Flying and Transportation of Firearms.

I read the TSA requirements. Just seeing if anyone had any experience with the process. My wife seems to think I'm paranoid for taking my gun with me.
I've flown with a gun numerous times. It's generally a non-event if you're familiar with the procedure. You're already ahead of the curve by looking up the rules and asking questions ahead of time. Most ticket agents are happy to find a passenger who has prepared in advance. I often get the impression that many gun owners don't bother to check the rules before travelling, which reflects badly on all of us.

Tell the ticket agent you need to declare an unloaded firearm. They may or may not need to inspect it at the counter, depending on the procedures at that airport. The ticket agent will give you a tag, usually orange, that will be placed inside the suitcase with the locked gun case. At some airports, the ticket agent will take your bag from there and that's it. At other airports you will have to go through another TSA check-in, where they will most likely ask you to open the case, or ask for the key, so they can confirm that the gun is unloaded and has been packed properly.

I actually gave an impromptu class once for three ticket agents and a TSA agent in Dayton Ohio on how to check a semiauto handgun to see if it was loaded. I had arrived very early for a flight and no one else was around. When the ticket agent mentioned she was supposed to confirm that the gun was unloaded but she didn't know how, I volunteered to teach her. I guess she felt comfortable with that because my ID had already told her I was retired military, but that's just a guess. She turned and invited the other two ticket agents and the TSA agent who overheard walked over to see as well. I spent about five minutes with them explaining different variations they might see, and expressing heavily the safety aspects. They all knew revolvers, but not semiautos. The TSA guy was relatively new, and he said they went over it really fast in training.

As was noted earlier, check airline requirements in addition to TSA's. Some airlines will supplement what TSA says. Also, the ticket agent may not even know the requirements. I've even had that happen with a TSA agent once. For that reason I always take a copy of the TSA requirements and the airline policies with me. The misinformed TSA agent I ran into one time wouldn't budge until I showed him the requirement from the TSA web site in black and white right in front of his face. I had to dig into my bag to find it, and now it's front and center every time I check in, right next to my tickets and ID card.

Technically you can pack your ammunition in the same container as the gun, but Title 49 CFR part 175 requires that ammo be packed in a case made for ammo. You can't have loaded magazines, speed loaders, stripper clips, etc. With that in mind, if you're packing that all in with your gun, that's going to be one mighty big locked case, so I suggest just packing the ammo seperately. The magazines, speed loaders, stripper clips are supposed to be packaged too. I take one of the lockboxes (like this one) out of my truck and pack both my gun and the empty magazines in it.

274442.jpg


This also gives me a lock box to use in my rental car and/or hotel at my destination. Then I pack my ammo in one of those cheap plastic ammo boxes and tape it shut.

One thing to keep in mind is that TSA uses 'sniffers' to detect the presence of explosives in baggage and there's always the chance that they'll generate a 'hit' on the gunpowder residue from your gun and/or accessories. I've never had this happen, but the possibility always exists so keeps your ears open in case they page you to come open the case.

NEVER use a TSA lock on a gun case. Not only is that a violation of the rules, it's also very easy and very common for criminals to get a TSA key. When they see a TSA lock, it just screams, "STEAL ME!!!!!"
 
At other airports you will have to go through another TSA check-in, where they will most likely ask you to open the case, or ask for the key, so they can confirm that the gun is unloaded and has been packed properly.

They can certainly ask for the key, but it would be against the Federal regulation to hand the key over to them.
 
At all of the NYC Airports plus select other NY State airports (Westchester has done this to me and Albany is rumored to do it as well), you will be referred to a police officer who will ask for your permit or law enforcement ID to verify that you are in possession of the firearm legally before they check your bag in. If you don't have the right credentials or right answers, you get re-routed, almost always in handcuffs.
 
They can certainly ask for the key, but it would be against the Federal regulation to hand the key over to them.
How so? How are they supposed to inspect the weapon if they can't open the case?

This is from their web site:
Travelers should remain in the area designated by the aircraft operator or TSA representative to take the key back after the container is cleared for transportation.
Kinda hard for them to give your key back if you refused to hand it to them in the first place. If you want to fly, you'll let them inspect your case when they ask to.
 
