is .380 enough gun?

[bwg3]

Weather it is big enough or not the gun u carry is better than the one in the case. That being said I have had a 380 for a long time and it has served me well for a brush better gun and I carry a lot of different calibers for different tasks but some people don't like the bigger calibers and would rather see them with a 380 as oppose to nothing

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[Oldgrunt]

Congratulations on enjoying your little pea-shooter a.k.a. .380. What will you do on that day a dedicated terrorist cell high PCP declares jihad on you and your loved ones? When those .380 rounds do all the damage of a pillow fight and you see the blood of all those you hold dear flowing along the sidewalk like rivers of wine, then you'll wish you had a .45.

That is when I will pull my 1911 from my shoulder holster and tend to business. But, in the mean time, the .380 will do on occasions where another weapon might be too conspicuous and cause undue problems. After all, didn't James Bond make it through all of his escapades using a PPK .380? And the 1911 is so bulky in a custom made tux!

 

[therewolf]

Take that "peashooter", shoot it at
a 50 gallon drum.
Did it penetrate both sides?
'Nuff said.

 

[bwg3]

Ya but I am not defending aginst them ever dangerous 50 gallon drums

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[cluznar]

A man stopped an intruder dead in his tracks with one shot from a .380. A guy was walking through a field when a wild boar attacked him, he downed it with one shot from his .380. A man came home to find a black bear had broken in his house, one shot to the head with his.380 killed it. YES, a .380 is enough gun. I used to carry a .380 and trusted it. But I have since sold it and now have two .32 acp guns that I use for home defense/carry.
:dirol:

 

[bofh]

A man stopped an intruder dead in his tracks with one shot from a .380. A guy was walking through a field when a wild boar attacked him, he downed it with one shot from his .380. A man came home to find a black bear had broken in his house, one shot to the head with his.380 killed it. YES, a .380 is enough gun. I used to carry a .380 and trusted it. But I have since sold it and now have two .32 acp guns that I use for home defense/carry.
:dirol:

Any source for your stories or are they just made up?

 

[BluesStringer]

A man stopped an intruder dead in his tracks with one shot from a .380. A guy was walking through a field when a wild boar attacked him, he downed it with one shot from his .380. A man came home to find a black bear had broken in his house, one shot to the head with his.380 killed it. YES, a .380 is enough gun. I used to carry a .380 and trusted it. But I have since sold it and now have two .32 acp guns that I use for home defense/carry.
:dirol:

Any source for your stories or are they just made up?

His source is another gun forum. He's been spreading that fantasy since he got here, and I finally had enough of it a little more than a year after he got here:

I carry a Bersa Thunder .380 and know it will do the job. .380 is fast becoming very popular as a carry gun. I believe the fact that people have used it to kill coyote, wild boar and bear have made others realize the .380 will do the job. The majority of America are not going to carry a .40 S&W or a .45 acp. Most people want something easily concealed and powerful enough to do the job yet not hard to shoot.

A poster on the Link Removed says he "knows" somebody that killed a bear with a .380, and this guy claims it as a "fact" to justify his obsession with under-powered, ballistically-challenged rounds.

Newsflash genius: Killing a young adult black bear with two rounds from a .380 could only be accomplished by the luckiest two shots in the history of history. Either that, or someone else on the Bersa Forums besides you is so obsessed with his ignorant and false sense of security that he thinks the .380 is the magic round that can stop all comers no matter the size (mass), thickness of skin and/or bone (skull) or proximity of target that is armed with claws that could open your head like a cantaloupe with one swipe.

And the "majority" of Americans don't carry a .380. Some do, and that's fine with me, but good grief, your constant exaggerations about how your .380 or .32 will "do the job" on basically any species that draws breath is just ridiculous blather that proves you don't know the first thing about the ballistic profiles of the weapons you choose to carry.

Blues

And that exchange happened more than two years ago now.

