Difference Between States


NCIC105

New member
You may have heard on the news about a Southern California man who was put under 72-hour psychiatric observation when it was found he owned 100 guns and allegedly had 100,000 rounds of ammunition stored in his home. The house also featured a secret escape tunnel.

By Southern California standards, someone owning 100,000 rounds is considered "mentally unstable."

In Michigan, he'd be called "The last white guy still living in Detroit."

In Arizona, he'd be called "an avid gun collector."

In Arkansas, he'd be called "a novice gun collector."

In Utah, he'd be called "moderately well prepared," but they'd probably reserve judgment until they made sure that he had a corresponding quantity of stored food."

In Kansas, he'd be "A guy down the road you would want to have for a friend."

In Montana, he'd be called "The neighborhood 'Go-To' guy."

In Alabama, he'd be called "a likely gubernatorial candidate."

In Georgia, he'd be called "an eligible bachelor."

In North Carolina, Virginia, Mississippi, Tennessee, Kentucky, Wisconsin and South Carolina he would be called "a deer hunting buddy."

And in Texas he'd just be "Bubba, who's a little short on ammo."
 

I remember a similar story a few years ago involving an elderly man living in New Jersey. If my memory serves me correctly, his guns were confiscated, despite the fact that he had committed no crime, and as far as I know, owning a lot of guns and ammo is also not a crime.
 
I live here in California and am quite stable.I also have plenty of friends here and everyone of them is stable. We all own firearms....... We all are here for each other. Some of us have businesses here. What kind of comment was that BHoffman? Hmmm!
 
I live here in California and am quite stable.I also have plenty of friends here and everyone of them is stable. We all own firearms....... We all are here for each other. Some of us have businesses here. What kind of comment was that BHoffman? Hmmm!

I commend you for owning firearms in a state that would love to see yours be confiscated and destroyed and have you placed in chains. Do the words Feinstein or Pelosi mean much to you?

I believe he was referencing why in the world would one still want to live in CA after the governmental leaders have continuously usurped the citizen's rights? Shoot, the ATF just recently ignored a court order and raided a person's business there recently. Ares Armor.

Even the governmental leaders are ignoring the orders of governmental leaders within CA.

I believe Bhoffman's point stands. Even if you own a business in CA, why in the world would any sane person want to stay there?
 
I was born and raised in California, and this is not the California I grew up in. For those who don't know, there are essentially 2 California's, the liberal urban sprawls of LA/SF with the greatest concentration of liberal voters, and rural California with ranchers/farmers and so on. Harpdude was simply pointing out that for those of you who live in the other 49 states is that you have a number of brother and sister gun owners and Constitutional proponents in California that think and live just as you do. While it seems to make some on these forums feel superior to lump California gun owners in with California government and politicians, the fact remains that condescension and ridicule is a tool of the left. Why would you use it on a fellow gun owner?
 
I believe the point being made toward continuing to live in Kalifornia only perpetuates the liberals hold on politics.
~
As a resident they are going to be paying taxes of kinds that are in support of an urban sprawl that is against gun ownership in general.
~
As a resident who owns a business they are paying even more dubious taxes in support of a political system that would like nothing better than to make felons out of them and seize everything they own because of their owning guns and supporting the 2nd Amendment.
~
So I repeat, Why would anyone who supports the Constitution want to live where they are considered out casts for owning firearms, mentally ill for owning too many firearms (when there is no law against own a lot of guns), even possibly future felons because they want to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights, if they continue to support the very government who want to put them away.
~
This to me just doesn't make a any of sense, but hey I am a gun owner and in Kalifornia I could be mentally ill, don't ya know.
 
I believe the point being made toward continuing to live in Kalifornia only perpetuates the liberals hold on politics.

So, for all conservatives to flee California would some how lesson the liberals hold on politics???

~
As a resident they are going to be paying taxes of kinds that are in support of an urban sprawl that is against gun ownership in general.

I assume you pay your Federal taxes which support Obama and his lackey Eric Holder and their anti gun policies, this is different in what way??

~
As a resident who owns a business they are paying even more dubious taxes in support of a political system that would like nothing better than to make felons out of them and seize everything they own because of their owning guns and supporting the 2nd Amendment.

See above

~
So I repeat, Why would anyone who supports the Constitution want to live where they are considered out casts for owning firearms, mentally ill for owning too many firearms (when there is no law against own a lot of guns), even possibly future felons because they want to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights, if they continue to support the very government who want to put them away.

