Having A Right To Carry Does Not Make You A LEO
- Thread starter White1
- Start date
whodat2710
New member
I know the article is glossing over some details. I don't trust the media. It says "instead" they went to his house. How do they know that the cops didn't go across the street FIRST, and finding nothing noticed the guy across the street?
tricolordad
Banned
Wow, guess we are still 
fftopic: Bordering on hijacking the thread aren't we treo? (It's not really a question.)
fftopic: Bordering on hijacking the thread aren't we treo? (It's not really a question.)
Axeanda45
Banned
I have contemplated on whether or not to write this, but I just cannot be silent (big surprise, right?)
There are many on this thread that seem to think that the "problem" here is that the cops order was not obeyed....By thinking this way, they shift the blame of the mans loss of life onto his own shoulders..... and off of the cops, yet the fact still remains that the man is dead for not breaking any law whatsoever....
Let me make a few statements that these people's posts remind me of....
Obey the police (authorities) because you know, the law is the law, and you gotta obey anything THEY tell you to do, doncha know...
You SPINELESS SLAVE! (That is exactly how I see some of you, cowering as someone tells you what to do, too afraid they might hurt you if you resisted, or that you will miss american idol or lose the respect of your neighbor who is a bigger wimp than yourself if you dont obey...)
Just do what we say and everything will be all right... (would you have your daughter obey that order from a rapist if she had the knowledge/skill or tool(s) to defend herself? I swear some of you would say just that....
She could be marked/damaged for LIFE or possibly even be dead, and that bastard that did it will do it again and again until SOMEONE stops him..
Well, these murdering cops are still out there, arent they? What has happened to them to deter them from murdering the next guy who doesnt bend over for them fast enough? NOTHING!!! and YOU insist that NOTHING IS THE ANSWER that will fix the effing problem!!!
(I am not talking here specifically of these 2 cops.. just what happens in general when the "authorities" murder someone, oops, sorry, I must have meant "followed departmental policy/guidelines/protocols")
YOU are trying to keep people from standing up! YOU keep saying it is the victims fault! YOU keep saying "do as ordered" I say bullcrap!!!
How many innocents (or even those possibly guilty ones who were never even given the chance to have their day in court?) have been killed by these thugs over just the last 10 or 15 years? 1000? 2000? More? I wouldnt dare believe much less..... Yet how many of these thugs even lost a days pay over it? 10? 20? They usually get a paid vacation!
HOW DARE YOU TELL INNOCENT PEOPLE to roll over and just give up when one or more of these thugs confront them when they have done NOTHING WRONG!!!! (yes, choose your battles, DUH.... Dont die for nothing)
STOP projecting your cowardice onto others, it really is pitiful to think that you are our countryman.... It really is, to see such spineless advice being spouted off on a Rights forum... It makes me think that maybe there isnt a chance we could turn this country around and get it back on the right track... What with so many who wont even stand up for themselves and even ridicule the thought of someone else doing so..... Oh, dont do that! they might kill you... THEY ARE KILLING US ANYWAY!!!
I would rather be dead from fighting for my rights than to be a slave like some of you.....
I AM A FREE MAN......
How many of YOU can say that with a clear conscience?
There are many on this thread that seem to think that the "problem" here is that the cops order was not obeyed....By thinking this way, they shift the blame of the mans loss of life onto his own shoulders..... and off of the cops, yet the fact still remains that the man is dead for not breaking any law whatsoever....
Let me make a few statements that these people's posts remind me of....
Obey the police (authorities) because you know, the law is the law, and you gotta obey anything THEY tell you to do, doncha know...
You SPINELESS SLAVE! (That is exactly how I see some of you, cowering as someone tells you what to do, too afraid they might hurt you if you resisted, or that you will miss american idol or lose the respect of your neighbor who is a bigger wimp than yourself if you dont obey...)
Just do what we say and everything will be all right... (would you have your daughter obey that order from a rapist if she had the knowledge/skill or tool(s) to defend herself? I swear some of you would say just that....
She could be marked/damaged for LIFE or possibly even be dead, and that bastard that did it will do it again and again until SOMEONE stops him..
Well, these murdering cops are still out there, arent they? What has happened to them to deter them from murdering the next guy who doesnt bend over for them fast enough? NOTHING!!! and YOU insist that NOTHING IS THE ANSWER that will fix the effing problem!!!
(I am not talking here specifically of these 2 cops.. just what happens in general when the "authorities" murder someone, oops, sorry, I must have meant "followed departmental policy/guidelines/protocols")
YOU are trying to keep people from standing up! YOU keep saying it is the victims fault! YOU keep saying "do as ordered" I say bullcrap!!!
