Need some advice on a good carry gun for a woman

[Unfettered Might]

Doing some research for a friend of mine and I'm trying to decide between a 357 mag or a 38 special +P revolver.

I like the knockdown power of the mag, but it requires a 4 inch barrel to take advantage of the load or one might as well use a 38 special +P. Not to mention the extra flash and bang, which can be bad at night, that comes from a 2 inch 357.

I know that 38 special and 357 mag can be fired from the same gun but is weight is an issue? 17oz vs 38oz for the particular ones I am looking at..

Now picture a 110 pound 5'7 woman with petite hands.

Is the 357 just too much for a woman her size?

Is the 38 special +P round a decent SD round?

Time is of the essence as the store she works at had an unruly shoplifter last night, who made lethal threats against her as well as the rest of the store employees, WHILE HE WAS WAITING AT GUNPOINT for the police to arrive. Threats such as "I'll be back to get all of you", understandably has her on edge.

Thanks for the help.

 

[ecocks]

My advice is to get her to a range and let her handle some different weapons for comfort and fit, then do some range time with rentals or borrowed units if possible. IMO, picking a weapon for someone is only a very last ditch resort.

In the circumstance you describe and also assuming she's a good friend with adequate firearms familiarity, I would loan her whichever of my guns she felt most comfortable with for the short run, then get her to some stores this weekend if she is unnerved by this incident. Of course, the loan of the firearm would be subject to the laws of the state and area you reside. Regrettable, but the reality we live in.

 

[6shootercarry]

Doing some research for a friend of mine and I'm trying to decide between a 357 mag or a 38 special +P revolver.

I like the knockdown power of the mag, but it requires a 4 inch barrel to take advantage of the load or one might as well use a 38 special +P. Not to mention the extra flash and bang, which can be bad at night, that comes from a 2 inch 357.

I know that 38 special and 357 mag can be fired from the same gun but is weight is an issue? 17oz vs 38oz for the particular ones I am looking at..

Now picture a 110 pound 5'7 woman with petite hands.

Is the 357 just too much for a woman her size?

Is the 38 special +P round a decent SD round?

Time is of the essence as the store she works at had an unruly shoplifter last night, who made lethal threats against her as well as the rest of the store employees, WHILE HE WAS WAITING AT GUNPOINT for the police to arrive. Threats such as "I'll be back to get all of you", understandably has her on edge.

Thanks for the help.

She will need to try both. I can tell you from experience that the 2" barrel lightweight .357 Mag revolver felt like a bomb going off in hand when fired. I did not like the feel of it. I have a 4" .357 mag revolver and that has lots of buck and snort with full house mags.

The short barrel will not be good with full mags as you stated. No benefit will be had, due to lots of extra flash, huge recoil and muzzle flip. That makes quick shots and or follow up shots tough. If she is a new shooter that will make the experience less then stellar.

Then again I could be presuming (which in the past I have been accused of and found guilty of) so...

I would be inclined to buy a Ruger LCR or the LCP for that matter..
The LCR gets high marks for reliability, is very small and easy to conceal, has no exposed hammer and the trigger is easy to work. It's rated for .38spec +P.

Perhaps worth the look.

Peace...

 

[theicemanmpls]

A 357 or 38 with +P is perfect. Make triple sure, a 38 pistol says 38+p on it before inserting +p rounds.
A 357 pistol is built more soild then .38. It will fire any and all +p 38 and 357.
Stay away from the .357 rounds for most people. Especially in small revolvers. They hurt the shooer, almost as much as the shootie.

A revolver is very simple. It will work 99% of the time.

5' 7" @ 110 lbs? Someone buy that girl a cheeseburger.

 

[rock919]

I actually can not choose a weapon for you or any other woman. I do know that I own a Sig Sauer 226R. I am extremely happy with it. It is made for a man with big hands. Very dependable and very popular for civilians, law enforcement and the military. Sig Sauer just came out with a new version of the Sig 226. They changed the grips and I believe this is especially good for wemon. It is a 9mm and I do not feel it is to much for you to handle. I have a 9mm and it is great. The Navy Seals also use a 9mm. The model number of this weapon is 226X5-9-TAC. I really think you should check it out. I would suggest you go to the Sig Sauer Web Site and review the information in reagard to it!

