"New jersey at it again" hope this is not a duplicate

[xdmgator]

This lady even volunteered the info that she had a gun and that she was a CCW holder...yes I know a permit holder should know the laws of each state if you so happen to visit or drive through, so in reality its her own fault ...but given the circumstances of this case its crazy that there is no middle ground for the Judge...in New Jersey the law states Mandatory sentence

'Honest mistake' leads to Philly mother facing three years on gun charge | Fox News

 

[topgun47]

Just another reason to avoid "the garden" state.

 

[gfrlaser]

The major networks have picked up this story. Will be interesting to watch how it plays out.

 

[BC1]

Just another reason to avoid "the garden" state.

Nearly every state in the country will arrest a non-resident for carrying a concealed gun without a permit or reciprocity. And ignorance of the law is not a defense. While I don't like the laws I will obey a state's laws.

 

[jmf552]

Here's what I can't figure out. Why did she tell the cop she had a gun? PA, where she has her permit, doesn't require that on a traffic stop. If she had kept her mouth shut and just taken the ticket, she would have been OK. It's just like that other story where the guy had to recheck his bags at LaGuardia and he had a gun inside his suitcase that he had declared at his departure airport. He tells the airline agent about it and winds up being busted by the NYPD.

I've been taking a bunch of CCW training at NRA HQ in Fairfax. Every class has emphasized: When it comes to CCW and self-defense, you say NOTHING, period. If they ask you questions, you plead the 5th, period. Even if you still get busted, the cops are going to have to make a strong probable cause argument and the case may get thrown out. If you say, "I gotta gun!" You are handing them your head on a platter.

 

[ss1]

Seem's like she only had her license for a week

 

[jmf552]

That's one of the issues with PA's system. There is no training requirement...none. You never have to have fired a gun or attended a class. This is also the reason more states don't have reciprocity with PA.

 

[whodat2710]

That's one of the issues with PA's system. There is no training requirement...none. You never have to have fired a gun or attended a class. This is also the reason more states don't have reciprocity with PA.

PA has it right on that. More mandates by the government means more infringement. Training is a good thing, but once it is required by the government it is just another infringement.

 

[jmf552]

PA has it right on that. More mandates by the government means more infringement. Training is a good thing, but once it is required by the government it is just another infringement.

I respect your opinion, but I can't agree. To me training and testing is just a way of ensuring the "militia is well regulated," not an infringement. An infringement would be if the government absolutely prevents something even with reasonable regulations. The 2008 and 2010 Supreme Court decisions on the Second Amendment agree that is the correct interpretation. The founding fathers assumed, rightly, that people then knew how and when to use firearms. These days it's obviously not the case. I'm all for gun rights, including concealed carry, but I don't want untrained, untested people doing it, any more than I want them driving cars, flying airplanes or performing brain surgery. The military and law enforcement demands training for carrying firearms and for good reason. Civilians should be subject to the same.

 

[whodat2710]

There are two things about your well-reasoned and highly literate post that you should consider:

To me training and testing is just a way of ensuring the "militia is well regulated," not an infringement. An infringement would be if the government absolutely prevents something even with reasonable regulations...The founding fathers assumed, rightly, that people then knew how and when to use firearms. These days it's obviously not the case.

Training is GREAT, mandated training is an INFRINGEMENT. If the states are ready to call up the militias to serve, then they have the responsibility to make sure they are trained - that has nothing to do with self defense. When you use the word "reasonable" (some anti-gunners say "common sense") with regards to regulations or anything else produced by the idiots we have in office it gets really scary - tell me I'm wrong.

The 2008 and 2010 Supreme Court decisions on the Second Amendment agree that is the correct interpretation.

If you believe that those lifetime appointed partisan hacks are the great deciders of what the founding fathers intended then explain the Obamacare ruling (among others) and explain why a large percentage of the rulings are 5-4 along partisan lines.

The military and law enforcement demands training for carrying firearms and for good reason. Civilians should be subject to the same.

This last is just a pet peeve of mine. Law enforcement are civilians like the rest of us. The biggest difference is that they are not controlled (owned) by their job once they go home for the evening.

 

[jmf552]

There are two things about your well-reasoned and highly literate post that you should consider:



Training is GREAT, mandated training is an INFRINGEMENT. If the states are ready to call up the militias to serve, then they have the responsibility to make sure they are trained - that has nothing to do with self defense. When you use the word "reasonable" (some anti-gunners say "common sense") with regards to regulations or anything else produced by the idiots we have in office it gets really scary - tell me I'm wrong.

If you believe that those lifetime appointed partisan hacks are the great deciders of what the founding fathers intended then explain the Obamacare ruling (among others) and explain why a large percentage of the rulings are 5-4 along partisan lines.

This last is just a pet peeve of mine. Law enforcement are civilians like the rest of us. The biggest difference is that they are not controlled (owned) by their job once they go home for the evening.