So if you had a farm, ranch, or business that had been in your family for generations, you'd simply sell, vacate, and scuttle off to another state claiming patriotism for running away??

~
This to me just doesn't make a any of sense, but hey I am a gun owner and in Kalifornia I could be mentally ill, don't ya know.

You have no disagreement from me on the political and legal idiocy in California, but I see no basis for criticism of those of us who have a vested interest in living here and chose to remain and fight for that interest and family history. If everyone moves and flees the liberal onslaught, eventually there will be nowhere to move and flee to.
 
I will respond to this as soon as I see the mental health background check of all the officers involved, the judge and president of U.S. Otherwise I will consider any attempt to take any weapon theft.
 
In mu Humble opinion, ANYONE living in California is considered mentally unstable!

I live here in California and am quite stable.I also have plenty of friends here and everyone of them is stable. We all own firearms....... We all are here for each other. Some of us have businesses here. What kind of comment was that BHoffman? Hmmm!

I commend you for owning firearms in a state that would love to see yours be confiscated and destroyed and have you placed in chains. Do the words Feinstein or Pelosi mean much to you?

I believe he was referencing why in the world would one still want to live in CA after the governmental leaders have continuously usurped the citizen's rights? Shoot, the ATF just recently ignored a court order and raided a person's business there recently. Ares Armor.

Even the governmental leaders are ignoring the orders of governmental leaders within CA.

I believe Bhoffman's point stands. Even if you own a business in CA, why in the world would any sane person want to stay there?
These people are "double minded"...(James 1:8).. "A double minded man is unstable in all his ways".
I was born and raised in Commiefornia, all of our children and grandchildren live in Commiefornia, I owned a beautiful home and multiple businesses (4) all debt free in Commiefornia when I chose to chuck it all, move to Arizona and enjoy the freedom there that Commiefornia robbed me of. NO EXCUSES. To those "double minded" who see no basis for criticism of those who have a vested interest in living in Commiefornia and chose to remain my comment is clear...

Link Removed
 
I was born and raised in California, and this is not the California I grew up in. For those who don't know, there are essentially 2 California's, the liberal urban sprawls of LA/SF with the greatest concentration of liberal voters, and rural California with ranchers/farmers and so on. Harpdude was simply pointing out that for those of you who live in the other 49 states is that you have a number of brother and sister gun owners and Constitutional proponents in California that think and live just as you do. While it seems to make some on these forums feel superior to lump California gun owners in with California government and politicians, the fact remains that condescension and ridicule is a tool of the left. Why would you use it on a fellow gun owner?

I do not feel superior to you because you have horrible legislators ripping your rights away from you. I feel sad. I feel angry. I feel sickened.

What I don't understand, is if I feel this way all the way in PA for those in CA.... why don't I see more Californians leave this state that treats them like subjects?

The way I see it, there are two choices, stay and fight like hell to win your rights back or leave on the quickest train out of there. The problems with fighting are evidenced most recently by the owner of Ares Armor who had his business raided by the ATF even though a court order forbade the ATF from doing so. ????? This is shear madness.

I hope for the sake of all Californians since you are staying there you are in the former category.
 
State Rights trumps Federal Rights. Ahhh, yeah, in the COTUS, 10th Amendment. WTFO, does a federal agency have the right to intrude upon a commercially run LEGAL business?
 
I live here in California and am quite stable.I also have plenty of friends here and everyone of them is stable. We all own firearms....... We all are here for each other. Some of us have businesses here. What kind of comment was that BHoffman? Hmmm!

I was born and raised in California, and this is not the California I grew up in. For those who don't know, there are essentially 2 California's, the liberal urban sprawls of LA/SF with the greatest concentration of liberal voters, and rural California with ranchers/farmers and so on. Harpdude was simply pointing out that for those of you who live in the other 49 states is that you have a number of brother and sister gun owners and Constitutional proponents in California that think and live just as you do. While it seems to make some on these forums feel superior to lump California gun owners in with California government and politicians, the fact remains that condescension and ridicule is a tool of the left. Why would you use it on a fellow gun owner?

Really guys? You couldn't tell it was a joke? You don't understand that in order to be funny, a joke has to have a kernel of truth to it? Geez, add to the high number of reasons why we left CA in May, '92, just shy of a month after the Rodney King riots ended, that political correctness has so-taken hold there that two Californians have gotten all butt-hurt over a freakin' joke that definitely does have at least a "kernel" of truth to it. Good grief.