 

[Unfettered Might]

My advice is to get her to a range and let her handle some different weapons for comfort and fit, then do some range time with rentals or borrowed units if possible. IMO, picking a weapon for someone is only a very last ditch resort.

In the circumstance you describe and also assuming she's a good friend with adequate firearms familiarity, I would loan her whichever of my guns she felt most comfortable with for the short run, then get her to some stores this weekend if she is unnerved by this incident. Of course, the loan of the firearm would be subject to the laws of the state and area you reside. Regrettable, but the reality we live in.

Yeah I tried that, but she can't rack the slide reliably and even pinched the skin on the side of her finger and I had to get it off her lol. Semi's are out as an option and I don't own any revolvers...yet. I would love to take the proper time to let her try different guns, but it's just not feasible under the circumstances.

She will need to try both. I can tell you from experience that the 2" barrel lightweight .357 Mag revolver felt like a bomb going off in hand when fired. I did not like the feel of it. I have a 4" .357 mag revolver and that has lots of buck and snort with full house mags.

The short barrel will not be good with full mags as you stated. No benefit will be had, due to lots of extra flash, huge recoil and muzzle flip. That makes quick shots and or follow up shots tough. If she is a new shooter that will make the experience less then stellar.

Then again I could be presuming (which in the past I have been accused of and found guilty of) so...

I would be inclined to buy a Ruger LCR or the LCP for that matter..
The LCR gets high marks for reliability, is very small and easy to conceal, has no exposed hammer and the trigger is easy to work. It's rated for .38spec +P.

Perhaps worth the look.

Peace...

Everything I've read about the 357 in a 2" echos what your saying, it's definitely not an option, I'm just sweating that 2.6 pounds of gun she'll have to carry. I'll just have to wait until I get there and compare it when it's actually in my hand.

A 357 or 38 with +P is perfect. Make triple sure, a 38 pistol says 38+p on it before inserting +p rounds.
A 357 pistol is built more soild then .38. It will fire any and all +p 38 and 357.
Stay away from the .357 rounds for most people. Especially in small revolvers. They hurt the shooer, almost as much as the shootie.

A revolver is very simple. It will work 99% of the time.

5' 7" @ 110 lbs? Someone buy that girl a cheeseburger.

I was going for 125g 357 as a way to gain the benefits of the round without all the power associated with the larger grains. The revolver is the only way to go for her. Like I told her, if there's a problem in a SD scenario, just keep pulling the trigger. I was going to have her practice with the 38s of course and let her try the 357 round and see if she could handle it or not. Figured something like the first couple rounds +P and the rest 357 if she came across some drug crazed assailant. I told her that if the first 2 shots didn't do it, the next would and she probably wouldn't need the rest.

Oh and she looks just FINE the way she is lol.

 

[6shootercarry]

.357 Mag 125gr hollow points (Federal cartridge# 357B) are what I run in the Model 65 S&W. Try them first!!! They are stout in a small 2" revolver and they are gonna hurt some for a lady. Not being a male pig here, I didn't like it..

The Ruger LCR is light weight @ 14oz unloaded and it's a polymer frame w/ small 5 round stainless cylinder. Check local prices. $400 or so for online prices.

Ruger LCR Double-Action Revolver Models

Peace...

 

[ecocks]

Personally, I believe you are letting this situation place you in a dangerously reactive response to a perceived threat.

You say she cannot rack a slide, fine. What are the odds she will need to do an underfire reload anyway? If she has no time for training (a serious, glaring problem in this whole situation), give her your best fitting auto with one in the chamber, safety on and ready to go or DA w/ the hammer down. That gets her something ASSUMING it is within the laws of your state for how she wishes to carry it.

Then go find her a 6-shot, shrouded .32 revolver while she takes some training to learn how to handle higher grade firearms and discover what she is comfortable with as a long term carry.

Perhaps her sense of urgency is coloring this but the situation you outline screams of stopgap measures which can result in tragedy due to a "never enough time to do it right" mentality. In this case, if it goes bad you probably won't get to do it over though.

