I ask why?

[wolf_fire]

Friggin' hilarious............

Thanks... I have Eidolon on ignore for many reasons, but mostly he has admittedly stated he is here solely to be entertained while he is a provocateur, but I'm glad you posted all his remarks. You are right... friggin' hilarious.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Chen has explained why he said that you were perpetuating a lie - it is a lie that OC'ers can be shown to be a common target of criminals. Can you find one single news story of such an incident? There are one or two out there that claim to be that kind of an incident that I've seen others mention in passing, but it is almost always mentioned that they are highly questionable as to the veracity of that claim, so it hardly stands as "proof" of anything.

Blues

To be fair, dj12midnit also stated that he was equally talking about open carriers being the target of police harassment, with a link to where one "target" got $15,000 from the city of Bellingham, WA, and I posted another link where another "target" got $22,000 from the city of Alamogordo, New Mexico. If a person carries concealed, there is less chance of attracting the attention of police officers. I would not consider a police encounter, however, to be something bad, I would look at it as an opportunity. 95% of the people who have "targeted" me for open carry have been positive encounters, or at a minimum honest educational opportunities ("you can do that? No license required?"). Of the 5% of negative encounters - 3 out of 4 of those have been concealed carry only snobs who couldn't resist the opportunity to tell me they have a CPL, carry their guns concealed, and so should I.

My family has been the target of violent criminal activity once (a home invasion) before we had firearms, and our dogs protected us (chased them out of the house). Since I have been openly carrying (for about 6 years now), I have been the "negative" target of one police officer (while eating dinner in a restaurant) and 3 concealed carry only snobs. I have maybe 2 or 3 positive comments each month. No encounters with criminals, although the police officer did illegally detain me for about 10 minutes.

 

[XD40scinNC]

Ah, I forgot, the OC crowd will also say... hey cite where OCers have been targets by BG's. That usually is the other part of the OC vs CC debate.

To the OP, yep also been flamed for even asking why (some are a bit touchy).

I remember seeing one story where an OC'er had his gun taken from him by a BG, but will agree that is a rare occurrence.

I just don't OC because I don't want to be target and annoyed by the anti-gun uber liberals and their ignorance. Life is too short to listen to some obama loving soccer mom mouthing off about evil guns. Nothing I say is going to change her mind, for the simple reason she doesn't have one, and they sure as hell ain't changing mine.

 

[Rocketgeezer]

I could not care less if a couple of guys or girls want to do one another, but what the hell does that have to do with where you carry a gun anyhow, I open carry by choice, I have previously stated my reasons, and I would never even try to talk someone out of or into open or concealed, I honestly believe you would be better off open carry, because as stated in several other post's, most BGs like to avoid trouble, and going after a guy that they can see has a gun, is not a smart way of avoiding trouble, he don't know how fast you may be, so why take a chance, another thing is I'm always hearing that CC has the element of suprize, suprize of what, ok if he's sticking up a C-store and IF he don't see you and IF you can get your gun out with little fuss and IF you can get the drop on him, great you may have suprized him, but possably If he seen you walking around with a Glock on your hip and not knowing who you may be, he may just walk out and avoid the man with a gun......hey this is not a science, nobody really knows what the BG may do, but one thing I do know is I can bring my weapon to bear faster if its where I can just grab it rather than under my shirt or in my pocket or under my jacket, or tied to my ankle, or stuck in a IWB holster, not that the dudes that carry this way cannot deploy there guns quickly, but there is no way they can beat OP for fast deployment

 

[dj12midnit]