How many innocents (or even those possibly guilty ones who were never even given the chance to have their day in court?) have been killed by these thugs over just the last 10 or 15 years? 1000? 2000? More? I wouldnt dare believe much less..... Yet how many of these thugs even lost a days pay over it? 10? 20? They usually get a paid vacation!
HOW DARE YOU TELL INNOCENT PEOPLE to roll over and just give up when one or more of these thugs confront them when they have done NOTHING WRONG!!!! (yes, choose your battles, DUH.... Dont die for nothing)
STOP projecting your cowardice onto others, it really is pitiful to think that you are our countryman.... It really is, to see such spineless advice being spouted off on a Rights forum... It makes me think that maybe there isnt a chance we could turn this country around and get it back on the right track... What with so many who wont even stand up for themselves and even ridicule the thought of someone else doing so..... Oh, dont do that! they might kill you... THEY ARE KILLING US ANYWAY!!!
I would rather be dead from fighting for my rights than to be a slave like some of you.....
I AM A FREE MAN......
How many of YOU can say that with a clear conscience?
whodat2710
New member
[/QUOTE]
If you want to shoot it out with a cop that tells you to drop your gun, you won't be for long. If you consider that slavery, dude, you're out there. You can like cops or not, respect them or not, but if you remain armed after they tell you not to be, you are asking to be legally relieved of those rights you swear by.
If you want to shoot it out with a cop that tells you to drop your gun, you won't be for long. If you consider that slavery, dude, you're out there. You can like cops or not, respect them or not, but if you remain armed after they tell you not to be, you are asking to be legally relieved of those rights you swear by.
Treo
Bullet Proof
Wow, guess we are still
It really bothers you when people talk about jesus doesn't it? (It's not really a question.)
Kramer1113
New member
Axeanda45,
This is really easy. Use a cell phone and phone in the same type of call in this story.
Use your neighbors address or an empty field near by.
You stand in your driveway with your gun drawn and wait for the responding officers to arrive and begin searching for the perp.
We will all read about the results later.
File this under practical application.
BTW. Our Bible calls upon us to follow the law of the land. Those officers were not trespassing.
This is really easy. Use a cell phone and phone in the same type of call in this story.
Use your neighbors address or an empty field near by.
You stand in your driveway with your gun drawn and wait for the responding officers to arrive and begin searching for the perp.
We will all read about the results later.
File this under practical application.
BTW. Our Bible calls upon us to follow the law of the land. Those officers were not trespassing.
tricolordad
Banned
No, it amuses me that you try to use the religion deflection to cover up all your bleating.
Still though, all you're really saying is: BAAAAAAAAA BAAAAAAAA!
tricolordad
Banned
the bible also praises Solomon, who was a ruthless tyrant, not for being kind and wise, but for threatening to cut a baby in half. It also contains 10 pages of his porno songs.
Kramer1113
New member
Correct, The Song of Solomon is very provocative. Not sure Porno is an exacting term but I'm going to give it a pass depending on point of view or length of time in prison.
There are a number of reasons the police can enter property without a search warrant.
To deal with a breach of the peace, to protect life and property, to arrest a person wanted for a number of offenses etc.
In this case I believe the Law Enforcement Officer(s) were well within the parameters of the law.
There are a number of reasons the police can enter property without a search warrant.
To deal with a breach of the peace, to protect life and property, to arrest a person wanted for a number of offenses etc.
In this case I believe the Law Enforcement Officer(s) were well within the parameters of the law.
Axeanda45
Banned
So,
The way to defend yourself from tyranny and injustice is to do everything exactly as the "authorities" tell you to do it....... You know, follow UnConstitutional "laws", follow "unlawful" orders, Bend over and grab your ankles, etc......
My how pathetic you are and you cant even see it....
I am DONE trying to wake you up......
“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”
“It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.”
― Samuel Adams
Well Mr Adams.. sometimes that brush just wont light....
The way to defend yourself from tyranny and injustice is to do everything exactly as the "authorities" tell you to do it....... You know, follow UnConstitutional "laws", follow "unlawful" orders, Bend over and grab your ankles, etc......
My how pathetic you are and you cant even see it....
I am DONE trying to wake you up......
“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”
“It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.”
― Samuel Adams
Well Mr Adams.. sometimes that brush just wont light....
Treo
Bullet Proof
The statement has been made numerous times in this thread that we are engaged in a war. The problem I have with that statement is that “war” Is a very specific word with a very specific definition.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War
War - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
1
Both Webster’s and Wiki define war as a state of open armed conflict, so if you tell me we (or you) are at war then I expect to see the armed conflict.
