Flint Police came to my house today and......

[tricolordad]

On your own damn property..... well good luck up there in the next communist state. Whom can you blame. Oh yes, the people elected by the citizens of MI.

I also have to have my CHP with me when concealed and NOT on my property. I have carried concealed all day, in my home, on my property, and my CHP has been in my wallet, on my dresser. When I went to the store, I took my ID and CHP with me.

The sherriffs dept here is real good about not violating your rights. I saw an elderly neighbor get beat up (500 some feet away) by some road rager and while we were waiting for deputies to show up, he went and got his 9mm and tucked it in his waistband. He told the deputy he had it but the deputy interrupted him saying "you're on private property, it's your right." Didn't even flinch about my OC, only asked me to clear it before I leaned against his car while writing a statement. I feel bad for you up there in Michigan. You need to work with legislators to get a state preemption of gun laws on the books.

 

[jcreek]

So you are saying that harassment of citizens by city cops is the normal in Flint?

In NC, I must have my permit and ID on me if I am concealed, BUT NOT on my own damn property.

I can also carry open without my permit OR ID anyplace it is legal to carry a firearm. If I have my shorts on, and open carrying my gun, I don't have to 'hide it' to go to the mail box, or walk my dogs down the road.

Cops get used to citizens rolling over and surrendering their rights, and to play their game only fosters that mindset in the cops. The cop could stand on the sidewalk or in the street and ask you questions. You have NO obligation to even identify yourself to them. What would their 'probably cause' be for thinking you were vandalizing the home by planting flowers or weeding?

Starting to get the impression you and I are going to disagree on everything. Oh well.

If you don't know Flint, then I can't explain it. Imagine a little Detroit, car makers bailing on the city, city finances going downhill, extreme budget cuts in the PD. Corruption in high places, moral low, lots of crime. PD understaffed, overworked. If they were responding at all to a gun call, they would be cautious.

Read the statutes MCL 324.1608 Michigan Legislature - Section 324.1608 and MCL 750.81d Michigan Legislature - Section 750.81d . Both of these statutes define as a crime one who resists or obstructs an officer in the performance of his or her duties or enforcement of the law. Regardless of whether asking for ID could be considered performance of duties (which it most certainly is) or enforcing the law OR even if the refusal is not considered resisting/obstructing, would it be worth hiring an attorney to fight it?

Just my extremely humble opinion.

You need to brush up on your case law bud. Federal courts have ruled that you are only required to produce ID to a LEO upon demand when he can articulate reasonable suspicion that you have, or are about to commit a crime. Since openly carrying a firearm, or any method of carrying a firearm on your own property, is not a crime you have no duty to identify yourself to the officer. The LEO cannot charge you with obstruction for exercising your Constitutional rights.

 

[Icemanii]

Well, since this is MI and it is part of the CCW legistation, I think I will just go with what they state. I am not citing case law, I just provided the legislation that is written into the CCW rules to get your permit here in this state.
I cited the section in the code, you cited.....?

Every state is different, everyone is free to react how they wish. As stated by the OP, there was a person with a gun call placed (would that count as resonable suspicion?), they arrived and observed him with a weapon. They inquired, he was good with the outcome. A shooting occured shortly in the vicinity, perhaps by the actual person with a gun. We will never know.

 

[dogshawred]

Boy! I cannot stress enough how glad I am that I live in Vermont and I don't have to deal with all this BS!
I don't know how you guys put up with it all!


Sent from behind enemy lines.

You really enjoy rubbing that in don't ya? :dance3: :dance3:
I guess I would too if I could. :lol: :haha:

 

[dakotaracing]

In my own yard?!!
It's none of their or anyone else's damn business how I'm carrying or what.
And he sure would not have touched my gun.

 

[jrs]

According to MI law, Police were at my home investigating a Felonious Assault Complaint [thats what waving a gun around technically is being there is no technical term in Michigan regarding brandishing] the encounter went well especially under the circumstances, sadly in Flint, Police usually have to act, especially on a possible MWAG situation, and unfortunately, obviously the complainant was wrong, he/she did not stick around to file the paperwork, although I am sure the Police received a name of some sort, which again may or may not have been correct. Am I happy I had 3 Police w/ weapons drawn [pointing down] with my wife and son [7 mo old] in the front yard? Hell no. But then again, Id rather cooperate with the police than have guns pointed at me or be tased for no reason, although it could be justified by Police, and I am sure our Liberal Prosecutor would agree with them, Id rather not waste the time of myself and put my family through something unneeded or lose my CPL over sometime stupid,when all I have to do is kill with kindness.

I completely agree that it's shameful that you had them show up because of some liberal who had to lie to harass you while you practiced "quiet enjoyment" of your Constitutional rights.
I also see that many in this forum are giving you grief for actually being cooperative with the police. They seem to be of the notion that you exercise your rights...period...no matter what the outcome may be. I really believe that if you displayed an adversarial attitude, then encounter would have gone south real fast.
You made the right decision and "picked your battle" wisely.
If you told them to "get a warrant...I'm on my own land"...they certainly would have. Then you likely would have had the privilege of giving your 7 month old son a kiss through a piece of glass while your attorney (for a price) figured the whole thing out.

Don't get me wrong...I am a staunch advocate for protection of out Constitutional Rights and hate what the Liar In Chief and his administration is doing to stomp on them, but I am also a realist. I had an old boss who used to say "Pride is a great thing...if you can afford it"...so to those who will stand their ground with LEO no matter what...I hope you have a BIG bank account and enjoy writing checks to your attorneys. For the rest of us, we will continue to assess the situation, let cooler heads prevail, deal with LEO politely as Itstjs did and go on with our yardwork.....mad...YES, outraged...YES, free to keep on gardening...YES.

