Fatally Shot In Chest - Still Fights For Awhile

Glasers are a horrible choice for defensive use.

9mms work absolutely as well as any other service caliber pistol round. Period. The caliber wars are only debated by folks with no education or field experience with wound ballistics.


Seriously, am I the only person who saw that the shooter in this video used a PUMP ACTION SHOTGUN?


This was an obvious case of using bean bags, no doubt pre-loaded due to the type of incident that police were responding to. That bean bags very often don't work to incapacitate people, but can kill people who are hit in the face or chest, is very well known.

What you saw here was a VERY poorly trained police force.


Google up the Pete Solis fight ref a car stop gone bad and a bad guy who took 20+ rounds of .40S&W 165gr Ranger-T "centermass" before he was stopped.

Such "failure to stop" events are common when pistol caliber weapons are used.
 
Glasers are a horrible choice for defensive use.

9mms work absolutely as well as any other service caliber pistol round. Period. The caliber wars are only debated by folks with no education or field experience with wound ballistics.


Seriously, am I the only person who saw that the shooter in this video used a PUMP ACTION SHOTGUN?


This was an obvious case of using bean bags, no doubt pre-loaded due to the type of incident that police were responding to. That bean bags very often don't work to incapacitate people, but can kill people who are hit in the face or chest, is very well known.

What you saw here was a VERY poorly trained police force.


Google up the Pete Solis fight ref a car stop gone bad and a bad guy who took 20+ rounds of .40S&W 165gr Ranger-T "centermass" before he was stopped.

Such "failure to stop" events are common when pistol caliber weapons are used.

Of course 9 mm is the best.

That is why the Seals, Special forces, the FBI have all gone to bigger bore. They don't know what they dare doing.
 
Of course 9 mm is the best.

That is why the Seals, Special forces, the FBI have all gone to bigger bore. They don't know what they dare doing.

I didn't say it was best, I said they all work about the same. Pistol calibers just poke holes in people, rifles tear stuff up. Anyone who thinks that any service caliber handgun round is significantly better than another is out of touch with reality.

The SEALs are still using the Sig 226, all of the SF guys I know are carrying Glock 19s OCONUS.

Kyle DeFoor is a well know SEAL that now teaches firearms all over the country, he said this ref handgun calibers when asked his opinion;

I'd rather go with 9mm. I believe that the additional recoil from .40 and the fact that no study has proven .40 better than 9 on a human makes 9 better for concealment, control, and accuracy.

9mm does a great job going through windshields, brick, wood, drywall, etc. I have shot these mediums on a monthly basis for years during certain courses. Conservatively, I've done these demos on about 300 or so vehicles. I always have some brick, wood, drywall, and different body armor on hand as well.
I appreciate the 1911's innovations 100 years ago. Without it we would not have the modern semis we have. But seriously, 7 shots? mediocre performance without heavy expensive mods? and a caliber that still is not proved is better than 9mm? - not for me.
 
I didn't say it was best, I said they all work about the same. Pistol calibers just poke holes in people, rifles tear stuff up. Anyone who thinks that any service caliber handgun round is significantly better than another is out of touch with reality.

The SEALs are still using the Sig 226, all of the SF guys I know are carrying Glock 19s OCONUS.

Kyle DeFoor is a well know SEAL that now teaches firearms all over the country, he said this ref handgun calibers when asked his opinion;

I'd rather go with 9mm. I believe that the additional recoil from .40 and the fact that no study has proven .40 better than 9 on a human makes 9 better for concealment, control, and accuracy.

9mm does a great job going through windshields, brick, wood, drywall, etc. I have shot these mediums on a monthly basis for years during certain courses. Conservatively, I've done these demos on about 300 or so vehicles. I always have some brick, wood, drywall, and different body armor on hand as well.
I appreciate the 1911's innovations 100 years ago. Without it we would not have the modern semis we have. But seriously, 7 shots? mediocre performance without heavy expensive mods? and a caliber that still is not proved is better than 9mm? - not for me.



Well.......sort of.

MK23 | NavySEALs.com - Experience the SEAL Edge
 
I imagine that the Seals can have just about anything they want, and each probably make their choices. Were I a Seal I imagine I might like a .45 but then as a civilian I don't have to use ball ammo. Then again with their shot placement I imagine a .25 Raven would work well enough for them. :)
 
Thanks for the research Old Curmudgeon!

Actually they do carry 9mm as a side arm, but it seems that when they are doing something serious, they prefer more clout.

I carry a Ruger .45 Colt.

For personal protection or perhaps I should say personnel protection, it is loaded with a 200 gr, 1100 fps hollow point at 537 ft/lbs. That lowers the risk of collateral injury.

When I am in the woods, it is loaded with a 300 gr. 1300 fps at 1126 ft/lbs. That is too much for self defence in a populated area.

The hollow point in the 200 gr. looks like the muzzle in the toys some folks carry.

I am not arguing with anyone. It suits me fine if I am the only guy in the room that is not carrying a toy.
 
mk23?

No one in the SEALs actually uses that thing. Seriously, no one.

Your commentary ref "toys" is ridiculous.
 