"Training is GREAT, mandated training is an INFRINGEMENT" That is your opinion. The legal reality is that many states can and do require training and it is a practical solution to having untrained people running around with guns. It also helps maintain some public confidence in concealed carry programs. By the way, the idiots we have in office were freely elected by the "collective us." If we can't get out the vote, the other side will and the conservative showing has been pathetic the last few major elections. That's our fault. As has been said, "Every nation gets the government it deserves."

I don't agree about police officers. Most of them are technically "on duty" 24/7. They still have a legal "duty to act" even off-shift. Also, they are owned by their job once they go home. They can be called in at any time in an emergency. In regards a firearms discussion, they are not civilians like us. They are sworn officers of the government they work for. Also, if they use their firearms in a defense situation, it will be handled by the rules of an officer involved shooting, by internal affairs, not homicide. I think that is as it should be.

 

[BC1]

"Training is GREAT, mandated training is an INFRINGEMENT" That is your opinion. The legal reality is that many states can and do require training and it is a practical solution to having untrained people running around with guns. It also helps maintain some public confidence in concealed carry programs. By the way, the idiots we have in office were freely elected by the "collective us." If we can't get out the vote, the other side will and the conservative showing has been pathetic the last few major elections. That's our fault. As has been said, "Every nation gets the government it deserves."

I don't agree about police officers. Most of them are technically "on duty" 24/7. They still have a legal "duty to act" even off-shift. Also, they are owned by their job once they go home. They can be called in at any time in an emergency. In regards a firearms discussion, they are not civilians like us. They are sworn officers of the government they work for. Also, if they use their firearms in a defense situation, it will be handled by the rules of an officer involved shooting, by internal affairs, not homicide. I think that is as it should be.

I keep telling gun owners if they continue to act as they do they can say goodbye to their gun rights. I give it two more generations and the little gimmie's will be in charge. Raised and educated by progressive liberals. What will their reaction to crime be? I wouldn't want to be a young person today. I think they'll lose a lot of rights over their lifetime.

 

[Firefighterchen]

I'm glad my state doesn't require training infringements.

We also don't see any more accidents than states that do require it.

More money for me to buy ammo and practice with.

Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app

 

[Nightmare45]

NJ violates the Constitution and will be ignored.

 

[indyyy]

Indiana also does not require any formal training. While I think it's a good idea, I certainly don't want it forced on me - and I'll bet if they did make it a requirement in every state the cost of training would sky rocket.

 

[jmf552]

Indiana also does not require any formal training. While I think it's a good idea, I certainly don't want it forced on me - and I'll bet if they did make it a requirement in every state the cost of training would sky rocket.

The first state I got my permit in was MO, which requires training that you have to pass both a written test and a shooting test. The second was PA, where there is no training requirement. Then there was VA, where you only need to show proof of "firearms proficiency," and then Utah non-resident where you have mandatory training. The cost today for training in MO is $125, PA (which is optional) is $100, VA (where it was optional for me) $125 and UT $125. Unless you see $25 "skyrocketing" I'm not seeing it. And it would be money well spent at twice the price. I am an experienced shooter, but I am always happy to review the basics. Novice shooters should not be carrying on the streets without some training anymore than novice drivers should be driving without some training.

 

[Firefighterchen]

I am an experienced shooter, but I am always happy to review the basics. Novice shooters should not be carrying on the streets without some training anymore than novice drivers should be driving without some training.

And so question to be answered...who decides who is experienced or a novice? You? Washington dc? California? Illinois? The UN?

Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app

 

[TruckTurner68]

Here's what I can't figure out. Why did she tell the cop she had a gun? PA, where she has her permit, doesn't require that on a traffic stop. If she had kept her mouth shut and just taken the ticket, she would have been OK. It's just like that other story where the guy had to recheck his bags at LaGuardia and he had a gun inside his suitcase that he had declared at his departure airport. He tells the airline agent about it and winds up being busted by the NYPD.

I've been taking a bunch of CCW training at NRA HQ in Fairfax. Every class has emphasized: When it comes to CCW and self-defense, you say NOTHING, period. If they ask you questions, you plead the 5th, period. Even if you still get busted, the cops are going to have to make a strong probable cause argument and the case may get thrown out. If you say, "I gotta gun!" You are handing them your head on a platter.

She was in thw habit of informing the police, in Philadelphia where she obtained her permit they now require permit holders to inform upon being detained or come in contact with leos.

 

[longslide10]

The major networks have picked up this story. Will be interesting to watch how it plays out.

I'm sure the NRA, GOA, SAF and NAGR will come to her aid. NJ laws are absurd as are many other states on the west coast and in New England

 

[BC1]

Most states will charge a non-resident carrying a concealed handgun without a permit or reciprocity agreement. It's not a NJ thing. Same will happen in TX, NC, FL, etc.