I could not care less if a couple of guys or girls want to do one another, but what the hell does that have to do with where you carry a gun anyhow, I open carry by choice, I have previously stated my reasons, and I would never even try to talk someone out of or into open or concealed, I honestly believe you would be better off open carry, because as stated in several other post's, most BGs like to avoid trouble, and going after a guy that they can see has a gun, is not a smart way of avoiding trouble, he don't know how fast you may be, so why take a chance, another thing is I'm always hearing that CC has the element of suprize, suprize of what, ok if he's sticking up a C-store and IF he don't see you and IF you can get your gun out with little fuss and IF you can get the drop on him, great you may have suprized him, but possably If he seen you walking around with a Glock on your hip and not knowing who you may be, he may just walk out and avoid the man with a gun......hey this is not a science, nobody really knows what the BG may do, but one thing I do know is I can bring my weapon to bear faster if its where I can just grab it rather than under my shirt or in my pocket or under my jacket, or tied to my ankle, or stuck in a IWB holster, not that the dudes that carry this way cannot deploy there guns quickly, but there is no way they can beat OP for fast deployment

This is the kind of information I was looking for.

 

[dj12midnit]

OK Let me try it like this. Had I come in here and made a post saying. You people are idiots. Waling around with your guns hanging out so you look all macho, is just going to get you killed. If you had half a brain you would stick that thing where people cant see it. Then I could understand I would deserve everything that has been said. I did not do that. I simply stated that I was curious, and there reasons why I favored CC. I will have to go back through the post and see if I clicked like on the wrong one, or if I liked it because it actually had a valid reason why OC was a logical choice. I have nothing against someone who open carries. Everyone has to make their own decision as to how they are going to carry. But as we know not everyone believes we should have the choice. Hence when I ride my motorcycle I am forced to wear a helmet.

P.S Who knows my next post in this topic might be how to chose an open carry holster.

P.S.S There reason I like chen's first post was because of this.

"I open carry for the tactical advantage. Concealed carriers are chosen as primary targets far far far more often, I do not wish to be one of those guys. There has been one "unenlightened" individual who didn't like me open carrying, he was a Texan, so it wasn't surprising."

It was his reason for why he OC's I was replying to the second part hoping to say I am not one of those do as I do people. That I came here with an open mind wanting to understand why you do what you do.

P.S.S.S NavyLCDR Your posts have been very helpful. Thank you. I am still reading Gun Facts.

 

[gfrlaser]

This will always, as I see it, be a debate no matter which side of the coin you fall on. In the end, comfort level seems to best describes why one does or does not OC. The central debate is balanced for either side, is it not? Some people simply wish not to draw attention to themselves and that is valid reason enough for me. I open carry. One of the biggest reasons I do is because I don't have to dress around my gun quite as much. I'm lazy I guess.

One thing that does surprise me however, is that very, very few people even ever notice its on my hip. The ones that do I assume, do not see it in a negative way or I would think I'd hear a comment now and then.

Curiosity now has me wondering, of those here that OC, do you find that many people notice?

 

[gundaddypv]

Even though I never OC, I am extremely grateful for those who do. A few months ago I was shopping at Wal-Mart when a woman about my age walked up next to me and opened the freezer door next to me. I noticed a left-hand-draw Smith & Wesson Airweight OC on her hip. I commented on her great choice in firearms and thanked her for OC'ing. She looked shocked, stared at me for a moment to see if I was picking on her or for real, and then smiled and told me I was welcome. I saw her about 10 minutes later as she pushed her cart past my next isle, still beaming.

OC'ers, especially women, destroy he lib's delusions about guns as being dangerous things which turn people into raging, murderous beasts.

At the risk of sounding racist, I want to mention one more thing. This woman was an attractive black woman. In my part of Arizona, black people are uncommon. Seeing one carrying a gun, looking completely harmless and professional is great for the naive, white suburbanites living in this area.

OC is the only way to normalize guns.

The big reason why I don't OC is because there is Native American land checkerboarded all across my area of AZ. Just driving to Wal-Mart, I pass through three areas. If my car breaks down or I pull off the road into any of these areas, I'm subject to arrest and will likely have my weapon confiscated (ahem - stolen) by the Tribal Police. They will claim that I "donated" it to the Tribe and getting it back is 100% impossible.

