Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water...errrr...your car...

[apvbguy]

So pop the trunk. What's the big deal? Contribute. Help find the thieving bastards.

does the 4th amendment mean anything to you? how about the 5th? in MD the 2nd has been discarded and the 1st is in trouble.

 

[apvbguy]

Then back of my truck has a cover. It has to be unlocked. They don't violate your rights by asking and getting consent. If you say no and they do it anyway they've violated your rights.

man, you really are dense!
most people tend to be intimidated by cops with huge weapons barking orders at them, these cops were no requesting anything, they were demanding compliance by holding every driver on that highway hostage.

 

[BC1]

Nobody "asks" at gunpoint, and only slaves "volunteer" their help at gunpoint.

As confident and steadfast as you are as a leader in business, you are exposing a slave-like mentality when it comes to your subservience to the state. The absolute best you can do at gunpoint is survive an illegal search. Under no rational evaluation of this situation could anyone on that freeway be seen as a free citizen just doing his/her civic duty by "voluntarily helping" the cops.

And why do you not address the enormous amount of danger the cops put everyone else on that freeway in by corralling three known armed suspects in close proximity to hundreds of 100% innocent citizens? You can't honestly believe that the cops are good enough shots to avoid hitting innocents if one (or more) of the perps decided to go out in a blaze of glory, can you?

Blues

Not subservient at all. This entire country and everyone in it can go screw themselves. When it comes to my life I'm no one's friend for sure. If they pointed a gun at me there would be immediate consequences, like plowing right through them in the truck. No one will point a gun at me without consequences. I don't care who you are. I won't make any distinction. If they ask I'll help them. Point the gun and I'll run you down with prejudice.
.
For everyone who's critical, how should the police have handled this? Give the armchair quarterbacks a chance to expound.

 

[apvbguy]

Not subservient at all. This entire country and everyone in it can go screw themselves. When it comes to my life I'm no one's friend for sure. If they pointed a gun at me there would be immediate consequences, like plowing right through them in the truck. No one will point a gun at me without consequences. I don't care who you are. I won't make any distinction. If they ask I'll help them. Point the gun and I'll run you down with prejudice.
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For everyone who's critical, how should the police have handled this? Give the armchair quarterbacks a chance to expound.

wow, you've just gone from complying with the heavily armed gestapo like cops to opening fire on them! I wonder what will happen next?
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[BluesStringer]

If they pointed a gun at me there would be immediate consequences, like plowing right through them in the truck. No one will point a gun at me without consequences. I don't care who you are. I won't make any distinction. If they ask I'll help them. Point the gun and I'll run you down with prejudice.

OK, looking straight out from behind the steering wheel of your truck you see this. "Asking" for your help, or run 'em down with prejudice?

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Those are the choices you gave, BC. You jump out and unlock the cover of your truck bed, or hit the gas?

For everyone who's critical, how should the police have handled this? Give the armchair quarterbacks a chance to expound.

The answer is simple: Any way that doesn't further threaten the safety of innocent people than the perps already have.

I'm going to show a pic towards the end of the event, after all three were in custody, in order to set the scene for the other couple or three pics I'm going to show before anyone knew exactly where they were:

Link Removed

The next pics will be from the car right next to the rear tires on the right side of the dump truck. Every single cop you see in the above pic had their weapons drawn while they skulked around in between the cars in this general vicinity. This next pic was captured (by me) from the video at the OP link right after four officers from at least two, maybe three, different agencies walked by the guy's car who's taking the video. The female officer approached his car and went backwards away from the four who continued forwards through the traffic.

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The guy in the red car is also shooting video. Look in the side mirror and you can see one of the four cops I just described standing at the rear quarter-panel of the videographer's vehicle. The other three went off to the left around the back of the dump truck which you can see in this screen-cap:

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At this point the guy sitting in the car has a cop with a rifle at both rear corners of his car. To his right is the female with only a pistol having put at least three cars between herself and where the perps have just been discovered one car-length back and to the left of the dump truck. Notice the K-9 handler taking cover behind the passenger-side door of the car right next to where you can see the head of an officer on the driver's side leaning over handcuffing one of the perps. No video that I've found shows how long the K-9 guy and his dog were in the position they were, but just imagine what would've happened had one of the perps fired a single shot to commit suicide rather than be taken alive anywhere on the time-line up to this point.

