I mildly brandished last night

[father-of-three]

I find that even when I carry a gun, I often have to think and act like I am not carrying a gun.

Just be careful what your state defines and "brandishing."

 

[golddigger14s]

OP doesn't post his location, so I don't know if he can OC. That's what I do so it doesn't even progress that far. Glad it turned out well.

 

[Cotillion]

OP doesn't post his location, so I don't know if he can OC. That's what I do so it doesn't even progress that far. Glad it turned out well.

Oregon, and I've been strongly considering doing a 50/50 split between OC and cc

 

[Firefighterchen]

Your right, I made up the "about 90%" figure on the spot. The actual figure is 92%.

"Fact: Of the 2,500,000 times citizens use their guns to defend themselves every year, 92% merely brandish their gun or fire a warning shot to scare off their attackers."

Gun Facts Version 3.2 Page 36
Copyright 2002,
http://www.keepandbeararms.com/images/gunfacts.pdf

The data on this page has footnoted sources.

No wonder liberals are so quick to ban guns, because in 92% of the cases, gun owners use guns improperly and illegally. A few big issues come to mind when thinking about brandishing:
1. Never point a gun at something you do not intend to destroy.
2. Escalating the level of force used in a situation is a quick way to end up dead or in jail.
3. Menacing- depending on the state, it can range from a misdemeanor to a felony. In Colorado, if you verbally threaten somebody, or physically threaten them (aka brandish), you will be put in jail.
4. A gun is not a toy to wave around to get what you want. It is a tool to be used when all other options have run out and your death is presumed to be imminent and unavoidable without firing your gun.

I haven't seen any liberals using that statistic for their gun banning...how did you connect those two dots?

As for your 4 points.

1. Correct, that is one of the safety rules of firearms.
2. If you can not leave, and there is no chance of de escalating, you better escalate your agression above your attacker or you will end up dead or in the hospital.
3 Correct, know your local laws.
4. Who is calling a gun a toy? Who is saying to wave it around?

I would like some further explanation on those points if you would.

 

[TekGreg]

Wait - what?

cmhbob, this was not said with swagger or attitude, it was a straightforward statement meant to restate his recent decision. It also re-affirmed the FACT that I was willing to use lethal force while I removed the safety, placed my finger on the trigger and aimed for his center of mass. I simply wanted him to SERIOUSLY rethink his decision, as some BGs think their targets will not use the weapons they carry.

"Go ahead, make my day" insinuates you enjoy killing people, and "Feeling lucky, punk?" can infer that you wish to engage in a confrontation. These are the types of challenging or ambiguous lines I was referring to in my original post. My apologies to Clint Eastwood, those were just the first two that happened to pop into my head.

 

[TekGreg]

Being threatened is assault. Telling someone you are going to harm them is assault. After you physically touch them, thats battery. As a paramedic, if i ask someone if I can start an IV and they say no, I can not say, "I am going to start an IV anyways." That is assault. If I grab them and start the IV, that is battery.

Don't assume anything about the other poster's situation, you weren't there. Do you find it at all hypocritical that you would brandish a firearm against people just following you, but wouldn't against someone who was threatening violence? How would you feel if your peers thought you deserved to have those people follow you?

I do not feel you did anything wrong in your situation, and I don't feel the other poster did anything wrong either (except the CCW charge for not having his permit on his person). The courts decided that as well.

Firefighterchen has been critical of me and some of my posts and has made me re-post to clarify some things because he has called me on the carpet. However, I have an immense amount of respect for him because the man KNOWS what he is talking about!

"Assault" is talking, yelling, swearing, sounds, cat calls, whistles or any attention directed at you that you do not desire and/or that you find offensive. "Battery" is defined as "offensive touching," which means hitting, pinching, poking, tickling, flicking up to and including getting hit with a baseball bat: It is any "touch" of any hand, foot or object that you do not like or don't want to happen.

And before everyone starts with the "what ifs," yes, the drunk babbling at you on the corner is committing assault, it's just not enough to get him arrested. However, it could be the start of a chain of charges if you move away and he starts t follow you (harassment), grabs your shoulder (battery), and then begs for money (panhandling). It depends on the totality of the circumstances.

Which brings us back to Cotillion and his situation. First off, Cotillion, if you're still reading this, thank you for posting it for us to learn from and taking the fusillade of Monday-morning quarterbacking from all of us. The reality is that we discuss laws and scenarios on the forums, we practice training in sterile ranges with full lighting and ranges neatly marked, we never have innocent civilians cluttering up are practice field and when it comes time to apply what we have talked about and shot paper targets for and taken classes for and memorized laws for, we realize that there are many, many holes in our training! It's no one's fault - there is simply no way to cover in training every possibility that could happen on the street nor every reaction of a BG, civilian, store clerk or police officer. Real life is much faster than training and most people do much more wrong than Cotillion. Many never learn from their real life experiences - Cotillion did. Most people walk around completely oblivious to their surroundings and would have never spotted the BGs at the store - Cotillion did. And Cotillion doesn't need to apply the laws of the other 49 states, Guam or Puerto Rico, just his.

