Have you open carried?

[SouthernBoy]

According to the rabid CC only folks who bash OC those who OC are idiots, attention seekers, their purpose is to "scare" people, they will be targeted for a gun grab, and... they will be "shot first". Yet when asked to provide cites and/or links to verifiable proof of those assertions all that is heard is......

crickets.

Oddly enough it is unusual for an OC'er to bash CC but it is commonplace for CC'ers to come to the OC section of the forum for the sole purpose of... bashing OC.

And a very important thing I would like for people to understand... a carry "permit" is NOT the right to bear arms! It is the exact kind of infringement referred to in "shall not be infringed" because it is the government in charge of giving.. or denying.. permission to who can, and who cannot!, bear an arm in a concealed manner. It annoys me to no end to have a CC'er complain about OC... and then say they support the right to bear arms. They are NOT supporting the right to bear arms... they are supporting the government's control of bearing concealed arms!!!!!!

I personally don't care how someone legally carries... I respect your personal choice. All I would like is to have that same respect for my choices in return.

Ok... my Friday morning rant is over..

Can this gentleman get an AMEN?

He hit the nail on the head with the part about concealed carry permits not being a right but rather a permission from some authority who has power. Permit = permission. No permit = liberty.... and a right.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I have not opened carried. I is just a matter of choice for me, the less attention I draw to myself I believe the better off I will be.

To shame... According to these thugs in here if you choose not to open carry you must be against open carry and a member of the Brady Bunch. You're allowed to have a choice as long as it is to open carry.

Well, looks like the only thug that gprez2006 drew the attention of is NYMike. Well over 90% of the hassle I have received regarding my openly carried firearm has come from the concealed carry only snobs. With people like NYMike around, I can understand why gprez2006 doesn't want to deal with them.

 

[NYMike]

Well, looks like the only thug that gprez2006 drew the attention of is NYMike. Well over 90% of the hassle I have received regarding my openly carried firearm has come from the concealed carry only snobs. With people like NYMike around, I can understand why gprez2006 doesn't want to deal with them.

I guess recognizing sarcasm is reserved for the knowledgeable and educated folks. FYI, I agree with gprez2006, but was answering him the way the OC nazis on this forum would and have answered me for expressing my 1st ammendment right.

 

[Bikenut]

I guess recognizing sarcasm is reserved for the knowledgeable and educated folks. FYI, I agree with gprez2006, but was answering him the way the OC nazis on this forum would and have answered me for expressing my 1st ammendment right.

The nature of the typed word on the internet does not contain the ability for folks to read your mind and just "know" your intent was for sarcasm. May I suggest using

/sarcasm

at the end of anything you wish to be taken as sarcasm?

And no sarcasm in the following....

Do you consider folks who will stand up for OC against an onslaught of ridicule, insults, and sarcasm as............... OC nazis? If so that is a very telling insight into your own perspective about the right to bear arms since in many States OC comes closer to the actual right to bear arms because it is legal to do without needing a "permit".

You are aware that a concealed carry "permit" IS the exact kind of infringement referenced in "shall not be infringed". A permit is NOT the right to bear arms but is the State's permission to bear an arm. That means those who say they support the right to bear arms but advocate that people should only CC.... are really supporting the government's control of who is given, or denied, the privilege of bearing a concealed arm. And by arguing in favor of the government's permit system those folks are actually supporting ............. gun control.

And doesn't History show that the real Nazi's in Germany were in favor of.... gun control?

 

[SouthernBoy]

The nature of the typed word on the internet does not contain the ability for folks to read your mind and just "know" your intent was for sarcasm. May I suggest using

/sarcasm

at the end of anything you wish to be taken as sarcasm?

And no sarcasm in the following....

Do you consider folks who will stand up for OC against an onslaught of ridicule, insults, and sarcasm as............... OC nazis? If so that is a very telling insight into your own perspective about the right to bear arms since in many States OC comes closer to the actual right to bear arms because it is legal to do without needing a "permit".