This so-called "bold" and "unique" road-block of a freeway going both ways put hundreds, if not thousands, in grave danger. It's a freakin' miracle that no one was killed, and that's only thanks to the lack of commitment by the perps to see what they started through to the end. One shot would've sparked hundreds more by all those cops taking cover behind innocent drivers' vehicles. Whether it would have been a cop's bullet or a perp's that killed an innocent, the blame would've fallen squarely on whoever made the bone-headed call to have several dozen heavily armed cops dispersed throughout many dozens of cars and trucks.

I don't know BC, I never expected you to go straight from saying you'd "help" them to you'd mow 'em down if their guns were pointed at you, but as you can see, it wouldn't have mattered whether they kept their weapons in the low-ready position or had 'em pointed right between your eyes, because once somebody, anybody, fires a shot, their trigger fingers are workin' like the lifters on that dump truck. Hell, a backfire could've set it off.

Please don't be so anxious to help tyrants turn their enforcers loose on the unsuspecting, and undeserving public. They only get away with the screw-ups because they have the support of the citizens, when it should be that they only have the support of citizens when the screw-ups are exceedingly rare, and they're not.

Blues

 

[BC1]

OK, looking straight out from behind the steering wheel of your truck you see this. "Asking" for your help, or run 'em down with prejudice?

Link Removed

Those are the choices you gave, BC. You jump out and unlock the cover of your truck bed, or hit the gas?



The answer is simple: Any way that doesn't further threaten the safety of innocent people than the perps already have.

I'm going to show a pic towards the end of the event, after all three were in custody, in order to set the scene for the other couple or three pics I'm going to show before anyone knew exactly where they were:

Link Removed

The next pics will be from the car right next to the rear tires on the right side of the dump truck. Every single cop you see in the above pic had their weapons drawn while they skulked around in between the cars in this general vicinity. This next pic was captured (by me) from the video at the OP link right after four officers from at least two, maybe three, different agencies walked by the guy's car who's taking the video. The female officer approached his car and went backwards away from the four who continued forwards through the traffic.

Link Removed

The guy in the red car is also shooting video. Look in the side mirror and you can see one of the four cops I just described standing at the rear quarter-panel of the videographer's vehicle. The other three went off to the left around the back of the dump truck which you can see in this screen-cap:

Link Removed

At this point the guy sitting in the car has a cop with a rifle at both rear corners of his car. To his right is the female with only a pistol having put at least three cars between herself and where the perps have just been discovered one car-length back and to the left of the dump truck. Notice the K-9 handler taking cover behind the passenger-side door of the car right next to where you can see the head of an officer on the driver's side leaning over handcuffing one of the perps. No video that I've found shows how long the K-9 guy and his dog were in the position they were, but just imagine what would've happened had one of the perps fired a single shot to commit suicide rather than be taken alive anywhere on the time-line up to this point.

This so-called "bold" and "unique" road-block of a freeway going both ways put hundreds, if not thousands, in grave danger. It's a freakin' miracle that no one was killed, and that's only thanks to the lack of commitment by the perps to see what they started through to the end. One shot would've sparked hundreds more by all those cops taking cover behind innocent drivers' vehicles. Whether it would have been a cop's bullet or a perp's that killed an innocent, the blame would've fallen squarely on whoever made the bone-headed call to have several dozen heavily armed cops dispersed throughout many dozens of cars and trucks.

I don't know BC, I never expected you to go straight from saying you'd "help" them to you'd mow 'em down if their guns were pointed at you, but as you can see, it wouldn't have mattered whether they kept their weapons in the low-ready position or had 'em pointed right between your eyes, because once somebody, anybody, fires a shot, their trigger fingers are workin' like the lifters on that dump truck. Hell, a backfire could've set it off.

Please don't be so anxious to help tyrants turn their enforcers loose on the unsuspecting, and undeserving public. They only get away with the screw-ups because they have the support of the citizens, when it should be that they only have the support of citizens when the screw-ups are exceedingly rare, and they're not.

Blues

What I see are guns aimed in a "low-ready" position. Ask me for help in that situation and I'll help. Anything to get a perp. Point the gun at me directly and I hit the pedal. Pull me out of the car and throw me to the ground and I'll sue. Some of us have the $$ and legal means to turn the PD's lights out. Most people are empty threats who complain and have no ability to pursue anything. This is an interesting position as a number of posters who think the police are endangering the public are the same posters who state they'll open-up during a robbery at Denny's. Double standard.
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Once again, long post not needed... if you ask and I agree then no one's rights are violated. But I won't be forced. There's no right or wrong in this. It's purely my opinion based on experience with violent criminals. I want them more than I want to cry about the police.

