Inform the officer or not when concealed carry?

[joelevi]

My problem with bolded...is that you are saying anybody who does not inform is not be cooperative...

Although I can see how one could get that impression it's not what I intended. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to clarify!

From a LEO point-of-view, if you don't answer their questions (even if not required by law to do so) you are being "uncooperative".

From a legal perspective, if you don't answer some of their questions (because you're not legally required to do so) you're being "wise".

- Joe Levi, Link Removed

 

[Montducati]

CT law does not require you to notify the officer. That is the central point being discussed here - whether or not notification is a good idea. There are many valid points on both sides of the discussion.

CT law requires that you obtain the permit in order to take a pistol anywhere except to your home or your place of business directly from the point of purchase. And just to obtain that certificate you have to go 90% of the way through the permit process; for another few bucks i strongly recommend getting the permit. At least then you can take your pistol to a range and learn how (or practice) to shoot it. And heavens - you might want to buy another. What a ridiculous law that would allow you to buy a handgun but forbid you to actually practice with it - but that's what we have until we get it changed.

Of course, under Federal law you are allowed to transport your unloaded, cased pistol out of state to a place you are legally entitled to possess it.

Thanks for the welcome, I've owned my pistols since 1995, was licensed in NY and completed my application for my CT license which I should have in about 3-4 weeks.

 

[navy32man]

I know a few LEO and all of them have said they want to be inform up front that you have a CCW permit. This is what LEO would like for you to do when you’re pulled over; keep both hands on the steering wheel and when the LEO asks for your driver’s license, registration and proof of insurance inform the officer that you're a concealed weapon permit holder currently in possession of a firearm and wait for further instructions. Most will ask you where you weapon is currently located. They all said they will ask you not to remove it from its location. There however are states that the LEO can ask you for your weapon and can unload it during the stop.
They also said, once informed about the permit they know they are dealing with a law abiding citizen.
Now if you don’t inform them that you have a permit and they see the weapon they are no longer going to be listening to anything you have to say and will treat you like a criminal, count on looking down the barrel of their weapon and being spread eagle on the pavement with officers on top of you placing you in cuffs. Most states CCW permits are not linked to you drivers license. So they don’t know unless you tell them.
All in all they are only doing their job. As we don't know which LEO are the very few bad ones, they don't know who they are pulling over nor do they know if that will be the last traffic stop they will ever make.
Common courtesy goes a long way.
I am informing them right up front just to be safe plus it snows in Minnesota and I don’t want to be laying on the street in the snow for nothing.
Jesse Pippin,
Master Chief, US Navy

 

[Durendal]

Arkansas does not have a requirement to inform unless the officer specifically requests your CHL. That being said, I was stopped Saturday night at a DUI checkpoint on a back road. I saw the little lights they had on the ground, so I slowed down and moved to the oncoming lane, thinking this was an accident or a crime scene or who knows what. Of course they flipped out because I moved into the oncoming lane, even though no one was coming. Once I explained why I did that, they asked for my license. I produced my license and CHL, and told the officer where my pistol was. His response was "you don't touch yours and I won't touch mine." He looked at me, then my license, then handed me both and wished me a safe night. It was like night and day before and after I handed him my permit. Just before he let me go, he asked me if I had any drinks tonight, almost in passing. I said nope, that's a quick trip to jail.

The choice, when you have one, really is a balance between exercising your rights and giving them courtesy. To each his own, but I'm telling the officer every time.:happy:

 

[torontogunguy]

Like I say, I have never had anything but the most positive of experiences when I hand my CHL/CHP over with my ID and keep my hands on the wheel. On occasion I will even turn the inside light on before the officer gets out of his car. The courtesy is well appreciated and Lord knows our LEO's have enough stress during a stop, any stop.

I have yet to have anything remotely looking like a negative experience by declaring my CHL/CHP's up front.

And I again remind everyone, including LEO's of all kinds and positions, when moving across a border (Canada/Mexico) in EITHER direction, declaration of firearms, ammunition and explosives is a MUST and you may NOT be carrying. It MUST be locked up and unloaded according the the law of the country you are entering. In either direction.

 

[kelcarry]

Hey guys: Isn't this really a no-brainer. You have been given a very serious responsibility that separates you from many of your fellow citizens. Arguments like "my state does not require" does not mean that "my state says I shouldn't". Be responsible and cooperate with the police in every way you can. Whether you are CC at the time or not, just give him the CCWP card. Don't make this into some kind of conspiracy by an out of control LEO.