Therefore, I carry concealed. If I'm ever on their Tribal land, they won't know I'm carrying. If I could OC every day, I just might.

 

[Firefighterchen]

This will always, as I see it, be a debate no matter which side of the coin you fall on. In the end, comfort level seems to best describes why one does or does not OC. The central debate is balanced for either side, is it not? Some people simply wish not to draw attention to themselves and that is valid reason enough for me. I open carry. One of the biggest reasons I do is because I don't have to dress around my gun quite as much. I'm lazy I guess.

One thing that does surprise me however, is that very, very few people even ever notice its on my hip. The ones that do I assume, do not see it in a negative way or I would think I'd hear a comment now and then.

Curiosity now has me wondering, of those here that OC, do you find that many people notice?

Sad isn't it, those who don't oc absolutely know it draws attention...

I open carry. The majority of "good people" do not notice, do not care, and don't give me any trouble.

When I conceal, bad guys do notice, do care, but luckily since I'm not a push over and I keep my SA up they haven't given me terrible...yet (knock on wood)

Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app

 

[NavyLCDR]

The big reason why I don't OC is because there is Native American land checkerboarded all across my area of AZ. Just driving to Wal-Mart, I pass through three areas. If my car breaks down or I pull off the road into any of these areas, I'm subject to arrest and will likely have my weapon confiscated (ahem - stolen) by the Tribal Police. They will claim that I "donated" it to the Tribe and getting it back is 100% impossible.

Therefore, I carry concealed. If I'm ever on their Tribal land, they won't know I'm carrying. If I could OC every day, I just might.

I am glad things are different in Washington state. Here the tribal police can only arrest or seize property from non-Indians on the reservation for violations of state laws - not tribal laws.

In Washington, the most they can do to non-Indians for "violating" tribal laws is ask them to leave the reservation and you would be trespassing if you didn't,

I open carry on all the nearby reservations here including in the gas stations and stores and never had a problem.

 

[BC1]

OK Let me try it like this. Had I come in here and made a post saying. You people are idiots. Waling around with your guns hanging out so you look all macho, is just going to get you killed. If you had half a brain you would stick that thing where people cant see it. Then I could understand I would deserve everything that has been said. I did not do that. I simply stated that I was curious, and there reasons why I favored CC. I will have to go back through the post and see if I clicked like on the wrong one, or if I liked it because it actually had a valid reason why OC was a logical choice. I have nothing against someone who open carries. Everyone has to make their own decision as to how they are going to carry. But as we know not everyone believes we should have the choice. Hence when I ride my motorcycle I am forced to wear a helmet.

P.S Who knows my next post in this topic might be how to chose an open carry holster.

P.S.S There reason I like chen's first post was because of this.

"I open carry for the tactical advantage. Concealed carriers are chosen as primary targets far far far more often, I do not wish to be one of those guys. There has been one "unenlightened" individual who didn't like me open carrying, he was a Texan, so it wasn't surprising."

It was his reason for why he OC's I was replying to the second part hoping to say I am not one of those do as I do people. That I came here with an open mind wanting to understand why you do what you do.

P.S.S.S NavyLCDR Your posts have been very helpful. Thank you. I am still reading Gun Facts.

While I prefer CC I must support those who OC. It is legal and their preferred method of carry.

 

[farsidefan1]

To those that open carry and don't do anything stupid that anti gunners can use against our cause I say, "thank you"

To those that carry concealed and act likewise, I say "Thank you.

As long as we are reasonably good citizens we are helping the cause.

If the anti gets nervous and calls the cops that is not the problem of the open or concealed carrier, although it may be an inconvenience. It is the problem of the anti.

And anti gunners - I saw a quote used as a tagline by someone on a gun forum. Sigmond Freud said, "Fear of weapons is caused by sexual or emotional immaturity" So I would ask them, "which is it for you?"