I believe the point being made toward continuing to live in Kalifornia only perpetuates the liberals hold on politics.
~
As a resident they are going to be paying taxes of kinds that are in support of an urban sprawl that is against gun ownership in general.
~
As a resident who owns a business they are paying even more dubious taxes in support of a political system that would like nothing better than to make felons out of them and seize everything they own because of their owning guns and supporting the 2nd Amendment.
~
So I repeat, Why would anyone who supports the Constitution want to live where they are considered out casts for owning firearms, mentally ill for owning too many firearms (when there is no law against own a lot of guns), even possibly future felons because they want to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights, if they continue to support the very government who want to put them away.
~
This to me just doesn't make a any of sense, but hey I am a gun owner and in Kalifornia I could be mentally ill, don't ya know.

BINGO!!!! Either fight and kill the beast, or starve it. Just sitting there contributing to feeding it doesn't accomplish a damned thing for constitutional liberty, it only makes the beast bigger and stronger.

These people are "double minded"...(James 1:8).. "A double minded man is unstable in all his ways".
I was born and raised in Commiefornia, all of our children and grandchildren live in Commiefornia, I owned a beautiful home and multiple businesses (4) all debt free in Commiefornia when I chose to chuck it all, move to Arizona and enjoy the freedom there that Commiefornia robbed me of. NO EXCUSES. To those "double minded" who see no basis for criticism of those who have a vested interest in living in Commiefornia and chose to remain my comment is clear...

Link Removed

DOUBLE-BINGO!!!! My last surviving aunt and two of her sons still live there too, and I've got a couple other cousins in NoCal also. My whole family was ate up with socialist/leftist ideals. One cousin dared to think about buying a gun when he moved back (from Aspen, CO a couple of years before the current spate of tyranny) to take care of his mom, and called to ask me for advice on what kind of gun to buy. He's 65 years old and ain't gonna be taking any physically-demanding training (if that's even legal in CA anymore), and has literally never fired a weapon in his entire life before, so I told him if he wanted to go through the hassle of getting a small revolver or pistol to keep in his nightstand and shoot maybe once a year until he lost interest if he wanted to, go ahead. I also told him I couldn't advise him on what weapon to buy because everything I would recommend holds more rounds than he would be allowed to own, and even he, a guy who once told me he voted for Obama because he "just thought it was time for a black man to be President," was incredulous that 11 rounds loaded in your weapon at home could put you in jail, while 10 rounds would be perfectly legal. I doubt he'll ever buy a gun.

Anyway, we risked everything once we got here. My mom had passed away a few months before we left and we had a small inheritance to put into building a business, so that's what we did. Alabama ain't perfect in the freedom-department, but it's moving in a more-perfect direction rather than the never-ending march towards complete and total despotism that CA and several other states are on a path to reaching.

Either fight and kill the beast, or starve the beast. Anything else is living as a slave to the beast.

Blues
 
Ringo, your response is a perfect example of my original point. You quote the Bible and follow up with a large icon stating "Bite Me". Obama and the left would be proud, especially of your mixed metaphors.

Wolf, thank you for a thoughtful and measured response. Short of making national news, I know of no way to demonstrate how many pro gun and Constitution Californians are fighting back with financial support of GOA, NRA, and other local pro 2A groups, as well as letters and phone calls to state and federal legislators. I would politely point out to all that Ares Armor was raided by the ATF which is a Federal Agency, not State. Therefore, every person on this forum who has filed and paid Federal Income Tax is in fact a "financial supporter" of both Obama and Eric Holder and their policies. No virgins here, sorry.

Blues, you referenced dogshawred's post but perhaps missed my post of his quote with my responses. I'm not as gifted as you at posting a quote with my responses highlighted, and I regret that as it is more powerful. Nevertheless, I believe my response was none the less valid for not having been highlighted. And as yet, nobody has specifically referenced my responses, other than Ringo's eloquent and deeply considered Bite Me.
 
Blues, you referenced dogshawred's post but perhaps missed my post of his quote with my responses. I'm not as gifted as you at posting a quote with my responses highlighted, and I regret that as it is more powerful. Nevertheless, I believe my response was none the less valid for not having been highlighted. And as yet, nobody has specifically referenced my responses, other than Ringo's eloquent and deeply considered Bite Me.