 

[Eidolon]

I want to see a link to a credible news source

 

[Bikenut]

-snip-

Link Removed

-snip-
Blues

I don't know about anyone else but "guns drawn" equals "gun threat" regardless of what clothing the gun bearer is wearing and at that point ... no matter how polite they may be they are not "asking"... they are telling me to co operate while threatening me with drawn guns.

What is all that talk on forums about "brandishing"? Well... take a good look at that photo because that is "brandishing". There is no doubting that those guns are being used in a threatening manner. The fact that it is the cops who are brandishing their guns in order to use the intimidation of a drawn gun to require co operation doesn't change the fact that it is still brandishing. And it being done by the cops doesn't detract from the message of "co operate or else" sent by those drawn guns.

Oh... and "low ready" may not be the same as the gun being pointed directly at a person but it still represents an imminent threat of grave bodily harm and/or death. The uniform behind the gun doesn't detract from that message either.

I'm not commenting on whether the cops have the authority to approach someone with guns drawn... I'm only commenting that when cops (or anyone!!!) approach with guns drawn like in the photo above they might be polite with the words they use but whatever they "ask" is not a request but is an order backed up with... the intimidation factor of guns drawn.

 

[Rhino]

I want to see a link to a credible news source

?Wall of Police? Shuts Highway to Nab Suspected Bank Robbers - ABC News

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Link Removed

 

[BluesStringer]

What I see are guns aimed in a "low-ready" position. Ask me for help in that situation and I'll help. Anything to get a perp. Point the gun at me directly and I hit the pedal. Pull me out of the car and throw me to the ground and I'll sue. Some of us have the $$ and legal means to turn the PD's lights out.

Blah blah. Sure thing Mr. Soros. Shut down the PD, the Sheriff's Dept. and whatever agency the guy in the yellow tie was from. Are you going out of your way to be as ridiculous as you can be to avoid answering the question about how much danger the cops put hundreds of innocents in? Humm?

Most people are empty threats who complain and have no ability to pursue anything. This is an interesting position as a number of posters who think the police are endangering the public are the same posters who state they'll open-up during a robbery at Denny's. Double standard.

Is this bu||sh|t directed at me? As far as I've seen, I'm the only one whose made a big deal about the cops endangering the public, and if I recall right, one other post was made in agreement with my take on that. Regardless, cite the statement by any "number" of posters that you claim are posting here about opening up at a Denny's. I say it's completely made-up tripe to deflect from a perfectly ridiculous stance you've locked yourself into. Prove me wrong.

Once again, long post not needed... if you ask and I agree then no one's rights are violated. But I won't be forced. There's no right or wrong in this. It's purely my opinion based on experience with violent criminals. I want them more than I want to cry about the police.

You want them more than you want other innocents to be safe from the idiots who put hundreds of them in danger. Let's at least state it accurately.

Blues

 

[BC1]

Are you going out of your way to be as ridiculous as you can be to avoid answering the question about how much danger the cops put hundreds of innocents in? Humm?

Is this bu||sh|t directed at me? As far as I've seen, I'm the only one whose made a big deal about the cops endangering the public, and if I recall right, one other post was made in agreement with my take on that.

Blues

The cops definitely put people in danger in many situations. But I'm not sure how one deals with such a problem either. I've asked people to comment on how they should have handled it. No one did. How does one conduct such an operation without being seen as violating rights and with complete safety to the public? That's a very small window and there's always someone who isn't gonna be happy.
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Regarding the Denny's thing... it wasn't directed at you or even Denny's in particular. Just an example. These threads are chock full of people who say they'll open-up during a robbery or will intervene to defend someone with little knowledge of the situation and less than good training. They will put customers in danger at a diner or convenient store. You read these threads. You see the knucklehead comments right? Some of the same people who believe the police created an unsafe public situation will endanger everyone trying to stop a robbery that's none of their business.
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Lastly, you read my comments. I'll say it a third time... if I choose to let the police look then no one violated my rights. But if I'm yanked out of my car without cause we have a problem.

 

[Eidolon]

?Wall of Police? Shuts Highway to Nab Suspected Bank Robbers - ABC News

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Link Removed

Thanks

Now I have to ask what was so special about a bank robbery (the money is insured folks) that it requires this response?