 

[tricolordad]

I completely agree that it's shameful that you had them show up because of some liberal who had to lie to harass you while you practiced "quiet enjoyment" of your Constitutional rights.
I also see that many in this forum are giving you grief for actually being cooperative with the police. They seem to be of the notion that you exercise your rights...period...no matter what the outcome may be. I really believe that if you displayed an adversarial attitude, then encounter would have gone south real fast.
You made the right decision and "picked your battle" wisely.
If you told them to "get a warrant...I'm on my own land"...they certainly would have. Then you likely would have had the privilege of giving your 7 month old son a kiss through a piece of glass while your attorney (for a price) figured the whole thing out.

Don't get me wrong...I am a staunch advocate for protection of out Constitutional Rights and hate what the Liar In Chief and his administration is doing to stomp on them, but I am also a realist. I had an old boss who used to say "Pride is a great thing...if you can afford it"...so to those who will stand their ground with LEO no matter what...I hope you have a BIG bank account and enjoy writing checks to your attorneys. For the rest of us, we will continue to assess the situation, let cooler heads prevail, deal with LEO politely as Itstjs did and go on with our yardwork.....mad...YES, outraged...YES, free to keep on gardening...YES.

It's called "property rights." Get a fence and PRIVATE PROPERTY or NO TRESPASSING signs, they will stay across the fence. Your realism is a fear of someone else's fear, which is stupid.

 

[Ringo]

Amen brother, don't have to deal with it here in TN.

We don't have to deal with any of it here in ARIZONA either. We have a message for all anti-gunners where I live...Link Removed

 

[r1derbike]

I'm glad I live in AR and know my neighbors! This would not happen in my crime watch neighborhood. We pretty much have it in check, with one neighbor reporting on close crime scenes by sending us instant emails.

Sounds like it went well for you.

 

[tricolordad]

We don't have to deal with any of it here in ARIZONA either. We have a message for all anti-gunners where I live...Link Removed

Bwaaahahaa! where did you get that?

 

[Ringo]

Bwaaahahaa! where did you get that?

Bought it from guy selling flags out of a roadside trailer.

 

[whodat2710]

I love how all these "experts" start citing legal opinions. Other than the guy that posted from the applicable states CCW laws, take it with a grain of salt. As far as the hippie neighbor, I'm not so sure they have been shut down. All they may know is that they made the cops confront you and think they won. If you know who the neighbor is, I'd watch out for future "problems" with them... and maybe toss some of your spent cartridges in THEIR driveway just to see the fireworks

 

[jrs]

It's called "property rights." Get a fence and PRIVATE PROPERTY or NO TRESPASSING signs, they will stay across the fence. Your realism is a fear of someone else's fear, which is stupid.

OK, so what you're saying is if someone reported you "waving your gun around", you really think that your PRIVATE PROPERTY and NO TRESPASSING signs are going to stop them at your fence? Now that's stupid.

I don't fear speaking my mind, OR exercising my rights, and I'm definitely NOT STUPID!!!

 

[R.Eliott89]

We don't have to deal with any of it here in ARIZONA either. We have a message for all anti-gunners where I live...Link Removed

HAHA that is awesome!!

 

[tricolordad]

OK, so what you're saying is if someone reported you "waving your gun around", you really think that your PRIVATE PROPERTY and NO TRESPASSING signs are going to stop them at your fence? Now that's stupid.

I don't fear speaking my mind, OR exercising my rights, and I'm definitely NOT STUPID!!!

can and does. add a closed and locked gate with visible motion sensors and a camera. They arent stupid. They would have to break it to investigate legal behavior, all on camera.

 

[apvbguy]

I love how all these "experts" start citing legal opinions. Other than the guy that posted from the applicable states CCW laws, take it with a grain of salt. As far as the hippie neighbor, I'm not so sure they have been shut down. All they may know is that they made the cops confront you and think they won. If you know who the neighbor is, I'd watch out for future "problems" with them... and maybe toss some of your spent cartridges in THEIR driveway just to see the fireworks

advocating harassment is not wise nor prudent

 

[rotjovi]

This post wasn't about rights or case law. Christ, he just was saying it was a pleasant experience with the PD.
I love the posts, "Not in MY yard" and "He wouldn't have touched my gun." Yes, the PD would have.
He had a pleasant experience with GOOD cops doing their job on a firearm complaint.
Sorry OP, but the "Armchair Tough Guys" took this thread out of hand. Thanks for sharing your pleasant experience.
As far as the "Tough Guys" screaming about their rights, they would have had guns pointed at them. Imagine the next time they got pulled over for something after not cooperating........

 

[XD40scinNC]

^^^^ a good encounter, for a police state maybe.

 

[wolf_fire]

Concealed means concealed. This could have gone way worse. Dress differently and do a bend over test before going outside . The life you save may well be yours.

Ummm, did you read that he then went in and wore it open carry. The fact remains, he was doing yard work in his own yard when some butt-in-ski called the cops on him. Apparently, he's allowed to open carry as well in his state. The other neighbor should have been arrested for false testimony to a law enforcement official.

 

[wolf_fire]

Glad you had a good encounter. You did everything to make a cop be at ease when they have a report with a man with a firearm. When they are at ease, things generally go more smoothly.

I also have to commend the cops for announcing why they were there. This let you be more at ease.

Problems arise when cops act poorly and the people they deal with act poorly. In this case, both sides acted professionally and there was a positive encounter with a LEO.