 

[6shootercarry]

You say she cannot rack a slide, fine. What are the odds she will need to do an underfire relaod anyway? If she has no time for training (a serious, glaring problem in this whole situation), give her your best fitting auto with one in the chamber, safety on and ready to go or DA w/ the hammer down. That gets her something ASSUMING it is within the laws of your state for how she wishes to carry it.

Then go find her a 6-shot, .32 revolver while she takes some training to learn how to handle higher grade firearms and discover what she is comfortable with as a long term carry.

Perhaps her sense of urgency is coloring this but the situation you outline screams of stopgap measures which can result in tragedy due to a "never enough time to do it right" mentality. In this case, if it goes bad you probably won't get to do it over though.

I have to agree here. If it's for what she expects will happen tomorrow or in the next day or so, poor planning and lack of working knowledge could work against her. Not to insult, just to state what I'm sure you know and feel as well.

If she intends on beginning down the road to "responsible firearms ownership" then let the journey begin. Take it slow and find what works for her long term as stated above.

The idea of having that kind of power and not quite enough time to learn to use it, manage it, whatever you what to call it can be tragic for her or others.

Just 2 pennies out there for public rebuke... Good Luck..

Peace..

 

[Unfettered Might]

Well you guys are right I am concerned about the lack of training. The weekend is coming up and I will have her out on the range to do some training. She has been hunting before for small game and has used a rifle just not a handgun. So at least I know for sure she knows which one is the business end.

I agree that her having to clear a stovepipe or a misfire are slim, especially with high grade SD ammo. I just know that with a revolver, she isn't going to have a problem period. I won't be having her get a 2" revolver if I go with a 357, it would be a 4". I might go with a 2" if I decide on a 38 though.

Making some assumptions here, the guy isn't going to be getting out anytime soon and I have at least the weekend to have a couple days of instruction on not only the use of her handgun but also the SD laws in Kentucky.

The rules are really lax here on ownership. No registration is required for person to person transfers. OC cannot be regulated by our constitution, although exceptions were made for detention centers, courthouses and K-12 schools.

She can just OC until I can get her into a CC class, which works better for her job. She's allowed to carry there but they would prefer it to be concealed, although they have told her that they will make a temporary exception for her until she can get her CC license.

 

[6shootercarry]

Sounds like it may become a new part of her lifestyle. Let the journey begin.

Hope it works out well, she carries a gun without ever having to use it, and dies very old, dreaming in her bed.. Best anyone could hope for really...

Peace...

 

[eaccents]

Shopping for a gun for someone else

I spent weeks researching pistols, and narrowed my choices to a CZ P-01, a Sig P239, a Walther PPS. and a Sig P232--all excellent pistols, with excellent reputations.

I went to the gun store, handled them all, asked a million questions, rented a couple, and went home with an H&K USP9c. This gun wasn't even on my radar, but it felt more comfortable in my hand than any of the ones I researched.

Like many posters here have noted, there is NOTHING like handling and firing the gun YOURSELF. Research--your own or someone else's--and the experiences of others are factors in the equation, but really the person shooting the gun should shop for the gun herself (or himself).

I have since added a Kahr MK9 to my carry list, and I find that gun to fit me perfectly. The H&K is a fine fine weapon, and I don't think I'll ever sell it, but the Kahr's size, thin grip, heft and balance, trigger, and very light recoil make the gun easy to shoot, easy to carry... FOR ME. Carrying comfortably, and having a gun that is comfortable (and comforting) to the user is paramount in choosing a self-defense weapon. I now carry the MK9 everyday.

I agree with a previous poster: give her something she can use NOW, and shop for a weapon of her own for the long run.

As to racking the slide, Massad Ayoob has a tip in the following article: Armed and Female by Massad Ayoob Issue #63

In it, he mentions a method of racking the slide that works for many females--even his 13 year old learned to do it this way (aka Israeli Method): "For example, most men operate a semiautomatic pistol by holding the frame in their dominant hand, and reaching across their chest with the free hand and grabbing the slide to “rack” it back. This is an upper body strength intensive technique, pitting arm against arm, and a lot of smaller or older women can’t do it well with many pistols. They’ll have better luck with the “slingshot” technique, in which the support hand firmly grabs the slide and pulls back while the gun-hand is pushing forward. This can be combined with a turn of the hips that puts the entire body weight into the movement, making it happen almost effortlessly."