 

[45doubletap]

I have to OC at work 8+ hrs a day. When I'm off duty I just want to be nondescript and blend in. Yet won't leave home without a gun. Prefer CC. Just my personal preference!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bikenut]

To the OP, yep also been flamed for even asking why (some are a bit touchy).

I remember seeing one story where an OC'er had his gun taken from him by a BG, but will agree that is a rare occurrence.

I just don't OC because I don't want to be target and annoyed by the anti-gun uber liberals and their ignorance. Life is too short to listen to some obama loving soccer mom mouthing off about evil guns. Nothing I say is going to change her mind, for the simple reason she doesn't have one, and they sure as hell ain't changing mine.

Well.... while some folks do not want, or think they don't have the verbal skills to prevail, to engage in countering some anti gunner soccer mom's tirade please consider that while you may not change the soccer mom's mind you might have a positive influence on any and all onlookers. Otherwise no one is countering the bilge this soccer mom spews everywhere during her anti gun life.

There is more to the fight to regain/protect the right to bear arms than writing congress critters who use our letters for toilet paper.... sometimes the fight must be one of winning the minds of individuals... one mind at a time. And open carry is the perfect way to cause an opportunity to educate and maybe change someone's mind.

But concealed carry does NOT cause any opportunities to spark a conversation.

 

[Bikenut]

As to why I OC everyday everywhere it is legal here in Michigan? I've posted this many times in many threads on many gun forums...

About that "element of surprise" thing..........

ConcealedCarry and OpenCarry (OC and CC) have the very same "element of surprise" because the "element of surprise" is really nothing more than the bad guy being "surprised" to discover his intended victim ..... has a gun.

With CC the bad guy is "surprised" to see his intended victim has a gun to defend himself with after the bad guy has already chosen his victim and the attack is already in progress and at that point seeing the gun can make the bad guy decide to stop the attack.

With OC the bad guy is "surprised" to see his intended victim has a gun to defend himself with during the bad guy's choosing a victim process and at that point seeing the gun can make the bad guy decide not to attack at all.

But either way... it was the bad guy being "surprised" to see a gun that was the actual "element of surprise".

Quite frankly... I'd prefer the bad guy be "surprised" to see my openly carried gun and decide not to attack me so I can go home and watch the 6 o'clock news coverage .... from the comfort of my easy chair..... about the CC'er who had to pull his gun and "surprise" the bad guy who attacked him.

Does OC's "element of surprise" really work? Well.... there have been thousands of folks open carrying in many States (Like Arizona) for decades! and yet accounts of folks OC'ing being attacked are rare. And you know with the anti gun media any incident involving an open carrier being attacked would be covered over and over and over yet such has not been the case in the past nor is it now.

And, in my not so humble opinion, because CC's use of the "element of surprise" is only effective after the attack has begun but OC's use of the "element of surprise" can prevent an attack from happening............. OC's use of the "element of surprise" is far superior to CC's because....

I'd much rather watch the 6 o'clock news than to BE the news.


Now... about an OC'er being "targeted" or "shot first" by the bad guys...

OC has been practiced for DECADES in Arizona (just one State out of all the States where open carry is/has been done)... yet the incidents where an OC'er was "targeted" or "shot first" are so rare it is difficult to find any reputable incidents that can be backed up with cites and/or links to put any validity to those claims. Ask yourself ....if there were any truth to those claims shouldn't it be easy to find actual incidents especially considering there are DECADES!! of open carry to choose from?

 

[telpinaro]

As to why I OC everyday everywhere it is legal here in Michigan? I've posted this many times in many threads on many gun forums...

About that "element of surprise" thing..........

ConcealedCarry and OpenCarry (OC and CC) have the very same "element of surprise" because the "element of surprise" is really nothing more than the bad guy being "surprised" to discover his intended victim ..... has a gun.

With CC the bad guy is "surprised" to see his intended victim has a gun to defend himself with after the bad guy has already chosen his victim and the attack is already in progress and at that point seeing the gun can make the bad guy decide to stop the attack.