You are aware that a concealed carry "permit" IS the exact kind of infringement referenced in "shall not be infringed". A permit is NOT the right to bear arms but is the State's permission to bear an arm. That means those who say they support the right to bear arms but advocate that people should only CC.... are really supporting the government's control of who is given, or denied, the privilege of bearing a concealed arm. And by arguing in favor of the government's permit system those folks are actually supporting ............. gun control.

And doesn't History show that the real Nazi's in Germany were in favor of.... gun control?

Another AMEN is in order, me thinks.

Those who favor both methods of carry, and I am one of those, have to also accept the fact that with the exception of four states, we have to apply for and receive permission to carry concealed where concealed (barring Illinois) permits are issued. You are absolutely correct in your assessment that a permit to carry a firearm, openly or concealed, is an infringement of the kind mentioned in the Second Amendment and in the constitutions of most states. I see only one currently valid reason for issuing permits to carry concealed and that is this.

The federal Gun Free School Zone law, even though declared to be unconstitutional, is still on the books and therefore could be used against someone. While this sounds strange since it is unconstitutional, most people do not want to be a test case. And there is a quirk in this law in that it says nothing about a permit at all. What it does say is;

(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—

(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

Notice, it says nothing about a permit. It says "if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State". In Virginia, as in most states, there is no such thing as being licensed to possess a firearm so literally, this means that regardless of whether or not you have a concealed carry permit, you still cannot be within 1000 feet of a school zone with a firearm. Of course we know that this is not how most interpret this law.

This just goes to show you the ignorance of people who write our laws.

 

[edstephan]

Another AMEN is in order, me thinks.

Those who favor both methods of carry, and I am one of those, have to also accept the fact that with the exception of four states, we have to apply for and receive permission to carry concealed where concealed (barring Illinois) permits are issued. You are absolutely correct in your assessment that a permit to carry a firearm, openly or concealed, is an infringement of the kind mentioned in the Second Amendment and in the constitutions of most states. I see only one currently valid reason for issuing permits to carry concealed and that is this.

The federal Gun Free School Zone law, even though declared to be unconstitutional, is still on the books and therefore could be used against someone. While this sounds strange since it is unconstitutional, most people do not want to be a test case. And there is a quirk in this law in that it says nothing about a permit at all. What it does say is;

(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—

(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

Notice, it says nothing about a permit. It says "if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State". In Virginia, as in most states, there is no such thing as being licensed to possess a firearm so literally, this means that regardless of whether or not you have a concealed carry permit, you still cannot be within 1000 feet of a school zone with a firearm. Of course we know that this is not how most interpret this law.

This just goes to show you the ignorance of people who write our laws.

In Pennsylvania we do have a License to Carry Firearms (LTCF). With this license we can carry concealed as well as transport. Without you can only transport to certain places without stopping. In Pennsylvania you can however carry openly without a LTCF while on foot only. You must have a LTCF to use any mode of transport except by horse or cow because they are not considered vehicles. Currently we are lobbing for Constitutional carry as well as Disparity of Force to be passed.

Also the term firearm under Title 18 of PA Code, Uniform Firearms Act, 6102. Definitions are as follows: "Firearm." Any pistol or revolver with a barrel length less than 15 inches, any shotgun with a barrel length less than 18 inches or any rifle with a barrel length less than 16 inches, or any pistol, revolver, rifle or shotgun with an overall length of less than 26 inches. The barrel length of a firearm shall be determined by measuring from the muzzle of the barrel to the face of the closed action, bolt or cylinder, whichever is applicable. Long Guns under Pa Law are covered by the PA Game/Wildlife code.

I personally don't care how another carries, because they are as concerned for their safety as I am concerned to me and my loved ones safety. I am however an OC Activist because it is an clear expression of our Freedoms. I open carry because in 1984 I got caught up in my cover garment and ended up getting stabbed because I couldn't clear, still I survived he didn't. A lesson I do not want repeated.

An Oath Keeper and Open Carry Activist, 1 of the 3%
Ed Stephan

 

[CharlesMorrison]

And a very important thing I would like for people to understand... a carry "permit" is NOT the right to bear arms! It is the exact kind of infringement referred to in "shall not be infringed" because it is the government in charge of giving.. or denying.. permission to who can, and who cannot!, bear an arm in a concealed manner. It annoys me to no end to have a CC'er complain about OC... and then say they support the right to bear arms. They are NOT supporting the right to bear arms... they are supporting the government's control of bearing concealed arms!!!!!!

