunteer military is wearing very thin now and there has already been mention of reinstituting the draft from Congress. If they do, our sons and daughters will definitely be called and there will not be a thing we can do about it. That will be the price of freedom and will be an obligation on all. I remember hearing it said, "The cost of freedom isn't free!" Think of the millions of men who have been drafted into the military over the years to fight in wars not of their making. It has happened before and I have no doubt of it happening again.

Wrong. Men have died so I can defend my own freedom. When the next war on American soil comes, it will be against our own military.

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[S&W645]

Wrong. Men have died so I can defend my own freedom. When the next war on American soil comes, it will be against our own military.

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More likely it will be against our armed camp agencies. The military is the least of our worries and many in the case of what you are thinking will be on our side doing what their oath requires. Defending us from enemies both foreign and domestic.

 

[Firefighterchen]

More likely it will be against our armed camp agencies. The military is the least of our worries and many in the case of what you are thinking will be on our side doing what their oath requires. Defending us from enemies both foreign and domestic.

Time will tell. Let's just say American history doesn't back you up. (Bonus army, Katrina, Boston)

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[Oldgrunt]

Wrong. Men have died so I can defend my own freedom. When the next war on American soil comes, it will be against our own military.

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Chen: Men have not died so you can defend your own freedom. They died so you could have your freedom in this country, now. You are assuming we will have a revolution here and will be fighting our own military. Sadly, you may be right in part but not all of our military will go to war against us. I feel that our immediate concern will be from people who have slipped into the country and will try to inflict harm on us through bombings and other means of destruction. If, and/or when, something like that happens, you will find a lot of your freedoms curtailed, not as a punishment, but due to the necessity of protecting the country from within. If that happens, a lot of things will change and individuals who like to boast now of what they will do will see things in a very different light. Believe me, it will be very different from what we are used to.

 

[Firefighterchen]

Chen: Men have not died so you can defend your own freedom. They died so you could have your freedom in this country, now.

Same difference. They died so I can have freedom. Now, it's my job to defend my freedom, no one else's.

You are assuming we will have a revolution here and will be fighting our own military. Sadly, you may be right in part but not all of our military will go to war against us. I feel that our immediate concern will be from people who have slipped into the country and will try to inflict harm on us through bombings and other means of destruction. If, and/or when, something like that happens, you will find a lot of your freedoms curtailed, not as a punishment, but due to the necessity of protecting the country from within. If that happens, a lot of things will change and individuals who like to boast now of what they will do will see things in a very different light. Believe me, it will be very different from what we are used to.

Only because freedom is not worth fighting for...rather drafting and more laws is what people want...good luck with that.

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[Ringo]

Only because freedom is not worth fighting for...rather drafting and more laws is what people want...good luck with that.

Sad to say, I believe that describes the majority of Americans and exactly why the New World Order Agenda & it's Process of Assimilation will be a piece of cake.



Life Is Good. :victory:

 

[dcselby1]

Why is it that so many people are "too good" to serve and defend "their" country? "Let the other guy do it." "Only idiots join the military." I heard it all for many years, especially as an Army recruiter. The same people are the ones that put flags on their cars for a week or so after 9/11. Part time patriots, I guess you could say. When I was growing up in the fifties I was taught that serving our country was a duty. Part of being an American. So, all the time I was growing up, I knew that I would someday be drafted unless I enlisted. So I did, even though it wasn't exactly what I wanted to do at eighteen and in the middle of a war!

I guess you just have to have that feeling in your heart because I see so many people who would rather let others do the hard work. It has to be from the heart because throughout history, promise after promise have been made to our soldiers and the politicians ALWAYS renege. The military is great when they're needed and to be tucked away in a corner, out of sight so as not to embarrass anyone when they're not.

 

[Firefighterchen]

Why do so many people think "serving and defending" "their country" can only be done through the military?

Why are Americans so judgemental of others? So self centered to think one path in life is the only path, anything different is part time patriotism?

Just like the thin blue line, if you guys want to separate yourselves, just remember, armed civilians outnumber our military nearly 20 : 1.

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[Oldgrunt]

Why do so many people think "serving and defending" "their country" can only be done through the military?

Why are Americans so judgemental of others? So self centered to think one path in life is the only path, anything different is part time patriotism?

Just like the thin blue line, if you guys want to separate yourselves, just remember, armed civilians outnumber our military nearly 20 : 1.