Our local airport is installing body scanners this week. Looks like rental cars and driving to places from now on. Which is fine with me, my wife refuses to take our daughter through the machines. I side with her on that decision 100%.

There are reports out now showing high concentrations of radiation over prolonged use and why did Europe vote against their use? Must be something to the claims. The power/corporate elite create a product/solution then create the problem to install said product/solution to rake billions off the sheeple.
 
How so? How are they supposed to inspect the weapon if they can't open the case?

This is from their web site:
Kinda hard for them to give your key back if you refused to hand it to them in the first place. If you want to fly, you'll let them inspect your case when they ask to.

I already answered your question. From the Code of Federal Regulations:
Title 49: Transportation
§ 1540.111 Carriage of weapons, explosives, and incendiaries by individuals.

(c) In checked baggage. A passenger may not transport or offer for transport in checked baggage or in baggage carried in an inaccessible cargo hold under §1562.23 of this chapter:
(2) Any unloaded firearm(s) unless—

(i) The passenger declares to the aircraft operator, either orally or in writing, before checking the baggage, that the passenger has a firearm in his or her bag and that it is unloaded;

(ii) The firearm is unloaded;

(iii) The firearm is carried in a hard-sided container; and

(iv) The container in which it is carried is locked, and only the passenger retains the key or combination.

It is extremely easy for them to inspect the firearm without violating the Federal regulation:

TSA: Sir, will you please open this case so we may inspect it?
Passenger: Sure. No problem.

Passenger unlocks the case, retaining the key/combo, in accordance with Federal regulation.

TSA: Thank you, sir, everything is in order here, will you please re-lock the case?
Passenger: Sure. No problem.

Passenger re-locks the case, retaining the key/combo, in accordance with Federal regulation.

See? Just ain't that hard is it? If you want to fly, I would suggest following the requirements contained in Federal regulations. A website is just a website. Federal regulations mean the difference between going to jail or receiving a fine or not.

We, as citizens of the government, have the duty and responsibility to ensure that the government obeys the regulations just as much as we have the duty to obey them.
 
I already answered your question. From the Code of Federal Regulations:

(iv) The container in which it is carried is locked, and only the passenger retains the key or combination.
Retain means keeping the key. It doesn't in any way mean they can't have the key to open the container. It only means they have to give it back to you when they're done.

It is extremely easy for them to inspect the firearm without violating the Federal regulation:
Yes, it is, and I've done it many times.

TSA: Sir, would you please give me the key so I can inspect your firearm?

Passenger: Sure. Here ya go.

Tell you what. You take a flight and refuse to give them your key, and I'll take a flight like I always do, and we'll see who actually gets to fly. You won't be flying if you refuse to hand over your key when they ask, and no TSA agent has ever allowed me to open the case myself. Ticket agents, yes. TSA agents, no, which in a way makes sense I guess because they don't want you holding a gun in your hand at a security checkpoint. Then again, I can't say I've flown out of every airport in the U.S., so there may be some local differences, but there's nothing in the regulations that prevents them from having your key temporarily to open the case.
 
Retain means keeping the key. It doesn't in any way mean they can't have the key to open the container. It only means they have to give it back to you when they're done.

Is your IQ really that lacking? SERIOUSLY?

retain: to KEEP in possession or use.

You hand the key to another person, the key is no longer in your possession. You have retained NOTHING. It does not matter if you give the key to a bum on the street, the pope, or some official wearing a uniform and a badge. If the regulation meant for you to give the key to TSA then it would not say ONLY the passenger retains the kay. It would say the passenger retains the key, with the exception of providing the key to TSA for inspection. They even put the word ONLY in the regulation, meaning NO ONE else gets the key, for any reason. Grow up. Your error is right there in black and white in the regulations in very specific language.
 
retain: to KEEP in possession or use.
That's right. You get to keep it after they check the container. And your cheap shots do nothing to help your argument. But like I said, you don't have to take my word for it. Feel free to fly and refuse to hand over your key when they ask, then see how far you get. Just do all of us a favor and have someone video it for our entertainment afterwards.