Well, first, yes I did miss it. There's been a contractor here all day doing some work, and I've had to babysit him while trying to keep this scintillating thread in order. Oops. Let me rectify that right now:

You have no disagreement from me on the political and legal idiocy in California, but I see no basis for criticism of those of us who have a vested interest in living here and chose to remain and fight for that interest and family history. If everyone moves and flees the liberal onslaught, eventually there will be nowhere to move and flee to.

I kind of get this (the bold part) because there was a time where I also believed that "as California goes, so goes the nation." But guess what? Whoever made up that slogan, if they really believed it, was wrong. CA keeps going further and further down the toilet while many states are moving closer to actually recognizing the right to keep and bear arms as a right. Some states have already passed Commerce Clause and 10th Amendment-compliant laws that say the feds have no authority to regulate the manufacture, ownership, or marketing practices of guns or accessories made within their state that stay in their state. My state currently has one such law working its way through the legislature, as do several other states, obviously some being stronger than others, but the point is that while things are improving in the Liberty Department out here in flyover country, CA is killing its citizens (Kelly Thomas, kids carrying toy guns, burning out Dorner instead of capturing, trying and convicting him, Oscar Grant and many more), sending out SWAT teams looking for "prohibited persons," raiding businesses engaging in perfectly legal commerce, passing environmental laws that put the farmers in the former fruit-and-vegetable-basket of the nation out of business, protecting freakin' field-mice and smelt (I mean, freakin' smelt! are you kidding me???) over man's ability to earn a living, and the list goes on and on and on. To the extent that any of that crap happens out here in flyover country, it is exceedingly rare, if not altogether non-existent, at least in this part of it.

So in direct reply to your reply to dogshawred, if people there can't shed the liberal indoctrination that keeps you there in relative complacency, then I suggest you do stay there and fight to your dying day, whatever "fight" means to you, because transplants of any stripe have a hard time fitting in where freedom reigns, and liberal transplants are made to feel downright uncomfortable, intolerably so if we can swing it. I'll say this though; complaining about your rights being trampled to the same oligarchs who trample them with impunity, is not what I consider "fighting." Fighting is defying. Fighting is mutually pledging "...to each other [y]our lives, [y]our fortunes, and [y]our sacred honor" in order that tyrants don't rule you like the slaves I and my wife were, and you were, when we left. I have seen nothing to indicate there's any principled, founding-era type of fight in CA. I'd be thrilled to be proven wrong, but I'll guaran-damn-tee ya that words won't do it, only documented resistance will.

And yes, I use bold and italics to emphasize things, and if it makes my points more powerful, then desired effect obtained. Thanks for noticing.

But the most powerful thing one can find on an internet forum is what I always try to achieve, and that's truth. The truth is, if you starve the beast, you kill the beast without having to sacrifice your safety, security, your ability to earn a living, or your very freedom. You cannot fight the beast at the same time that you're feeding it, unless of course, you figure out a way to poison what you're feeding it. Figure that out, and then you can talk about "fighting."

Blues
 
Blues, nice try on attempting to get me to defend an assertion I never made in the first place, ergo, "as California goes so goes the nation". In regard to argument, you bear a striking resemblance to the community organizer crowd. You transfer stances and positions by those in power to fellow gun owners in the populace you hold in contempt, and then pretend you have a higher ground. If you've been paying Federal taxes then you're complicit in Fast and Furious, Ruby Ridge, Waco, and any other Federal anti gun anti Constitution action or activity. Starve the beast and skip your 2014 Federal taxes. Your higher ground stance is is woefully rife in hypocrisy, and your best point is highlighting SMELT? I live on a 600 acre farm in the California Delta, so by all means lecture me on the challenges faced by California farmers. You're a perfect example of emotion over reason, pride and arrogance over logic.
 
Blues, nice try on attempting to get me to defend an assertion I never made in the first place, ergo, "as California goes so goes the nation". In regard to argument, you bear a striking resemblance to the community organizer crowd. You transfer stances and positions by those in power to fellow gun owners in the populace you hold in contempt, and then pretend you have a higher ground.