We're supposed to be here to learn and support each other. It's a fine line between doing a critique of Cotillion's actions and criticizing Cotillion personally. If every person that posts is hoisted upon his petard, we will find ourselves in short supply of experiences from which we can learn, and, quite frankly, I would appreciate more of these less-than-perfect accounts to find out what happens to people in the real world right her in the U.S. of A. instead of being told what SHOULD happen if and when it does by some expert in a magazine. So, for those of you that have a spiritual bent, I will end with the mantra I frequently beat myself over the head with:
“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." Matthew 7:1-2

 

[Deserteagle]

I haven't seen any liberals using that statistic for their gun banning...how did you connect those two dots?

As for your 4 points.

1. Correct, that is one of the safety rules of firearms.
2. If you can not leave, and there is no chance of de escalating, you better escalate your agression above your attacker or you will end up dead or in the hospital.
3 Correct, know your local laws.
4. Who is calling a gun a toy? Who is saying to wave it around?

I would like some further explanation on those points if you would.

Since you only have issues with numbers 2 and 4:
2. You are correct, I should have expanded that point. When all other options have run out and running away is not possible either, then escalating or matching the amount of force with your gun is your only option to stay alive. However, there is no need to bring a gun to a fist fight especially when there is still an opportunity to run away and call 911 rather than be the tougher guy who wont back down by pulling out a gun.
4. It is never acceptable (at least in my state) to threaten lethal force. Pointing or waving a gun at somebody to get want is not okay. The only time it leaves a holster is when you are justified in using lethal force which also implies you have no other options and are facing death.

 

[Cotillion]

Thanks Greg. Obviously I made mistakes as I openly admitted several times, I just don't understand why it can't be discussed positively like with some people then you get others coming in basically calling everyone an F-ING retard or other uncalled for comments. Nobody is perfect and that's what these threads are for, to share. I've thought about deleting this app several times as I'm sure other people do.

 

[B2Tall]

After thinking about this scenario, I've come to the conclusion that my first move would have been to cross the street to the other side. If the guys also crossed the street then I would force their hand by stepping to the side and waiting for them to pass. I pocket-carry almost exclusively (usually an LCP or LCR .357) and would have just stood there with my hands in my pocket (i.e. gun in hand) and waited. If they walk past me....great. If not, I'm in a position to act instantly. Wouldn't be the first time I've stood "nonchalantly" with my hands in my pocket.

 

[ironmike86]

Thanks Greg. Obviously I made mistakes as I openly admitted several times, I just don't understand why it can't be discussed positively like with some people then you get others coming in basically calling everyone an F-ING retard or other uncalled for comments. Nobody is perfect and that's what these threads are for, to share. I've thought about deleting this app several times as I'm sure other people do.

Learing from mistakes is all you/ WE can do. Buy you and your wife holsters and duel carry. She shoots? If not teach her. If you enjoys walks 2 guns is better than one. Especially if one person is being attacked JMO

 

[Cotillion]

I've been wanting to get her one of those Taurus 22lr pistols. It's about all she will shoot, which is still better than nothing. I always back pocket carry except this day and around my house but I'm gonna be picking up a p95 to OC I think. Mainly for walks and such. As to the other poster about crossing the street we did in the beginning from the store to my side of the street. I've done what you mentioned a few times, not just stand and wait but guide myself to a place where its not simply cat and mouse, but with my wife there I just wanted to speed walk. Since it luckily never got out of hand I don't even really know what their intentions were, if any. Better safe than sorry though. Typically bad vibes are had for a reason. Stay safe everyone! ( even the not so nice people around here :<3 )

 

[TekGreg]

Thanks Greg. Obviously I made mistakes as I openly admitted several times, I just don't understand why it can't be discussed positively like with some people then you get others coming in basically calling everyone an F-ING retard or other uncalled for comments. Nobody is perfect and that's what these threads are for, to share. I've thought about deleting this app several times as I'm sure other people do.

Cotillion, the problem isn't the app, but the person criticizing. You can learn a lot from those that don't - just engage those that are courteous and respectful and ignore any that aren't. Most harsh people feed off of the fact that they are getting to you - if you don't respond, they kind of shrivel up and go away.

 

[TekGreg]

After thinking about this scenario, I've come to the conclusion that my first move would have been to cross the street to the other side. If the guys also crossed the street then I would force their hand by stepping to the side and waiting for them to pass. I pocket-carry almost exclusively (usually an LCP or LCR .357) and would have just stood there with my hands in my pocket (i.e. gun in hand) and waited. If they walk past me....great. If not, I'm in a position to act instantly. Wouldn't be the first time I've stood "nonchalantly" with my hands in my pocket.