 

[glockerocker]

Here's an opinion from the other side. I was a LEO for 28 years in Tampa. Many times I stopped someone who told me they had a weapon in the car...voluntarily. I asked them where it was, usually in a glove compartment or console (legal in Fla without a permit). I thanked them for telling me and told them just to leave it where it was. If possible, they got a warning, not a ticket.

A few of my buddies were shot on traffic stops. One was shot the day I retired. The ones who will shoot you will never tell you voluntarily they have a weapon on board.

The drivers who had a real problem were the ones who had a firearm in their glove compartment and reached in to get their registration and insurance info without saying anything, making me go into "red" mode when I saw them reaching for the papers next to the gun. More than once they got a .357 or 9mm (depending on what year) stuck in their ear with some loud expletives. Now retired, if I get stopped, I'll let the officer know I have a firearm on board and where it is. Some states require it, mine doesn't, but in my opinion if you are carrying legally with or without a permit, you will have nothing to worry about, and the cop will appreciate the heads up. Just my $.02.

Elliot

 

[bbarton713]

If you have a CWP in SC and are carrying in the vehicle you are required to tell the officer when they ask for your license. If it is in your glove box or console you are not required to let them know unless the papers you require are in that location.

However, if you're carrying legally I'm not sure why you wouldn't want to tell them up front. You are on the same team and I know if was a LEO I would appreciate your tact.

 

[Daugherty16]

+1

Here's an opinion from the other side. I was a LEO for 28 years in Tampa. Many times I stopped someone who told me they had a weapon in the car...voluntarily. I asked them where it was, usually in a glove compartment or console (legal in Fla without a permit). I thanked them for telling me and told them just to leave it where it was. If possible, they got a warning, not a ticket.

A few of my buddies were shot on traffic stops. One was shot the day I retired. The ones who will shoot you will never tell you voluntarily they have a weapon on board.

The drivers who had a real problem were the ones who had a firearm in their glove compartment and reached in to get their registration and insurance info without saying anything, making me go into "red" mode when I saw them reaching for the papers next to the gun. More than once they got a .357 or 9mm (depending on what year) stuck in their ear with some loud expletives. Now retired, if I get stopped, I'll let the officer know I have a firearm on board and where it is. Some states require it, mine doesn't, but in my opinion if you are carrying legally with or without a permit, you will have nothing to worry about, and the cop will appreciate the heads up. Just my $.02.

Elliot

Glockrocker - thank you for this thoughtful post. There is obviously a substantial division of thinking on this topic, and i've even started similar threads before, specifically asking for law enforcement perspective. Personally, i think it makes all the sense in the world to advise and i can't really see a downside. A lot of folks disagree, and make good points in their reasoning.

But your post really drives home a couple thoughts i had but couldn't articulate very well, and frankly my opinions don't carry anything like the weight of your actual experience. Hope your buddies recovered.

 

[torontogunguy]

Here is what I have been trying to get across, in a nutshell, and well said, right from the horse's mouth. I have had a LEO friend come very close to putting a round into someone's ear on a DUI stop for just the reasons listed below and it was only by the grace of God that it did not happen. Phil had to take a week off work to recover from the trauma. Now how much easier would it have been if the moronic driver had, despite being under the influence, was 'ingrained' to announce the presence and location of his firearm? Phil had taken up the slack on the trigger and was a hair from taking out a guy who was DUI. To add to the story, a milk store had just been robbed by a perp with the exact same pistola that the moron displayed when he opened his glove box. Phil said that had the moron started to flop onto his side while leaning over it would have been a pine box and Phil would probably not be in law enforcement. THAT was 20 years ago and he, I am sure, still relives it regularly. So, as a matter of "habit" I keep one of my permits next to my D/L and hand it over to the LEO if stopped under any circumstances, voluntary or otherwise.

Here's an opinion from the other side. I was a LEO for 28 years in Tampa. Many times I stopped someone who told me they had a weapon in the car...voluntarily. I asked them where it was, usually in a glove compartment or console (legal in Fla without a permit). I thanked them for telling me and told them just to leave it where it was. If possible, they got a warning, not a ticket.

A few of my buddies were shot on traffic stops. One was shot the day I retired. The ones who will shoot you will never tell you voluntarily they have a weapon on board.

