There is a world of difference between expecting and accepting.
Just stoped for open carry in ihop
- Thread starter Llamaminimax
- Start date
There is a world of difference between expecting and accepting.
B
Bikenut
Guest
I wholeheartedly agree!
There is also a difference between standing up for yourself and bowing down to a bully... whether that bully is in or out of uniform.
I have to follow the law... and I demand, yes demand!, that LE and government also follow the law. If "we the people" do not demand those in authority follow the law then those in authority soon become the law.
Then why is it so hard to just comply and show the permit and be done with it. Again not all LEO'S are trained properly and are up to date on the law's that they are supposed to enforce and not all of the public want's them to enforce all the diffrent law's that are on the book's and either party can turn a situation that is not perfect into a situation that is life threatining for either party.
Bill
Bill
It's not hard at all. Things worth standing up for and defending are rarely easy to do. I won't hand my 4th Amendment rights away for the sake of convenience. Why not just make things REALLY easy and repeal the 4th Amendment? That would make police efforts much easier, wouldn't it? For the sake of the children and officer safety, of course.
Firefighterchen
OC for Tactical Advantage
sgtbill:286878 said:
The word "comply" seems so un-American
I do wonder though, SgtBill would you have complied during the Katrina Disaster and given up all your firearms? In another thread, B2 asked if we thought more states would turn to IL and a "no issue" stand on CCW if the National Conceal Carry Bill passed, would you comply to that as well and turn in your CCW?
It is interesting, you advise us to "just comply", and then tell us not all LEO's are trained properly. Sounds pretty dangerous to "just comply" with those individuals walking amongst us.
SouthernBoy
New member
Yes sir, very well stated.
SouthernBoy
New member
Oh yes by all means, we must "do it for the children".
B
Bikenut
Guest
Why is it so hard to refuse to obey illegal requests/demands from LE?
Could it be folks fall for that old lie of "If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear."? Well, if I have nothing to hide then why is the cop looking for something that isn't there?
I am far from anti LE. But I am a staunch believer in the simple idea that if I don't stand up for myself I will end up being walked on. And I don't like being walked on by anyone, in or out of uniform, nor do I have to put up with it.
I also believe that those who allow themselves to be intimidated only empower the bully to continue to intimidate.
Now about that excuse about not all LEO's being properly trained and up to date on the laws....
You have heard the phrase... "Ignorance of the law is no excuse." .... applied to us commoners who break the law ... right? Well, if it applies to me then I demand it also applies to the police, local units of government officials, State government officials, and Federal government officials too!!
I can't say that I disagree or agree with any of the post that are here on this subject I can only revert back to the position that I held for many years as a Police Firearms Instructor in one of the worst state's that ever had law's that pertained to firearms. New Jersey, I also carried a handgun for over 25 year's in this state as a LEO and and had the misfortune of running into people that had firearms and drugs on them at the same time when I was a Vice Squad Det. Sergeant doing investigations. I don't believe that all LEO'S are trained as well as they should be but on the other hand I know that all civilians are for the most part not trained AT ALL.
Bill
Bill
SouthernBoy
New member
Pretty general statement there don't you think pardner?
You seem to be insinuating that LEO's are better trained than civilians. That's fine. Then we should hold LEO's to a HIGHER standard than untrained civilians. Which gives me all the MORE reason to stand up to them if they insist on crossing the line into the territory of my rights protected by the 4th Amendment.
Firefighterchen
OC for Tactical Advantage
sgtbill:287249 said:
It makes sense now...you advise based off of New Jersey. *shakes head* they don't allow hollow points there either right? Do you advise against those as well?
SouthernBoy:287252 said:
I ask again, who is perpetuating this mentality of us vs them...Its okay for "them" to generalize "us"....but if we do it back we are anti cop (does that make them anti civilian? I'm changing my stance, I am not anti cop, I'm anti anti civilian).
»
No, but if a police officer stops you and wants you to unload your gun and show him your ammo, why would it be so hard to simply comply?
(That was sarcasm).
BravoSierra2012
New member
Have you guys seen the video where the guy goes into a police station asking how to file a complaint, and then gets arrested for refusing to tell where he lives or show id?
Not sure what the eventual outcome of that was, but what if there was no camera around?
Regardless of the outcome, I'll bet the guy's life turned to * for a good while. Bail, legal fees, etc etc.
What if the officer has no right to detain but it is just your word against the officer's?
You're screwed, that's what.
Not saying it is right, but it is what it is. Scary stuff.
This has been a good thread.
I think probably the reason more people don't exercise their rights is that we're all brainwashed from childhood to do what the policeman says.
Not sure what the eventual outcome of that was, but what if there was no camera around?
Regardless of the outcome, I'll bet the guy's life turned to * for a good while. Bail, legal fees, etc etc.
What if the officer has no right to detain but it is just your word against the officer's?
You're screwed, that's what.
Not saying it is right, but it is what it is. Scary stuff.
This has been a good thread.
I think probably the reason more people don't exercise their rights is that we're all brainwashed from childhood to do what the policeman says.
chieftmc
New member
chieftmc
New member
chieftmc
New member
BravoSierra2012
New member
The stations around where I am have posted and strict signs of no firearms. Easy way to save them gas of having to drive you to jail.
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