B2tall, this is a good strategy. Just the crossing the street or turning a corner would be enough of a confirmation to call 911. Much more convincing to tell the operator you tried to shake them and they matched you move for move. I considered possibly walking up onto a random porch or front door. Gives you potential witnesses if you knock or they come out and the BGs have to move on or play their card right there.

 

[ironmike86]

22 magnums are pretty good. Head shots or any shots will slow most down . May them think about it. Yea better than nothing. Then maybe she can work up to a .380 or 38

 

[Firefighterchen]

Being threatened is assault. Telling someone you are going to harm them is assault. After you physically touch them, thats battery. As a paramedic, if i ask someone if I can start an IV and they say no, I can not say, "I am going to start an IV anyways." That is assault. If I grab them and start the IV, that is battery.

Don't assume anything about the other poster's situation, you weren't there. Do you find it at all hypocritical that you would brandish a firearm against people just following you, but wouldn't against someone who was threatening violence? How would you feel if your peers thought you deserved to have those people follow you?

I do not feel you did anything wrong in your situation, and I don't feel the other poster did anything wrong either (except the CCW charge for not having his permit on his person). The courts decided that as well.

Firefighterchen has been critical of me and some of my posts and has made me re-post to clarify some things because he has called me on the carpet. However, I have an immense amount of respect for him because the man KNOWS what he is talking about!

"Assault" is talking, yelling, swearing, sounds, cat calls, whistles or any attention directed at you that you do not desire and/or that you find offensive. "Battery" is defined as "offensive touching," which means hitting, pinching, poking, tickling, flicking up to and including getting hit with a baseball bat: It is any "touch" of any hand, foot or object that you do not like or don't want to happen.

And before everyone starts with the "what ifs," yes, the drunk babbling at you on the corner is committing assault, it's just not enough to get him arrested. However, it could be the start of a chain of charges if you move away and he starts t follow you (harassment), grabs your shoulder (battery), and then begs for money (panhandling). It depends on the totality of the circumstances.

Which brings us back to Cotillion and his situation. First off, Cotillion, if you're still reading this, thank you for posting it for us to learn from and taking the fusillade of Monday-morning quarterbacking from all of us. The reality is that we discuss laws and scenarios on the forums, we practice training in sterile ranges with full lighting and ranges neatly marked, we never have innocent civilians cluttering up are practice field and when it comes time to apply what we have talked about and shot paper targets for and taken classes for and memorized laws for, we realize that there are many, many holes in our training! It's no one's fault - there is simply no way to cover in training every possibility that could happen on the street nor every reaction of a BG, civilian, store clerk or police officer. Real life is much faster than training and most people do much more wrong than Cotillion. Many never learn from their real life experiences - Cotillion did. Most people walk around completely oblivious to their surroundings and would have never spotted the BGs at the store - Cotillion did. And Cotillion doesn't need to apply the laws of the other 49 states, Guam or Puerto Rico, just his.

We're supposed to be here to learn and support each other. It's a fine line between doing a critique of Cotillion's actions and criticizing Cotillion personally. If every person that posts is hoisted upon his petard, we will find ourselves in short supply of experiences from which we can learn, and, quite frankly, I would appreciate more of these less-than-perfect accounts to find out what happens to people in the real world right her in the U.S. of A. instead of being told what SHOULD happen if and when it does by some expert in a magazine. So, for those of you that have a spiritual bent, I will end with the mantra I frequently beat myself over the head with:
“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." Matthew 7:1-2

Hey Tek, I didn't mean to call you out, I thought my response was to Cotillion. I'm not sure if you were being sarcastic with your respect towards me, but since I can't tell and I am a positive kind of guy, I will take it as a compliment. Thanks!

 

[Kevin Davis]

I'm thinking if you don't carry with one in the chamber you might as well have a brick. Seven paces is about 21ft, takes 1.5 seconds to cover that distance. Can you retrieve, chamber a round and fire a shot accurately if needed in less than 1.5 seconds? I didn't think so...

SMH

Totally agree that a unloaded firearm is just a piece of steel/plastic. although one should train and learn the proper way to handle a weapon and know it like the back of their hand. I hear about so many people buying firearms mainly handguns that have no training or experience with weapons. just my 2cents..

 

[TekGreg]

Hey Tek, I didn't mean to call you out, I thought my response was to Cotillion. I'm not sure if you were being sarcastic with your respect towards me, but since I can't tell and I am a positive kind of guy, I will take it as a compliment. Thanks!

FirefighterChen, no sarcasm intended at all, it was all genuine! I like the fact that you only comment on the subjects on which you are knowledgeable, and your knowledge is always high. You're a definite benefit to the forum!