The drivers who had a real problem were the ones who had a firearm in their glove compartment and reached in to get their registration and insurance info without saying anything, making me go into "red" mode when I saw them reaching for the papers next to the gun. More than once they got a .357 or 9mm (depending on what year) stuck in their ear with some loud expletives. Now retired, if I get stopped, I'll let the officer know I have a firearm on board and where it is. Some states require it, mine doesn't, but in my opinion if you are carrying legally with or without a permit, you will have nothing to worry about, and the cop will appreciate the heads up. Just my $.02.

Elliot

 

[glockerocker]

Thanks all for the thoughtful, constructive posts on this very important subject.

Ref Torontogunguy's post about going into other countries with firearms. He's right on. In 2002 my wife and I decided to take our small motorhome to Alaska for a month, driving cross country and entering Canada thru Coutts. I did research on the firearms laws beforehand thru the Canada Firearms Centre, easily accessed on the internet. I downloaded the Firearms form and had if filled out before I entered Canada. I also abided by their rules on NO handguns. I left them at home. But, since I was going to be fishing and camping in some out of the way places, I purchased a Mossberg .12 gauge pump shotgun to take with me, due to bears and other possible problems.

On the form it asks why you want to possess a weapon in Canada and I checked the box "Wildlife Protection." Upon entering Canada I had the form filled out and presented it to the first Canadian customs agent I met. After approx. 45 mins of background checking, more forms to fill out, and payment of $35 US back then, I received a copy of the paperwork with a stamp. Another Customs agent said he needed to check my weapon. He came into my RV where I had a lock on the shotgun, and ammo on the other side of the coach. He measured the barrel, (has to be at least 18") and not a semi-auto. He said "you don't need to keep it locked and unloaded when you travel and have a nice day." A very professional, courteous young agent.

Every time I went thru a checkpoint on the Canadian side, a few times in and out of Alaska/Yukon, etc I would present the permit, my passport, and DL immediately. The Customs Officers always were pleasant, looked at them and told me to have a safe trip. Obviously, after going thru the permit process, they thought I was not a threat. Other motorists were held up for searches, etc.

While in Alaska, there were 4 bear attacks, one in an area where I went fishing, Soldotna, two days after I was there. Carrying a firearm is recommended while fishing or wandering thru the back country.

 

[rayven]

Hey guys: Isn't this really a no-brainer. You have been given a very serious responsibility that separates you from many of your fellow citizens. Arguments like "my state does not require" does not mean that "my state says I shouldn't". Be responsible and cooperate with the police in every way you can. Whether you are CC at the time or not, just give him the CCWP card. Don't make this into some kind of conspiracy by an out of control LEO.

I also have a responsibility to ensure the freedoms that I and the rest of my fellow citizens currently enjoy. "Cooperating with the police in every way you can" can be legally disastrous, since anything you can can and most certainly will be used against you.

That being said, in states where it isn't legally required to inform an officer, the individual carrying a firearm should weigh the pros and cons for themselves and act accordingly. For me, my state doesn't require me to inform a cop that I have a weapon. In my local area, I may or may not inform depending on the situation. In Philadelphia, there is absolutely no way in hell I would ever inform, since Philly cops are well known to be anti-gun. It all goes along with situational awareness that we, as law-abiding citizens with firearms, should always keep in play.

The LEO may very well want to know up front if I have a weapon, but I also don't want to have the encounter with the LEO. If he is refusing me my courtesy to not have the encounter in the first place, I reserve the right to refuse him the courtesy of letting him know I'm carrying. I'm much more for individual freedoms for everyone than I am for "making nice".

But again, in the end, each and every one of us has to decide how to act / what to do in any situation. Just be safe, know your surroundings, and everything should work out alright.

P.S. I haven't been given a responsibility. I've taken it by exercising my absolute right. I've been given nothing.

 

[amazonrq]

I agree with you, it's a respect thing. In Washington State , where I live, I have had them ask me if I have anything in my pu or on my person that they don't want to deal with, LOL.:sarcastic:

 

[torontogunguy]

Just remember that you may have the right to hunt bear and choose not to - but that doesn't mean the bear isn't going to bite you in the arse. I tend to give much leeway and courtesy to anything that has sharp teeth, even if I have the right not to.