One more note: When my guns were new, the recoil springs were very very tight/strong. Now that they have been broken in (500+ rounds) they are MUCH easier to rack. Have your friend try the Ayoob method of racking a slide with a pistol whose recoil spring is "broken in."

Best of luck to her, and kudos to you for doing all you can to help her.

 

[Unfettered Might]

I spent weeks researching pistols, and narrowed my choices to a CZ P-01, a Sig P239, a Walther PPS. and a Sig P232--all excellent pistols, with excellent reputations.

I went to the gun store, handled them all, asked a million questions, rented a couple, and went home with an H&K USP9c. This gun wasn't even on my radar, but it felt more comfortable in my hand than any of the ones I researched.

Like many posters here have noted, there is NOTHING like handling and firing the gun YOURSELF. Research--your own or someone else's--and the experiences of others are factors in the equation, but really the person shooting the gun should shop for the gun herself (or himself).

I have since added a Kahr MK9 to my carry list, and I find that gun to fit me perfectly. The H&K is a fine fine weapon, and I don't think I'll ever sell it, but the Kahr's size, thin grip, heft and balance, trigger, and very light recoil make the gun easy to shoot, easy to carry... FOR ME. Carrying comfortably, and having a gun that is comfortable (and comforting) to the user is paramount in choosing a self-defense weapon. I now carry the MK9 everyday.

I agree with a previous poster: give her something she can use NOW, and shop for a weapon of her own for the long run.

As to racking the slide, Massad Ayoob has a tip in the following article: Armed and Female by Massad Ayoob Issue #63

In it, he mentions a method of racking the slide that works for many females--even his 13 year old learned to do it this way (aka Israeli Method): "For example, most men operate a semiautomatic pistol by holding the frame in their dominant hand, and reaching across their chest with the free hand and grabbing the slide to “rack” it back. This is an upper body strength intensive technique, pitting arm against arm, and a lot of smaller or older women can’t do it well with many pistols. They’ll have better luck with the “slingshot” technique, in which the support hand firmly grabs the slide and pulls back while the gun-hand is pushing forward. This can be combined with a turn of the hips that puts the entire body weight into the movement, making it happen almost effortlessly."

One more note: When my guns were new, the recoil springs were very very tight/strong. Now that they have been broken in (500+ rounds) they are MUCH easier to rack. Have your friend try the Ayoob method of racking a slide with a pistol whose recoil spring is "broken in."

Best of luck to her, and kudos to you for doing all you can to help her.

Really good advice on the slide racking method, the difference is amazing. I suggest anyone reading this with semis should try it. I almost want to say it takes half the force, seriously.

Thanks eaccents, it's enough of a difference that I could see her being able to do it. Opens up some more options with 9mm +P+.

 

[TXiceman]

Most women are not going to like shooting or carrying a 357 mag. I have always recommended a woman carry a small 38 loaded with +p hollow points. Easy to load and fires every time.

Ken

 

[CapGun]

.357 Mag 125gr hollow points (Federal cartridge# 357B) are what I run in the Model 65 S&W. Try them first!!! They are stout in a small 2" revolver and they are gonna hurt some for a lady. Not being a male pig here, I didn't like it..

The Ruger LCR is light weight @ 14oz unloaded and it's a polymer frame w/ small 5 round stainless cylinder. Check local prices. $400 or so for online prices.

Ruger LCR Double-Action Revolver Models

Peace...