During WWII both the French and Dutch resistance bore arms against the occupying Nazi forces. They engaged in actual acts of armed insurrection, they sabotaged the Wermacht where they could and they offered real aid and comfort to the enemies of Germany by assisting downed fliers in their escapes, giving what intelligence they could to the Allied forces and helping Jews to escape the death camps. In short they took action and really risked their lives for their cause.
If you truly feel that our country is engaged in a civil war and you aren’t taking specific action or you aren’t in a state of armed conflict with the “enemy” don’t tell me you are at war. If you truly believe that what is happening in America constitutes a “war” and you aren’t in a state of armed conflict against the “enemy” the best you can really tell me is that our country has been occupied and you aren’t doing anything about it (while calling anyone who doesn't share your world view a coward I might add.)
Michael Dornier was at war, Randy Weaver was at war, Vernon Howell was at war, Timothy McVeigh was at war. The chest beaters here? Nope, you’re not at war. At best, you’re sneaking around behind the invaders backs using the “war” as an excuse to justify your unlawful actions
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War
War - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
1
Both Webster’s and Wiki define war as a state of open armed conflict, so if you tell me we (or you) are at war then I expect to see the armed conflict.
During WWII both the French and Dutch resistance bore arms against the occupying Nazi forces. They engaged in actual acts of armed insurrection, they sabotaged the Wermacht where they could and they offered real aid and comfort to the enemies of Germany by assisting downed fliers in their escapes, giving what intelligence they could to the Allied forces and helping Jews to escape the death camps. In short they took action and really risked their lives for their cause.
If you truly feel that our country is engaged in a civil war and you aren’t taking specific action or you aren’t in a state of armed conflict with the “enemy” don’t tell me you are at war. If you truly believe that what is happening in America constitutes a “war” and you aren’t in a state of armed conflict against the “enemy” the best you can really tell me is that our country has been occupied and you aren’t doing anything about it (while calling anyone who doesn't share your world view a coward I might add.)
Michael Dornier was at war, Randy Weaver was at war, Vernon Howell was at war, Timothy McVeigh was at war. The chest beaters here? Nope, you’re not at war. At best, you’re sneaking around behind the invaders backs using the “war” as an excuse to justify your unlawful actions
tricolordad
Banned
It's funny that you say "protect life and property" when they committed murder and tresspassed. And yes, you can equate growing up Catholic to being in prison. I'll let that one slide on a technicality.
BluesStringer
Les Brers
Who is/was Michael Dornier? Do you maybe mean Chris Dorner?
Randy Weaver was at war with who? He is/was *labeled* a white separatist because of a friendship with a person who *associated* with members of a white separatist group, but he has always denied that he or his friend were members, and cited his belief in the coming Apocalypse as the reason he took his family away from the evils of society and isolated themselves on Ruby Ridge. He was 30 years ahead of you in believing that we were/are living in the End Times!
An angry neighbor who he had beat in a lawsuit initiated the fed's awareness of him by lying about who the Weavers were and what they were doing up there. He was subsequently set up by an undercover FBI agent that relentlessly hounded him to shorten the barrel of a shotgun and he finally gave in to the agent's urgings. That was the basis for the warrant that ended in the death of his son, his wife and the family dog. All because he wouldn't turn informant (against people whom he denies to this day that he ever had an association with) in exchange for dropping the illegal weapons charge that originated in the minds of federal agents who declared and conducted open war on a family of US citizens. All any of the Weavers ever wanted was to be left the heck alone!
Not only was Randy Weaver the illegal and unjustifiable target of a war on freedom by the government, and not only did he have to sacrifice his wife and his son as a result of the prosecution of that war, he was also prosecuted for murder and acquitted by a jury of his peers as acting in self-defense in the death of one of the federal agents that participated in the illegal assault on Ruby Ridge and the death of his wife and son. You really should read about the trial and know what you're talking about before you slander an innocent man who was unjustifiably persecuted by the same government you're claiming had "war" waged against it by him.
Oh my goodness!!!!! The government passes on multitudes of opportunities to arrest Koresh in town while he was unarmed, alone and unable to put up any meaningful resistance, and instead assault the Davidians complex in military fashion over more trumped-up charges of child abuse that have never been substantiated to this day, and here you are slandering another victim of the government as a "war" monger!!! The government waged so much damned war that it killed 76 men, women and children on the final day of the siege.
For all your dictionary definitions of "war," it sure would seem you don't have a freakin' clue who has been responsible for waging it in two of the three most significant cases you cite here.