Let me help you out here;
Link Removed

 

[Etkini]

I open and concealed carry.. I have nothing against either method, and fortunately my state gives me the right to bear arms in whatever method I please without having to ask for permission to exercise my right. And not only that, people hardly ever notice or act like they notice when I am OCing, and it's surprising as well considering I have never seen anyone in southern Vermont OCing. In fact, the only chats I've had about it were "nice piece" or "what kind of holster is that?" I haven't had any run-ins with the local LEOs yet, but I also don't go out of my way to test their knowledge of my rights either.

Not only that, I have NEVER seen a "Gun Free Zone" sign. My local post office has the 18 U.S.C. § 930: US Code - Section 930 sign hanging up, but that's about it.

I also believe we as legal firearm owners shouldn't be engaging in petty squabbles about whether we should be carrying this way or that way, instead we should be sticking together ensuring our rights stay that way, as rights. I really can't believe some of the banter I see about "You should CC because.. blah blah element of surprise" or "You should OC because.. blah blah this and that." We should be more worried about that fact that California is trying to shut down OC\CC all together - you may say it doesn't matter to you but what's going to happen when CA does it, then NY does it, then the states or even the Feds try following it.. then will it matter?

 

[Firefighterchen]

Lol thugs...apparently when asked to provide real world proof of all the lies being spread about open carry, we are "thugs" who only promote OC and nothing else...and then he questions why we consider him a brady lite member?!!?! Insanity!

Let's just spread a ton of lies about conceal carrying, then when they call us on it, we can just call them names and say they are "gangsters who just want everyone to kill each other with their hidden firearms," while giving no supporting evidence of our new found "facts". Then we can throw in some words like, "reasonable, acceptable, appropriate, common sense, courteously, warm fuzzy feelings," so that we can all feel good about ourselves.

 

[Bikenut]

I open and concealed carry.. I have nothing against either method, and fortunately my state gives me the right to bear arms in whatever method I please without having to ask for permission to exercise my right. And not only that, people hardly ever notice or act like they notice when I am OCing, and it's surprising as well considering I have never seen anyone in southern Vermont OCing. In fact, the only chats I've had about it were "nice piece" or "what kind of holster is that?" I haven't had any run-ins with the local LEOs yet, but I also don't go out of my way to test their knowledge of my rights either.

Not only that, I have NEVER seen a "Gun Free Zone" sign. My local post office has the 18 U.S.C. § 930: US Code - Section 930 sign hanging up, but that's about it.

I also believe we as legal firearm owners shouldn't be engaging in petty squabbles about whether we should be carrying this way or that way, instead we should be sticking together ensuring our rights stay that way, as rights. I really can't believe some of the banter I see about "You should CC because.. blah blah element of surprise" or "You should OC because.. blah blah this and that." We should be more worried about that fact that California is trying to shut down OC\CC all together - you may say it doesn't matter to you but what's going to happen when CA does it, then NY does it, then the states or even the Feds try following it.. then will it matter?

I agree wholeheartedly with you that entirely too much time and effort is spent with folks arguing about which method of carry is best. The truth is... neither OC nor CC nor even both at the same time will always be the best for every person under every circumstance. But... as far as getting gun owners together in agreement is kinda like trying to herd cats.

But I'd like to mention something about the part of your post I put in bold... not because it is a bad thing nor am I chastising you because such is not my intention... but because understanding what a "right" is is very important.

The State (government at any level) does not "give" us rights. We own all of our rights simply because we were born as a human being. All of our rights come with us when we pop out of the womb. We are born with our rights simply because we were born.

What the State (government) does is "restrict" the rights we were born already owning with laws that assess penalties for actually exercising them.