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Chen: You seem to want to be adversarial to most anything posted other than your opinions. And to say Americans are judgemental of others? First, let me ask, are you an American? Chen would seem to be an Asian name so are you of Asian descent? If so, it would seem your ancestors came here to be Americans and make their mark. Why? Things are better in America than most places in the world? Most of us think so but we are not judgemental for that reason. Personally, I think Americans are judgemental of those who do not pull their weight in our society and try to participate in making the American dream for everyone. Now, if you want to argue about something, grab a handful of that theory and run with it. If you are talking about disagreement with someone, we, including you, are all guilty of that. We all have opinions and are not hesitant to express them and, regardless of the subject, there will be some who will take exception to another's opinion and have a "hissy fit." That is southern for a tantrum, if you didn't know. Your remark about civilians outnumbering the military 20:1 indicates you look at the military/veterans as adversaries. Why? What harm have we done to you or do you expect from us? As for future roles for the military, particularly against the civilian populace, we can only speculate what they may be required to do but I don't expect it to be as bad as some are trying to say. Remember the stand-off at Clive Bundy's ranch? I think the government found out there that we, as a nation, are tired of heavy-handed rule and subjugation of all civilians will be an undertaking they may not wish to try. Your remark about the military separating themselves from the rest of the populace indicates to me just how little you know about the military. WE are YOU! We are citizens as well as you and have as much regard for the country as you. We are not separate....we are all melded together for a common goal. We do not question your patriotism because you are in a different career field. You do your thing and we do/did ours and the world continues to go round and round. Doesn't get much better than that!Link Removed

 

[mooosie]

Old grunt great answer


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[Pkersey2]

I agree


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[Firefighterchen]

Chen: You seem to want to be adversarial to most anything posted other than your opinions. And to say Americans are judgemental of others?

Is being adversarial bad? How can ones expression of opinion be adversarial, and anothers not?

Being adversarial is not the same as judgmental.

First, let me ask, are you an American? Chen would seem to be an Asian name so are you of Asian descent? If so, it would seem your ancestors came here to be Americans and make their mark. Why? Things are better in America than most places in the world? Most of us think so but we are not judgemental for that reason.

I'm an American. My grandparents came here to expand their wealth, as my family in Taiwan are already doing fine. Your why is invalid when talking about my family.

Personally, I think Americans are judgemental of those who do not pull their weight in our society and try to participate in making the American dream for everyone.

Which is fine, but it seems some here have decided to judge others not by the weight they pull, but by their willingness to serve this government or not.

Now, if you want to argue about something, grab a handful of that theory and run with it. If you are talking about disagreement with someone, we, including you, are all guilty of that. We all have opinions and are not hesitant to express them and, regardless of the subject, there will be some who will take exception to another's opinion and have a "hissy fit." That is southern for a tantrum, if you didn't know.

Is this an accusation towards me or just an observation in general towards everyone?

Your remark about civilians outnumbering the military 20:1 indicates you look at the military/veterans as adversaries. Why? What harm have we done to you or do you expect from us?

Human history, governments have killed more civilians in human history than any other group, and guess who they used? They're own militaries. Do I need to wait till I'm harmed to prepare?

As for future rolls for the military, particularly against the civilian populace, we can only speculate what they may be required to do but I don't expect it to be as bad as some are trying to say. Remember the stand-off at Clive Bundy's ranch? I think the government found out there that we, as a nation, are tired of heavy-handed rule and subjugation of all civilians will be an undertaking they may not wish to try.

I remember, I also remember Katrina and Boston. Who will I side with? The People, not the government...and the military takes orders from who?

Your remark about the military separating themselves from the rest of the populace indicates to me just how little you know about the military. WE are YOU! We are citizens as well as you and have as much regard for the country as you. We are not separate....we are all melded together for a common goal. We do not question your patriotism because you are in a different career field. You do your thing and we do/did ours and the world continues to go round and round. Doesn't get much better than that!Link Removed

Why is it that so many people are "too good" to serve and defend "their" country? "Let the other guy do it." "Only idiots join the military." I heard it all for many years, especially as an Army recruiter. The same people are the ones that put flags on their cars for a week or so after 9/11. Part time patriots, I guess you could say. When I was growing up in the fifties I was taught that serving our country was a duty. Part of being an American.

Sure sounds like there is judgment of patriotism and even being an American based on career fields in the above post.

I'm not the one acting as if military experience should dictate a separate class of people worthy of public office, nor would it surprise me if that same group would require it for our other natural rights. That's you guys. I merely recognized it.

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