 

[rock919]

I do not think it matters. I live in Georgia. I have had problems where police officers came to where I live and I told them I have a weapon. They understood perfectly. I made a report to a judge and he told me he also had a license to carry. The fact is why should you hide it. It takes you long enough to get it. If you do nothing wrong you should give the officer the benefit of knowing your position. I would not wave the weapon around like it was a toy. You recieved your license for a reason and being you are a civilian and want to recpect the law do what you feel is the right thing.

 

[rock919]

I do not think it matters. I live in Georgia. I have had problems where police officers came to where I live and I told them I have a weapon. They understood perfectly. I made a report to a judge and he told me he also had a license to carry. The fact is why should you hide it. It takes you long enough to get it. If you do nothing wrong you should give the officer the benefit of knowing your position. I would not wave the weapon around like it was a toy. You recieved your license for a reason and being you are a civilian and want to recpect the law do what you feel is the right thing.

That is how I feel. I hope this helps.

 

[kelcarry]

Hey rock919: I think if you polled this forum, there would be an overwhelming response in favor of informing the LEO of your CCWP, whether you have your weapon or not. IN SC, if you do have your CCW, you MUST inform. It's a shame that there is some distrust in our LEOs but it just seems prudent for anyone with a CCWP to attach it to their driver's license and submit together whenever there is a request for ID from an LEO. Hey--to each his own--at least we agree on this.

 

[torontogunguy]

Hey rock919: I think if you polled this forum, there would be an overwhelming response in favor of informing the LEO of your CCWP, whether you have your weapon or not. IN SC, if you do have your CCW, you MUST inform. It's a shame that there is some distrust in our LEOs but it just seems prudent for anyone with a CCWP to attach it to their driver's license and submit together whenever there is a request for ID from an LEO. Hey--to each his own--at least we agree on this.

It is much more than a common courtesy to inform, whether carrying or not. LEO's have a stress filled job as it stands and handing over your CWP along with your driver's license and ownership is simply stating "I hold you in high regard and want you to know that i have a permit to carry concealed". together with "I am not carrying nor do I have a weapon in the car at this time, etc." shows tremendous courtesy and respect AND more than anything else it is appreciated as a tension breaker these days. Very often it will buy you a warning or a friendly chat about the weather or whatever instead of a whopper infraction ticket.

I have never, ever had it go the other way, even when carrying and stopped (did not have to tell). "I am carrying and here is my permit and how would you like to handle it". And IF the LEO wants to see the gun ask HIM to remove it from your person or the glove box with due respect as you do not want any fumbles from nerves, right?

Just my two cents worth yet again. Handing over the CWP along with your other papers immediately tells the LEO that you have been input into the system and are a law abiding and upstanding citizen and reduces the tension. Ever wonder why you are approached from behind the centre post of the car? It's to help put something between you and any weapon that may be presented. And in a two many stop ever wonder why the other LEO approaches from the OTHER side and keeps that very same post or rear quarter panel between you and he/she? Same idea. That should really give you a hint as to the tension that is either natural or is taught.

A little respect and stress reduction can go a long way.

And a reminder. DO NOT carry where you are not supposed to. NOTHING will help you out of that situation. And when crossing a border you MUST declare firearms, ammunition, explosives and BANANAS.

I crossed into the states from Canada a year ago and presented my CWP with my US Passport and was waved through while the guy in front of me, who had been eating a banana had his car stripped and was made to dump everything into the garbage from his cooler (I assume.... cuz that's where he was sent). Remember, guns ok. Bananas NOT ok.

 

[kelcarry]

Hey torontogunguy: Those bananas can really kill you! I remember once when my in laws were coming back from vacation in Virgin Islands and my mother-in-law was asked about her luggage at customs and my father-in-law said something like "they are not really interested in your luggage dear". Guess what happened next?

 

[osmosis]

Interesting responses. Please remember that if you are an outstanding citizen, firearm possession is a constitutional right and not a privilege.

An acquaintance announced he had a legal gun when getting pulled over for speeding in NH, he was asked to step out of the car an unload his firearm.

Some LEO's that over react to seeing a gun that one is 100% legal to carry, so if its a speeding ticket, etc. why open it to something else by stating you have a gun?? I realize that in some states this is a requirement, however, in states were it is not - nobody needs to know.

As to keeping a gun in the glove boxes - that is absolutely stupid and should be illegal in all states.