For example: We are born with the right to bear arms.. to bear arms in any manner we wish and when the government enacts a law requiring a concealed carry permit in order to carry a hidden gun that law is a restriction on the right to bear arms that we were born with because instead of us being in control of how we want to bear arms the government is now in control of who has.. and who HASN'T.. permission to bear a hidden arm. And those who do it anyway but don't have permission are punished by penalties the government put in place to require folks to obey.

The 2nd Amendment's wording of "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed" means the people already have the right... and the "shall not be infringed" is telling the government to leave that right alone.

The government.. Federal or State or even local... does not "give" us the right to bear arms. We already have that right and all the gun control laws/permit systems are the government's attempts to................. "infringe" (restrict/control/take away).

Ok... here is more... No matter what restrictions/laws/permits/or penalties the government puts upon the right to bear arms... we never lose the right itself! .. we always have the right... but the penalties for actually exercising the right might be so onerous that no one dares do it. And that is exactly what governments intent on controlling it's people always do. History shows that any government that wants to control it's people first removes the people's ability to arm themselves.

The government doesn't "give" rights... governments "take away" the ability to exercise rights.

 

[Etkini]

I do realize after the fact I should have said "my state does not attempt to limit my right." I think I'm still a bit jaded from having lived in NYS for 20+ years, where if I wanted to exercise my right I had to not only hold out my hand and beg for permission but also my wallet, I also had to allow them to probe almost every aspect of my life and then turn around and wait 6+ months only to be turned down because some failed lawyer (judge) is having a bad day. I suppose I'm just still in awe at how inane NY's laws regarding the Second Amendment really are now that I live in a free state, whether it be the AWB or their limiting use on almost every type of firearm.

Although I realize you can never technically lose your right, living in a state such as NY, IL or CA, it surely feels like you are not allowed without restriction the same rights as the rest of the country. It truly feels like I have moved to a different country and I only moved 30 miles.

 

[CharlesMorrison]

That's why here in Vermont, it is called "Constitutional Carry". Our state Constitution affirms that it is our Right to carry as we see fit.

“That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the State -- and as standing armies in time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; and that the military should be kept under strict subordination to and governed by the civil power.”

 

[Rocket8686]

I open Carry EVERYWERE, unless its posted On PRIVATE property No weapons permitted unless LEO.

Ive opened carried in bars,grocery stores, party stores,banks,hospitals(which they didn't mind or ask me to leave), Pretty much where i Went the gun went.

Ive had new CPL carriers approach me asking if ive been harassed by OC. Police here dont harass you if you follow the law.

 

[Firefighterchen]

I want to here from the guys who have tried it. Did you like it? Will you change modes of carry? Did you try, but never again? If you never gave it a reasonable try, don't post. If you only did in your house, don't post. Hunting doesn't count either. I'm talking about "out and about" without mentioning Walmart. Ok, I was just kidding about Walmart. You guys get the idea.

I open Carry EVERYWERE, unless its posted On PRIVATE property No weapons permitted unless LEO.

Ive opened carried in bars,grocery stores, party stores,banks,hospitals(which they didn't mind or ask me to leave), Pretty much where i Went the gun went.

Ive had new CPL carriers approach me asking if ive been harassed by OC. Police here dont harass you if you follow the law.

Which state do you live in?

 

[Dan Cox]

I live in Socialist held Territory... Illinois. Ten minutes from Wisconsin and I love to Open Carry there. I use a Military type Thigh Holster, very comfortable and easy access, no matter if I'm sitting, standing or whatever. I have been to Milwaukee and had no issues with the LEO"s, one asked where I got the Thigh Holster. I think he just wanted to make conversation and see where my head was at, I enjoy talking to people and it is diffenately a conversation starter with the guy's who are CCW. I have a Arizona Non Resident CCW License, so I sometimes Conceal Carry in Wisconsin, like at the Harley Museum. That was cool, but I prefer Open Carry.