Seriously, am I the only person who saw that the shooter in this video used a PUMP ACTION SHOTGUN?

Shotgun? I don't see that.

It's obviously a long-gun, but the wound appears to be a single hole, not a collection of pellet wounds. I was wondering about earlier comments that it was a 9mm, never heard of a 9mm rifle. But whatever caliber it was, looks like a rifle to me, not a shotgun.
 
Of course 9 mm is the best.

That is why the Seals, Special forces, the FBI have all gone to bigger bore. They don't know what they dare doing.
Many police forces are shedding the 9mm too. The reason the .45ACP 1911 is around is the .38 was found not to work on drugged out Filipinos. It has to get relearned by each generation. 9mm was adopted for most military units over protests and only because the other militaries of NATO were using it. Those that needed it, kept the .45s. WV ordered 750 new S&W .45s for their State Troopers last year to replace 9s.
 
And the best part is that we get to chose what we use. If you want to carry a 9mm, fine, .45, fine, or a 2.7 Kolibri, that is your business. Whatever turns your worm.
 
.45acp 24/7, 365. 230gr to the chest...or two will end the fight. LE agencies across the country are going exclusively to this round. And for good reason.
 
Glasers are a horrible choice for defensive use.

9mms work absolutely as well as any other service caliber pistol round. Period. The caliber wars are only debated by folks with no education or field experience with wound ballistics.


Seriously, am I the only person who saw that the shooter in this video used a PUMP ACTION SHOTGUN?


This was an obvious case of using bean bags, no doubt pre-loaded due to the type of incident that police were responding to. That bean bags very often don't work to incapacitate people, but can kill people who are hit in the face or chest, is very well known.

What you saw here was a VERY poorly trained police force.


Google up the Pete Solis fight ref a car stop gone bad and a bad guy who took 20+ rounds of .40S&W 165gr Ranger-T "centermass" before he was stopped.

Such "failure to stop" events are common when pistol caliber weapons are used.
The shoot involved a Glock 22 loaded with 180 grain Gold Dots. Another shoot in PA. Same gun and ammo, bad guy kept fighting even after being hit with a .223 all COM. This is why head shot's are taught known as the body armour drill.
 
The shoot involved a Glock 22 loaded with 180 grain Gold Dots. Another shoot in PA. Same gun and ammo, bad guy kept fighting even after being hit with a .223 all COM. This is why head shot's are taught known as the body armour drill.

There are many who believe that a shot to the pelvic area, providing the caliber is sufficient, is better because it is larger, easier to hit, if missed vertically a hit on some other part of the body is likely. If the caliber is sufficient, bones that support the body are very likely to be broken causing the BG to collapse.
 
An excellent overview of the subject, with some rather startling facts, as well as reinforcement of many things I've lived and taught for a long time. 1st, have a gun. Any gun is better than none. 2nd, hit your target. A solid hit with a .22 is far more effective than a miss with anything. 3rd, carry the largest caliber you can reliably control and shoot well, AND will spend time training with.

Link Removed
An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power
Conclusion

This study took me a long time and a lot of effort to complete. Despite the work it took, I'm glad I did it. The results I got from the study lead me to believe that there really isn't that much difference between most defensive handgun rounds and calibers. None is a death ray, but most work adequately...even the lowly .22s. I've stopped worrying about trying to find the "ultimate" bullet. There isn't one. And I've stopped feeling the need to strap on my .45 every time I leave the house out of fear that my 9mm doesn't have enough "stopping power." Folks, carry what you want. Caliber really isn't all that important.

Take a look at the data. I hope it helps you decide what weapon to carry. No matter which gun you choose, pick one that is reliable and train with it until you can get fast accurate hits. Nothing beyond that really matters!

Greg Ellifritz is the full time firearms and defensive tactics training officer for a central Ohio police department. He holds instructor or master instructor certifications in more than 75 different weapon systems, defensive tactics programs and police specialty areas. Greg has a master's degree in Public Policy and Management and is an instructor for both the Ohio Peace Officer's Training Academy and the Tactical Defense Institute. He can be reached at [email protected]
 
He apparently didn't even realize that he had been shot immediately. If he had been armed with a gun he would have gotten a whole magazine at least before being out of action. A great example of the 1-shot stop falacy is the female cop in L.A who took a .357 mag to the heart and still put the shooter on the trailer. She also survived.
 
.45acp 24/7, 365. 230gr to the chest...or two will end the fight. LE agencies across the country are going exclusively to this round. And for good reason.

A single shot from a .22 will end the fight.....provided it hits the right spot. I agree that, all things being equal, a .45 ACP is just about the best realistic* carry round out there, but even with a .45 it still takes a precise shot to drop someone instantly, and no caliber can guarantee that. Even with a heavy-duty round there's still a good chance the perp will be able to shoot back, especially if they're jacked up on drugs....to say nothing of adrenaline.

* sure, a .44 mag, .500 mag or AE is more powerful but not really the best EDC for most people.
 
Yeah, I can just imagine lighting off a 444 in the house. It might take me a few minutes to recover from the blast and flash. Then there is the problem of where the bullet is going after it goes through the BG. A pistol or shotgun would be better.

 

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