And since you're so tied up with black and white, how did you skip over what I posted from the TSA web site?

Travelers should remain in the area designated by the aircraft operator or TSA representative to take the key back after the container is cleared for transportation.
The traveler 'taking the key back' means he had to have given it to the aircraft operator or TSA in the first place, thus disproving your theory. That's from the same link I posted earlier.
 
And since you're so tied up with black and white, how did you skip over what I posted from the TSA web site?

The traveler 'taking the key back' means he had to have given it to the aircraft operator or TSA in the first place, thus disproving your theory. That's from the same link I posted earlier.

I did not skip over the website. I addressed it:

I already answered your question. ... A website is just a website. Federal regulations mean the difference between going to jail or receiving a fine or not.

We, as citizens of the government, have the duty and responsibility to ensure that the government obeys the regulations just as much as we have the duty to obey them.

So, I guess what you are telling us, Mr. Rhino, is that a government employee has never given false information over the phone, written false information in a document, or posted false information on a website? I can prove that one wrong.

Current government website containing erroneous information:

ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Unlicensed Persons

Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

Admission by the exact same governmental agency that their website is in error:

Link Removed

Whatever, though. Everybody has been presented the facts and they can make whatever choice they choose to make.
 
To the original question, as the other posters say, it's easy, safe and doesn't take much more time at all. I've done it a dozen times and I have never had a problem. They must track the bags with weapons in them better b/c they have never "lost" my bag with a declared weapon in it, but loose my regular bags all the time!
 
So, I guess what you are telling us, Mr. Rhino, is that a government employee has never given false information over the phone, written false information in a document, or posted false information on a website?
You guessed wrong. I never said any such thing. And who peed in your corn flakes? You seem to have an overpowering urge to pick a fight. Federal regulations do indeed mean the difference between going to jail or receiving a fine or not. And who enforces those federal regulations? The same people who wrote that web site, the same people who ask for your key and the same people who will not let you fly if you refuse to give it to them. The TSA. Like I said, don't listen to me. Go play high and mighty with them and see how far it gets you.
 
So, assuming i follow all airline and tsa rules and regs, can i be in breach of some local jurisdictions if i have a layover or plane switch en route to my destination? Is this what happened in NYC recentpy?
My fathr flew to oklahoma a couple years ago and brought a pistol with him, according to all regs. It was a direct flight. As i asked before, if he had had a layover and or fpight switch on his way, could there have been the posibility of an issue in the stat of the lay over? A little more info, he flew from Arizona to oklahoma, direct flight.
Mark S.
 
So, assuming i follow all airline and tsa rules and regs, can i be in breach of some local jurisdictions if i have a layover or plane switch en route to my destination? Is this what happened in NYC recentpy?
My fathr flew to oklahoma a couple years ago and brought a pistol with him, according to all regs. It was a direct flight. As i asked before, if he had had a layover and or fpight switch on his way, could there have been the posibility of an issue in the stat of the lay over? A little more info, he flew from Arizona to oklahoma, direct flight.
Mark S.

If you take possession of your luggage containing the firearm in a prohibited location....yes, you may be committing a crime, violating local laws. You might be able to have the airline hold your luggage and forward it to your next flight if you end up with a delay requiring you to spend the night in a prohibited location.
 
Handing over the key

I flew out from Newark and the clerk at the check-in desk said I should give her my key and the TSA agent in the bcl would check it and bring the key back to me.

I politely informed her about the regulation and mentioned that it was to protect everyone involved. I said, God forbid there should be an accident, the law wants to make it clear that they (the check-in agent) nor the TSA agent could be responsible.

She got the person to come outside, inspect my weapon and then I locked it up and try took my bag to the conveyor belt.

No muss, no fuss - took an extra 2 minutes and no one got arrested. Ya know why? Cause I was polite and explained myself well - you will most likely be arrested because of your attitude.
 
Also worth noting that even if you are correct and totally legal, you might be vindicated after a lengthy jail stay and a few court appearances. Best to stay away from states like NY and keep your mouth shut if you accidentally go there. .
 

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