 

[Rocket8686]

Live in Michigan

 

[Billy_B]

Last night we went out to eat a a very popular Mexican Resturant. There were Six of us which included mymother who is 86 yrsold My sister who lives in Boston Mass. My daughter and her son and my wife and I. A man probably in his Mid 60s wilth long hair and a beard sat at the table next to us and as he began to sit down he removed his jacket exposing his side arm. There was to attempt to hide the weapon on his part and his holster was in no way designed to be concealed. Everyone at our table noticed the weapon. Only two people comented on it at our table. My sister when she said "what's this do you live in the wild west" and my grandsons response to her " I like it it makes me feel safer". Everyone in my family knows that I carry concealed and they forget about it. My sister thinks I'm nuts, but everyone else excepts it. I think its all in the area in which you live. Here in Misssouri most people don't think anything of or about open carry or concealed carry for that matter. If your from Mass, Ill, or Calif guns make your nervious. No one else in the resturant seemed to notice the open carry gun.

 

[kerb]

In Pennsylvania we do have a License to Carry Firearms (LTCF). With this license we can carry concealed as well as transport. Without you can only transport to certain places without stopping. In Pennsylvania you can however carry openly without a LTCF while on foot only. You must have a LTCF to use any mode of transport except by horse or cow because they are not considered vehicles. Currently we are lobbing for Constitutional carry as well as Disparity of Force to be passed.

Also the term firearm under Title 18 of PA Code, Uniform Firearms Act, 6102. Definitions are as follows: "Firearm." Any pistol or revolver with a barrel length less than 15 inches, any shotgun with a barrel length less than 18 inches or any rifle with a barrel length less than 16 inches, or any pistol, revolver, rifle or shotgun with an overall length of less than 26 inches. The barrel length of a firearm shall be determined by measuring from the muzzle of the barrel to the face of the closed action, bolt or cylinder, whichever is applicable. Long Guns under Pa Law are covered by the PA Game/Wildlife code.

I personally don't care how another carries, because they are as concerned for their safety as I am concerned to me and my loved ones safety. I am however an OC Activist because it is an clear expression of our Freedoms. I open carry because in 1984 I got caught up in my cover garment and ended up getting stabbed because I couldn't clear, still I survived he didn't. A lesson I do not want repeated.

An Oath Keeper and Open Carry Activist, 1 of the 3%
Ed Stephan

Ed, what's an Oath Keeper?
Does it refer to an organization?

Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk 2

 

[Etkini]

Ed, what's an Oath Keeper?
Does it refer to an organization?

Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk 2

Oath Keepers is a non-profit organization that advocates it's members to uphold the Constitution in situations where they might be ordered to violate it.

 

[edstephan]

Ed, what's an Oath Keeper?
Does it refer to an organization?

Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk 2

Oath Keepers » Oath Keepers – Guardians of the Republic
Oath Keepers is a non-partisan association of current and formerly serving military, reserves, National Guard, veterans, Peace Officers, and Fire Fighters who will fulfill the Oath we swore, with the support of like-minded citizens who take an Oath to stand with us, to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, so help us God.
Our Oath is to the Constitution and never expires.
I took my oath in September 1974 when I went in the Corps 3BN 1MR. Some took theirs when they became Police Officers, others were elected to an office, and some just took theirs for the country, etc...

Have you taken the Oath?

Declaration of Orders We Will NOT Obey
1. We will NOT obey any order to disarm the American people.
2. We will NOT obey any order to conduct warrantless searches of the American people, their homes, vehicles, papers, or effects -- such as warrantless house-to house searches for weapons or persons.
3. We will NOT obey any order to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to trial by military tribunal.
4. We will NOT obey orders to impose martial law or a “state of emergency” on a state, or to enter with force into a state, without the express consent and invitation of that state’s legislature and governor.
5. We will NOT obey orders to invade and subjugate any state that asserts its sovereignty and declares the national government to be in violation of the compact by which that state entered the Union.
6. We will NOT obey any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps.
7. We will NOT obey any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext.
8. We will NOT obey orders to assist or support the use of any foreign troops on U.S. soil against the American people to “keep the peace” or to “maintain control” during any emergency, or under any other pretext. We will consider such use of foreign troops against our people to be an invasion and an act of war.
9. We will NOT obey any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies, under any emergency pretext whatsoever.
10. We will NOT obey any orders which infringe on the right of the people to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition their government for a redress of grievances.

An Oath Keeper and Open Carry Activist, 1 of the 3%
Ed Stephan