 

[Eidolon]

Not subservient at all. This entire country and everyone in it can go screw themselves. When it comes to my life I'm no one's friend for sure. If they pointed a gun at me there would be immediate consequences, like plowing right through them in the truck. No one will point a gun at me without consequences. I don't care who you are. I won't make any distinction. If they ask I'll help them. Point the gun and I'll run you down with prejudice..

You do know how that's going to end right?
.

For everyone who's critical, how should the police have handled this? Give the armchair quarterbacks a chance to expound.

Get a good description , put out an APB , tell the bank to call their adjuster

 

[BC1]

You do know how that's going to end right?

Yeah, I do. But when someone points a gun at me at a traffic stop I'm using the Hemi before I get capped. No one else is getting killed in my family.

 

[S&W645]

As so far the robbers had hurt no one, the police put the drivers more at risk than they should have. They could very well have diverted traffic down to one lane and checked car for car vehicles as they funneled through. But then again, this is MD where a Florida driver can be harassed just because they have a concealed weapons permit.

 

[Eidolon]

Yeah, I do. But when someone points a gun at me at a traffic stop I'm using the Hemi before I get capped. No one else is getting killed in my family.

There’s really not a nice way to say this so I’m sorry but that’s a really dumb way to look at it. The police are going car to car and you know why;there’s nothing in there that justifies trying to run them down. Especially not with your family in the car because they are going to open fire on all of you as soon as your intentions become apparent.

 

[Stan45]

I guess we do not have a 4th Amendment any more.

 

[BC1]

There’s really not a nice way to say this so I’m sorry but that’s a really dumb way to look at it. The police are going car to car and you know why;there’s nothing in there that justifies trying to run them down. Especially not with your family in the car because they are going to open fire on all of you as soon as your intentions become apparent.

When your family has been murdered you might think more like me.

 

[CharlesMorrison]

The back of your truck is different than the inside of your car. If I were driving a truck, I would not try to stop them from peering over into the bed. I'm not even sure I'd have a legal basis from which to object, as it's in public view.

It's amazing to me that you see cops in large numbers going car-to-car on a road-blocked freeway with M4's and shotguns at the low-ready position demanding to search your car as just the good and always-helpful squad of Officers Friendly "asking" you for your help. Gunpoint is always, every single time, coercion. You want my help? All ya gotta do is ask....nicely. You pull a weapon on me when I haven't done anything to provoke it, and could no more be confused for 3 young black perps than a plastic water bottle, you have disqualified yourself to be worthy of my voluntary help.

The only thing that makes this even a slightly tough call is that the perps were actually there in the vicinity, and the cops did apprehend them without anyone getting hurt. That's nice, but it's no different than Watertown where hundreds of LEO's locked down a whole neighborhood, ordered businesses closed, ordered people out of their homes while they illegally made entry without homeowners even there to supervise what was going on. Much of that done at gunpoint too. How you can't see that all the guns makes a world of difference between "helping" them and having your rights completely trampled by them is a mystery to me. I know what other people think doesn't have much bearing on what you think, but look around, you're alone on this one.



I'm as empathetic to your history of being a crime victim as anyone on this planet, BC, but the fact is in this situation, the perps didn't "have" anybody. I'm guessing they had a helicopter on 'em, or had street-level surveillance from the bank to the freeway on-ramp and knew the car was occupied only three times, and must've known it was in the group of cars they managed to corral with the road-block. How would you feel if you had a daughter driving the car right next to the perps when traffic came to a stand-still? Maybe a grandbaby or two in the car with her, and when the guys realize what's happening, they take your baby girl hostage along with her kids? Would you tell your daughter that that's how we "help" the police, by volunteering ourselves to be human shields?

We could come up with an infinite number of scenarios that could have happened, but what did happen is what did happen, three perps' rights and lives were protected while hundreds of innocent citizens' rights and lives were trampled and under threat.

You want to help them violate your rights, have at it, but don't ask me to, and don't ask me to understand why anyone else would. I simply don't understand.

Blues

Oh how soon they forget...
Link Removed
Look REAL close at the Humvee.
You will see a man, pointing his weapon directly at the person taking this photo...
You tell me.... Do these guys look like the good guys?!


Sent from behind Enemy Lines.

 

[Eidolon]

When your family has been murdered you might think more like me.

Maybe I wasn't clear in what I think is going to happen.

You start trying to run over the cops with your family in the car (that's correct right?) and they are going unload on you and your family is going to get caught in the crossfire and they're going to end up just as dead.

Do you not understand that?