Hollow Point Question

[tpd223]

My understanding is that off-duty LE, even under LEOSA, must abide by the 15 round mag law and the no hollow points law.

I am aware of arrests being made for these issues in NJ, regardless of the intent of LEOSA.

I have read that a newer version of this law will be coming up this year that will block these sorts of laws in circumvention of the intent of LEOSA.

I'll be traveling to NJ next month (not by choice) and plan on carrying the Glock 19 instead of my G17 duty weapon, and loading with EFMJ ammo instead of my issued Gold Dot loads.

 

[AvidshooterTX]

NJ is a state of the criminals, by the criminals and for the criminals. They outlaw hollow points to protect their criminal enterprises. Same reason Chicago hates guns in the hands of ordinary folk.

 

[c45man]

My understanding is that off-duty LE, even under LEOSA, must abide by the 15 round mag law and the no hollow points law.

I am aware of arrests being made for these issues in NJ, regardless of the intent of LEOSA.

I have read that a newer version of this law will be coming up this year that will block these sorts of laws in circumvention of the intent of LEOSA.

I'll be traveling to NJ next month (not by choice) and plan on carrying the Glock 19 instead of my G17 duty weapon, and loading with EFMJ ammo instead of my issued Gold Dot loads.

Pardon my last post..... I failed to mention that magazine capicity limitations are not found in the language of the officers safety act..

If you are aware of arrests being made charging lawful carriers of the act in question, the defendant will soon be a plaintiff in a cival case against the state of new jersey who will find themselves in the position of defendant. Unlawful arrest issue.

 

[6shootercarry]

You can't even pump your own gas. Gun owners are made to jump though hoops. The taxes are among the highest in the nation.

IMO, NEW JERSEY SUCKS.:fie:

I've often referred to NJ as "The Arm-Pit of the East Coast"..

I know the laws here in MA ain't all that sane but...

Peace...

 

[tpd223]

LEOSA only allows concealed carry by retired and out of state officers, my understanding again is that it does not trump other laws that must be followed from state to state, with New Jersey being a particular issue.

A couple of postings that outline the position of the folks running that state;

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I think it best to avoid the issue than get arrested and spend time in jail on felony charges, and a bunch of money on lawyers, in the slim hope of a long term payoff with a lawsuit.

 

[c45man]

LEOSA only allows concealed carry by retired and out of state officers, my understanding again is that it does not trump other laws that must be followed from state to state, with New Jersey being a particular issue.

A couple of postings that outline the position of the folks running that state;

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Link Removed


I think it best to avoid the issue than get arrested and spend time in jail on felony charges, and a bunch of money on lawyers, in the slim hope of a long term payoff with a lawsuit.

I really do appreciate the communication on this matter and my intent is not to argue or debate. That being said, the above posts are relative to N.J. laws regarding the retired officers from New Jersey having an easier time to get a New Jersey Permit to Carry. Your above post is very informative, but it has no relationship to the Officers Safety Act passed by the United States Congress. This Officers Safety Act does in fact trump state laws from state to state including the much maligned state of New Jersey. If the above Act on the federal level did not trump state law, it would not be worth the paper it was written on and it would totally miss the point of passing such law to begin with. I understand your thoughts, but do not confuse New Jersey legislation regarding the retired officers right to carry and the Washington passed legislation that I have been addressing. As to the hollow point issue, New Jersey, through their own legislation, can prohibit anyone they wish from carrying H.P. ammunition. If a retired officer is carrying under the color of the Officer Safety Act, state law addressing hollow points is mute, much to the regret of the Trenton politicians. This a very confusing matter because of the two levels of legislation.

 

[FN1910]

I've often referred to NJ as "The Arm-Pit of the East Coast"..

I know the laws here in MA ain't all that sane but...

Peace...

A friend of mine used to say that if they were going to give the earth and enema that NJ is where they would stick it. leasantry: I can't say as I have only traveled through NJ a few times and never stopped but NJ doesn't have a great reputation. :biggrin:

 

[theicemanmpls]

A friend of mine used to say that if they were going to give the earth and enema that NJ is where they would stick it. leasantry: I can't say as I have only traveled through NJ a few times and never stopped but NJ doesn't have a great reputation. :biggrin:

I never liked New Jersey.

 

[tpd223]

New Jersey's opinion is that they can still ban the carry of JHP ammo while allowing concealed carry by out of state LEOs under LEOSA.