There's a sad (but true) current story out of SC that some would say is the perfect illustrative metaphor for the inadequate brain-power and perfectly-adequate firepower at point-blank range of those who are stupid enough to rely exclusively on the .380 round for combat against other human beings:

New Year's Link Removed:

CHEROKEE COUNTY, S.C. — A Gaffney man was killed while playing with a gun at his house New Year’s Eve.

Witnesses say Tezlar Wayne Ross, 20, and three other people were in his bedroom looking at a .380 handgun when he reportedly took the clip out of the gun and placed it to his head joking with the others when it discharged.

Ross was pronounced dead at the scene.

“This is certainly a tragic way to end the year. Guns are not toys and this is an example of what happens when they are treated as such and not respected. My heart breaks for this family,” Cherokee County Coroner Dennis Fowler said.

Yes, the .380 round that young Mr. Ross discharged into his own head "did the job," but for those thinking that a cast iron frying pan swung with less-than-full-force to the side of Mr. Ross' head by any relatively healthy adult, also at point-blank range BTW, wouldn't have likewise "done the job," that is what I mean when I say the story is a metaphor for people who lack brain-power. There are air-guns that fire .17 caliber pellets that could've "done the job" at point-blank range just as "effectively."

The question of the OP has to do with ballistics, period. The .380 round has enough power to be considered "deadly," but out of all the handgun rounds that one might consider carrying, at best it only exceeds .22 LR, .25 and (maybe) .32 caliber rounds in ballistic profiling. That leaves a wide variety of handguns and rounds that are still reasonably easily concealable with much more energy delivered to the target at a longer distance than the .380 even has the potential to deliver under optimal circumstances.

Choose based on ballistics, not on the ease or comfort of concealment.

Blues

 

[therewolf]

Ya but I am not defending aginst them ever dangerous 50 gallon drums

Well, I guess you're not defending against being obtuse, either. Any round which will penetrate

both sides of a 50 gallon drum should get the job done, at SD ranges.

BTW, the hot-poo 45ACP round? Made a nice dent, but didn't even penetrate the first

side of the drum. These are tests I have personally made at a private range. But don't

do anything singular, like taking somebody's word for it. Try it on an empty 50 gallon

drum at your range. But if you do, please have the decency to post you verified my

results. Until then, I went to all this trouble because I'm a liar...

 

[Happypuppy]

I really don't like the caliber wars as its a lot of conjecture and subjective ( at best ) data.

So read this. It was done in 2002 when the FBI last looked at calibers by examination of real data involving LEOs.

In a nutshell it seems to not really matter. It's all placement. Add to that handguns are pretty ineffective overall.

http://www.rrmemphis.com/myth.pdf


Someday. That’s a dangerous word. It’s really just a code for ‘never’.

 

[bwg3]

No one is calling you a liar but over penetration can get a person in as much trouble as not stopping the threat and that is why most ddicated self deffence round are made to have a rapid expansion for a large wound track and moderate penetration

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[kramden]

Also consider the ammo you're using. I purposely order some Underwood Fracturing ammo. 1240 fps. for my wifes S&W Bodyguard. The load fired in a .380 can make quite a difference.

 

[joepilot]

Just joined this forum, so I haven't read this entire, very long thread. Hopefully, my comments won't be too redundant. I think the caliber of the pistol depends to a great extent on the carrier/shooter. Carrying a .380 is better than not carrying at all, so if the .380 is the largest caliber that the carrier/shooter is comfortable and proficient with, then it's good enough. My wife currently carries a .380, but as she gains experience and proficiency, she may very well move up to 9mm. I am happy that she carries the .380 for now, since I'd rather have her carry something than nothing. So, the bottom line is, as usual, different strokes for different folks. Whatever works best for the person is what they should carry.

 

[bofh]

Also consider the ammo you're using. I purposely order some Underwood Fracturing ammo. 1240 fps. for my wifes S&W Bodyguard. The load fired in a .380 can make quite a difference.