You got one out of four right!
And the slander continues. Axe using words to describe his take on society's state of war or peace is hardly "unlawful," and he has described nothing in this (or any other that I've ever seen) thread that he has done that could conceivably be deemed "unlawful."
I have questions about Romans 13 as it relates to our duty to submit to government(s), but I have never heard an analysis of it that suggests that any human being doesn't have the God-given authority to defend themselves against assault, whether it be perpetrated by government in a "lawful" manner or otherwise.
I'm not saying that I'm in total agreement with Axe about the guy who was killed by cops in the case being discussed here. IF he was given a chance to lower or drop his weapon, and IF he was aware that that chance was being offered by cops, he should have taken that opportunity. But these days, what with three of the very examples you cite Treo, those are two very big IFs, which makes Axe's take on the scenario at least as valid as yours or anyone else's.
Blues
Treo
Bullet Proof
The former LA cop? I may have confused him with Michael Dorn(?) the guy that played Worf.
I knew this post was going to start a pissing contest. Perhaps Weaver and Howell were bad examples because they both were more the attacked than the attackers. But my main point still stands, if you (in the generic sense) honestly believe that we are engaged in a war then don’t sit on the internet and postulate about what a patriot you are and post the "May posterity forget” quote by Sam Adams ( who was in the middle of an open and declared state of actual war against England when he made that quote BTW) get up off your ass and go fight. Don't sit there at your computer desk and tell me "By gawd no JBT is gonna do that to me!!!" Get out there and let your ass cash the check your mouth wrote.
I referenced a statement made in the NY safe act thread http://www.usacarry.com/forums/leo-...ets-his-sidearm-s-magazine-13.html#post437640 that magazine bans are unconstitutional and as such the poster wasn’t obligated to follow them and that not following them was an act of civil disobedience. (IIRC) this act of Civil disobedience was justified by a perceived state of “war” between us and our “overlords”. As I stated in that thread Civil disobedience (by definition) involves violating an unjust law openly and accepting the consequences of your actions. Anything else (IMO) isn’t civil disobedience it’s hiding behind a noble justification to break the law you wanted to break anyway.
Neither have I and I don’t believe I implied such anywhere in this thread or any other. What I have stated, clearly and repeatedly is that given the current state of our society (one in which we are not in state of armed conflict with our government) the proper way to address such a situation is within the system. I.E. comply with the lawful commands of the officer now and take it to court later.
Again, if you’re going to tell me it’s war open fire on the guy as soon as he crosses your property line, really if it’s war get down to the local police station, National Guard Armory or Military base and stage an ambush. Because if you aren’t doing that it either isn’t truly “war” or you (in the generic) don’t truly have the courage of your convictions Don’t tell me “it’s war but I’m leaving them alone until they come after me” and then call me a coward.
To sum up this entire post in one sentence, if you're going to throw around the word "war" act like it's a war; if you aren't going to act like it's a war don't use the word.
(again all use of the word "you" in this post is in the generic sense)
Teachings | Rocky Mountain Calvary (2009 Jul 19 (Sun) - Romans 13:1 - 13:14 - Eric Cartier)
If you are interested here is a link to a teaching on Romans 13 from Rocky Mountain Calvary (my home church)
Treo
Bullet Proof
I want to make it clear that I do understand the frustration that Axe and Blues feel. I’ve felt it myself and I still feel it sometimes. There was a time when my whole life was wrapped up in the patriot movement to the point that it was a false religion. I know exactly what it feels like to see the truth about where America is headed politically and not be able to get people to listen when you try to tell them.
I can’t explain how but I had to come to a place in my life where I let it go and quit trying to hold back the tide. That’s the only way I got over the frustration.
The fact is that America is going to continue to become more authoritarian, Americans are going to lose more (and eventually all) of their freedoms and the worst part is that they are going to willingly give most of them away but nothing I do is going to change that and as I said up thread I’m better off (and actually make a difference) showing people the way to the life boats than manning the pumps.
Bottom line, (IMO) until you learn to let it go you’re going to continue to be frustrated.
I can’t explain how but I had to come to a place in my life where I let it go and quit trying to hold back the tide. That’s the only way I got over the frustration.
The fact is that America is going to continue to become more authoritarian, Americans are going to lose more (and eventually all) of their freedoms and the worst part is that they are going to willingly give most of them away but nothing I do is going to change that and as I said up thread I’m better off (and actually make a difference) showing people the way to the life boats than manning the pumps.
Bottom line, (IMO) until you learn to let it go you’re going to continue to be frustrated.