Regardless of who is correct, one would have to endure a felony arrest and court time, lawyer bills, etc., just to prove a point.

I think I'll just carry EFMJ and not worry about the issue.

 

[6shootercarry]

Avoid NJ in general and it's no issue. I have no business there nor will I ever. Sorry to bash, but I live in MA and the crappy F'ed up laws in NJ make me feel better.:sarcastic:

Peace...

 

[tpd223]

I had in fact thought that I would never set foot in NJ, ever, but circumstances dictate that I will be there for a week.

Sometimes we have little control of these issues.

Trust me, I wouldn't be going there by choice.

 

[longnkrnchgm]

WOW glad I don't live in NJ. Do they also tell you which hand you must wipe with?

 

[tpd223]

A few expanding bullets are not HP and will expand just fine. There are many jurisdictions with strange gun and bullet laws. Topeka Kansas doesn't allow plastic tipped bullets,

Federal Premium Expanding Full Metal Jacket Ammunition is an ideal choice for law enforcement agencies that don't permit hollow point ammunition.

That is no longer the case in Topeka. I was involved in getting that law rescinded.


EFMJ was what I carried in my Glock 19 last year when I had to take a trip to NJ.

According to the NJSP Firearms section, EFMJ, Cor Bon PowerBall and Hornady Critical Defense are all legal in NJ.

Previously I could carry in NJ as an out of state LEO, under HR218, but could not carry JHP ammo or magazines with a capacity greater than 15 rounds.

I went with my Glock loaded with 124gr +P EFMJ (the 105gr stuff I would specifically not recommend) and my S&W 642 loaded with wadcutters. At that time I knew EFMJ was legal as I had contacts who were retired NJ LE who were carrying that ammo. I later found out that the other two rounds were also legal.

You can still be very well armed in NJ with using illegal ammo under NJ law.


This year an update to HR218/LEOSA was passed that nullified the NJ ammo issue for our of state and retired LE.

 

[RD-G23]

i heard from two organizations in nj say we can use them at the range and for home defense but can't carry them around…….doesn't make sense if we can't carry to begin with
but if you where to shoot an intruder with a HP he is now in possession of a HP and can be charged so

 

[RonM0710]

I don't mean to be ignorant, but what is L.E.O.S.A. ??

If you qualify under The Law Enforcement Officer's Safety Act you can carry in all 50 states. You need to look it up and see if it applies to you. Then you need to find a place to go qualify with and get a card saying you qualified with your everyday carry gun. You must qualify yearly and only carry what you have qualified with. You can qualify at your old department or in the state you reside. You must carry with you the qualification card and your retired ID when you CCW.

US 18 44-926C (LEOSA) includes "(2) ammunition not expressly progibited by Federal law or subject to the provisions of the National firearms Act"

 

[tricolordad]

WOW glad I don't live in NJ. Do they also tell you which hand you must wipe with?

Ssshhhh they might hear you!

 

[PBRStreetgang]

Mate mike, you can return to NY and qualify there if you like. HR-218 states you can qualify in the state you retire from or the state you now reside. NJ is a hassle because they still have special permit you have to apply for thru NJSP each year.

 

[sig_man]

We moved out 25 years ago, enough of the traffic, transplanted NYer's, high taxes and all of the stupid laws. Now with all of the anti gun laws being passed we do not even like to go back to visit family. Usually we stay in PA and just drive into NJ to visit and return to the hotel in PA that evening.

With regards to the hollow points, I take it that Federal Guard Dog would be OK, but what about Hornady Critical Duty or Critical Defense?

 

[Gatherer]

Just returned from 'visiting' NJ. I moved out 25 yrs ago also. We stopped in a store in Bound Brook. (Efingers) The guy in the gun dept. pulled out a box HP's and said you can have them in your home or going to and from the range. If one falls onto the floor of your car and a cop finds it....you have now become a felon. Moving, one of the 'best' moves I've ever done!

 

[GlassWolf]

I don't understand why they would rather you didn't carry HP's. Just from a safety stand point, their less likely to penetrate the bad guy and continue downrange into some other poor bastard walking his dog.

I just don't see the logic these " powers that be" go by....

Because the idiot lawmakers in NJ, who have no understanding of firearms at all, think a hollow point bullet looks scary, and is only design to do more damage to a person and kill them.. so of course, they are only used by bad guys and must be banned for the safety of the children!