From Underwood:

Caliber: 380 ACP
Bullet Weight: 75 Grains
Bullet Style: Lehigh Defense CF
Case Type: Ducta-Bright 7a Nickel Plated Brass
Ballistics Information:
Muzzle Velocity: 1240 fps
Muzzle Energy: 256 ft. lbs.
Penetration Min (in) Base: 10
Penetration Min (in) Petals: 7.5
Expansion Min (in) 5.5

This round under-penetrates. The "expansion" is related to the spread of the individual fragments and not to the expansion of a single projectile.

 

[kramden]

Underwood makes some excellent personal defense ammo for the .380. Over 1200 F.P.S. fracturing rounds. Check it out on u-tube.

 

[Wild Dog]

If you want to put your life at risk and carry the equivalent of a low, power bb gun then go ahead carry a .380, sure, you won't be able to protect your family and will only be able to watch them die, but hey at least you were comfortable. Or, you can carry a .45, .357, 10mm, .454 casull, etc., and put down any dirtbag looking to cause you grief.

 

[bofh]

Underwood makes some excellent personal defense ammo for the .380. Over 1200 F.P.S. fracturing rounds. Check it out on u-tube.

I cited the data published by Underwood on the .380 fracturing round (with link). According to the manufacturer, this ammo underperforms. If you have any video links please post them. Note that test barrel length plays a significant role in accelerating the projectile. See ShootingTheBull410's .380 ACP Ammo Quest.

I used to carry Speer Gold Dot .380 ACP 90 gr. in my Taurus TCP, until I retired this gun from carry duty. This round slightly underperforms as well. Minimum penetration is at 11.25 inches in bare gel and 10 inches in denim-covered gel, when fired from the 2.8-inch barrel with 944 fps (i.e. 178 ft-lb energy and 12.1 ft-lb/s momentum).

 

[kramden]

Just about every thug carrys a 380. If you watch Crime 360 or first 48, you will see they die with 380 in body mass shots.

Frankly when I watch the "Murder Channels" I am amazed at the number of murders committed with a .22. Not to mention a .380.

 

[bwg3]

I have to say some of these guys think they are going to have to defend them self from armor clad paramilitary type bad guy when it more likely to be a drugy trying to steal from u or some one trying to home invasion and most like not wherein body armor or battle helmet

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[happypuppy01]

I have to say some of these guys think they are going to have to defend them self from armor clad paramilitary type bad guy when it more likely to be a drugy trying to steal from u or some one trying to home invasion and most like not wherein body armor or battle helmet

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True my impressions as well. In my state less than half with a permission slip actually carry. That number decreases further on how often they carry.

I have a theory that so far has been proving to be true. The larger the carry weapon the less likely it is to be carried.

I have tired carrying the semi compacts ( Glock 19 size )!down to small 9 ( Kahr cm9 and shield )

I just find myself coming up with reasons I didn't need to carry it.

So I gave up and went with what I will carry. In my case a pocket carry and I carry it every day.

John Lott has stats on his website and it's interesting.

Just deploying a handgun 95% BG will run

So just finding something that one will carry all the time is far and away the most important factor.

The argument that it's a BB gun , pea shoot is silly. If one was to deploy and have to use a 357 revolver or a 380 it really does not matter if one does not hit the target to stop the BG. The 12 " of penetration is in the range of acceptable so the 380 is fine

I am not a LEO. I don't have to cuff the person. I just have to run far enough away and then call 911.

I understand if one is a LEO. it's the job and carrying a OWB Glock 17 with a half dozen mags may well be reasonable.

So unless your the 1 in whatever number that always carry your Glock 19 everywhere realize that the people you rip into for carrying pocket .32 to 380s that always carry them and not that dumb. They read the stats ... And know the most important thing is to have a gun ... no not the one at home in the safe either .


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[bwg3]

Well said

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