With OC the bad guy is "surprised" to see his intended victim has a gun to defend himself with during the bad guy's choosing a victim process and at that point seeing the gun can make the bad guy decide not to attack at all.

But either way... it was the bad guy being "surprised" to see a gun that was the actual "element of surprise".

Quite frankly... I'd prefer the bad guy be "surprised" to see my openly carried gun and decide not to attack me so I can go home and watch the 6 o'clock news coverage .... from the comfort of my easy chair..... about the CC'er who had to pull his gun and "surprise" the bad guy who attacked him.

Does OC's "element of surprise" really work? Well.... there have been thousands of folks open carrying in many States (Like Arizona) for decades! and yet accounts of folks OC'ing being attacked are rare. And you know with the anti gun media any incident involving an open carrier being attacked would be covered over and over and over yet such has not been the case in the past nor is it now.

And, in my not so humble opinion, because CC's use of the "element of surprise" is only effective after the attack has begun but OC's use of the "element of surprise" can prevent an attack from happening............. OC's use of the "element of surprise" is far superior to CC's because....

I'd much rather watch the 6 o'clock news than to BE the news.


Now... about an OC'er being "targeted" or "shot first" by the bad guys...

OC has been practiced for DECADES in Arizona (just one State out of all the States where open carry is/has been done)... yet the incidents where an OC'er was "targeted" or "shot first" are so rare it is difficult to find any reputable incidents that can be backed up with cites and/or links to put any validity to those claims. Ask yourself ....if there were any truth to those claims shouldn't it be easy to find actual incidents especially considering there are DECADES!! of open carry to choose from?

Love your element of "surprise!" Every time I see it in quotes I'm thinking birthday party. lol

And wow, decades? I didn't know it had been that long in AZ already.

Also, I think the "guys with guns" they are targeting first are security guards in a well-planned bank robbery or bodyguards in an assassination attempt. So sure... valid scenario... but I don't even know how far down on the probability scale.

 

[Drzzit]

I believe open carry in AZ, like in NM has been law since they first became states.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

 

[45doubletap]

This OC vs CC debate never ends well....gets heated for no reason. It's an individual choice. No particular method is better or worse. Neither method is perfect for every circumstance.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bikenut]

I believe open carry in AZ, like in NM has been law since they first became states.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

Although it was largely unknown that open carry has been legal in Michigan since it became a State in 1837...until the efforts of a few courageous folks who dared to go against the "just because you can doesn't mean you should" mentality over the past 7 or 8 years brought open carry, with no permit required, being legal into the public's awareness... however... in Michigan there isn't a law that allows open carry... what makes open carry legal is there are no laws that make it illegal. Anything that the law doesn't actually say is illegal is, by default, legal.

However...there are laws that make the "possession" of a pistol/firearm in certain places/under certain circumstances illegal unless a person has a carry permit. And open carriers who do not have a carry permit must be very careful in how they transport their pistol making sure to not handle the pistol itself within the confines of a vehicle (have to actually take the cased gun completely out of the trunk before opening the case/touching the gun) and where they openly carry because there are places a carry permit is required to "possess" a pistol whether carrying openly or concealed.

Regardless of which State a person resides in..... I strongly recommend anyone wanting to carry a gun, openly with or without a permit/concealed with a permit, make absolutely sure they understand the laws... ALL OF THE LAWS! that affect carrying (and some of those, like the trespass laws, aren't even firearm laws)... before carrying. I also highly recommend carrying, and using (if legal in your State), a covert recorder whether it be only audio or audio+video simply because a recording takes care of any "he said - she said" situations when it comes to either police hassle or another person lying that you did something when you didn't.

Where can you find the information you need for your particular State? Here is a good source...

OpenCarry.org - Discussion Forum

Once there scroll down to find your own State.

Edited to make the whole thing easier to read...

 

[Ringo]

For those who want gun control, ARIZONA says....

Link Removed