The LCR is a great little gun for CC. No hammer, DAO, takes 38 or 38+p
I think instead of worrying about stopping power with one shot maybe if she ran just .38 and not +p it would be easier for her to make a follow up shot. That might be what she would need in all practicality. No training? = Not much practice = missed first shot under stress. If you do want more power I think .38 special+P would work just fine! Besides you can put a Crimson Laser Grip on the LCR and you have an easy to conceal nifty personal protection tool. Just my $.02!leasantry:

 

[eaccents]

Weight of the pistol

The LCR is a great little gun for CC. No hammer, DAO, takes 38 or 38+p
I think instead of worrying about stopping power with one shot maybe if she ran just .38 and not +p it would be easier for her to make a follow up shot. That might be what she would need in all practicality. No training? = Not much practice = missed first shot under stress. If you do want more power I think .38 special+P would work just fine! Besides you can put a Crimson Laser Grip on the LCR and you have an easy to conceal nifty personal protection tool. Just my $.02!leasantry:

I agree with CapGun: for a newbie to get a one-stop shot isn't very realistic. If she has to shoot, she will likely need to get quite a few shots off, so follow-up ability will be a big deal in her case.

Not knocking the LCR in any way, because from all accounts it is a great light-weight revolver. I am knocking LIGHT-WEIGHT guns for a new shooter, though.

It may seem counter-intuitive when looking for her first gun, but I think a newbie shooter should look at a pistol with more heft, which would dampen recoil considerably and help a lot with follow up shots.

I LOVE my stainless steel Kahr MK9, which empty and without the magazine is a whopping 22oz. I also LOVE my larger [polymer framed] pistol, an H&K USP 9c, which empty and without the magazine is 23.5oz.

I got to shoot a friend's brand new Sig P229 [aluminum frame], and I have to say it was definitely heavier than either of my own guns (P229 is 32oz with magazine), BUT a real pleasure to shoot. Follow up shots are faster because recoil is almost non-existent.

Tips for new shooters or for teaching new shooters:

I'm no expert, but as I learned I took extensive notes on all of my targets (yes, I'm THAT nerdy!) so that in a few years I will be able to teach my daughter to shoot.

GRIP: I've learned that the new shooter needs to have a really good grasp on the handgun grip. I added a Pearce Grip Extender to the short grip on my MK9 (so I could grasp with my pinky too), and it has made a world of difference on the speed of my follow-up shots. Additionally, I have realized that the 60/40 percent grip strength (60% weak hand, 40% dominant hand) is something to really adhere to. Last, I initially tried M. Ayoob's "dominant thumb down" grip but the "two thumbs forward" grip used by shooters like Brian Enos and Rob Leatham seems to work better [see pic below].

Link Removed

STANCE: Teach the new shooter to LEAN INTO the shot...so many new shooters lean slightly backwards for some reason. Leaning into the shot helps a lot with recoil. Also, stances should be such that the shooter can be dynamic (in motion and balanced).

BREATH CONTROL: It makes a difference, believe it or not. Also, holding a small breath before each shot means you breath in a little less of the chemicals that exit your firearm when shooting

Best of luck to Unfettered Might's friend, and thanks to all in this forum who pitch in to help.

 

[Marissa]

I'm no pro but I AM a girl. I personally don't like revolvers but they may be the best thing for your friend if she has a hard time racking a slide. Though I dare say that with a little practice she will do just fine with a semi.

As for what she should carry- let her try holding a few different firearms. As a woman with small hands I can certainly attest to the fact that many firearms are not made for little hands. I LOVE my husband's S&W M&P compact 9. I'm also a fan of his beretta. Many firearms that I have tried and thought I would love I have not.

Good luck to your friend!

 

[Caspian45]

Try smith and wesson lady smith 38 spl. But for me the best carry gun for you is Sig Sauer 380. Less recoil and light to carry.

 

[Wolfling68]

Yeah I tried that, but she can't rack the slide reliably and even pinched the skin on the side of her finger and I had to get it off her lol. Semi's are out as an option and I don't own any revolvers...yet. I would love to take the proper time to let her try different guns, but it's just not feasible under the circumstances.

My wife did exactly the same thing. She now will not touch a Taurus. She did have difficulties at first, but once she learned how (there is technique to racking a slide!!) she never looked back. Now she loves her Baby Eagle.

 

[Unfettered Might]

My wife did exactly the same thing. She now will not touch a Taurus. She did have difficulties at first, but once she learned how (there is technique to racking a slide!!) she never looked back. Now she loves her Baby Eagle.

That's ironic considering it was a Taurus she was racking, lol.