Are you serious? Saying that, "eventually there will be nowhere to move and flee to," is really so far off from saying, "as CA goes, so goes the nation" that you have to accuse me of some kind of subterfuge "community organizer" tactic?? Good grief, get a freakin' grip on reality! You appear to be so loyal to your masters that you even refuse to recognize understanding of your plight in CA, and past agreement on a meme that you clearly implied the gist of, even if you didn't repeat the decades-old meme word-for-word. You can't even accept basic agreement based on personal experience unless the person showing it to you doesn't lick the boots of your masters in Sacramento too! You're freakin' insane if you think recounting my thoughts as a young man that CA was pretty much the center of the universe and genesis of every trend or fad or social "norm" across the country until my personal experience proved otherwise was hypocritical in any way, shape, manner or form.

And believe me, I pretend nothing. Every ounce of energy I have, every free minute of every day of every week, month and year I can squeeze out of life, I fight for gaining more liberty for every American that they either lost over time for older folks, or were born with for the younger set. I live by and for the Constitution as a citizen, and do everything I can possibly do to make the governments that serve all of us do the same, and that would include pledging my life, fortunes and sacred honor, two of which I've already given in large measure and whole measure respectively, and will continue until the full measure of the last pledge is realized.

If you've been paying Federal taxes then you're complicit in Fast and Furious, Ruby Ridge, Waco, and any other Federal anti gun anti Constitution action or activity. Starve the beast and skip your 2014 Federal taxes.

My goodness, you're an impudent sort aren't you. You are saying that because the government of the entire country has seen fit to confiscate our earnings before we even have the chance to abide by the law by filing and paying only what we owe in taxes, that I should refrain from getting a refund for the over-payments they confiscated from us, lest I be a hypocrite? How might I go about denying the federal government my tax dollars, genius? I am not a hypocrite because the government whose usurpative laws I oppose every waking second of my life, and even during my nightmares too, takes my ability to withhold my taxes in protest away from me before I ever even see the money, and they take more than I ever owe so that if I want what my wife and I have earned we have to file.

I have to wonder if you even know the first thing about how and why taxes started being taken out of our pay checks, or how and why answering that question would answer, and likely solve, most questions of gun control - or more accurately - people control. I hesitate to do this because you might accuse me of trying to use "community organizer" tactics again (which I have to wonder if you really know what that means either), but perhaps you have it in you to learn some truth since you brought the subject of federal taxes up, something I have studied and been in the thick of the fight against for decades now. For what's wrong with the 16th Amendment, go here. For why passage of the 17th Amendment and creation of the Federal Reserve the same year (1913) is the triumvirate of laws that put the final nail in the Constitution's coffin, go here.

And unless you're willing and able to discuss the truth about federal taxes knowledgeably and credibly, don't ever call me a hypocrite about the subject again, or if you do, you can go here to willingly feed the California beast.

Your higher ground stance is is woefully rife in hypocrisy, and your best point is highlighting SMELT? I live on a 600 acre farm in the California Delta, so by all means lecture me on the challenges faced by California farmers. You're a perfect example of emotion over reason, pride and arrogance over logic.

Good grief, I don't remember the last time I saw a person on this forum get so butt hurt over stuff that wasn't intended as a knock on them personally at all. I wasn't "lecturing" you about smelt or anything else, I was giving you valid reasons for why I consider CA a lost cause, and highlighted the smelt issue only to emphasize my incredulity at how much further gone it has, well, gone. I was "lecturing" the tyrants of your government that has put the Delta into the severe state of economic decline that you now get all butt hurt on behalf of. If that doesn't prove my point that Californians are thoroughly subjugated into servants of the state, I can't imagine what might!

And you are a farmer, or you just live on a farm? Either way, if you're in the San Joaquin Valley working or just living on a farm, and you don't see the value in starving the beast that is busy trying to starve you out, as well as the whole freakin' nation, there's no more help for you than there is for the once-great, and once-free, State of California.
 
Blues, take a deep breath and let your blood pressure drop. No, I don't farm, I'm a retired Critical Care/Trauma Nurse that rents acreage on a farm. I'm very well aware of farming practices in the California Delta as I live it daily, and my grandfather was a successful Central Valley farmer his entire life. Your histrionics only serve to display once again your over emotional response to a rational discussion. You attack as opposed to debate, and are only comfortable in personal ridicule of those who may disagree with you. The OP's post was truly funny, and then followed by the usual cheap shot against all California gun owners and 2A proponents as happens here on a regular basis, and then poorly defended as humor. While the State you may live in may or may not be more 2A friendly, regardless of your terminology, the monies coming from your payroll deduction and your Federal Income Tax Return support in part an anti gun stance and agenda, and you cannot deny complicity any more than the rest of us. Sorry dude, you can claim being in the thick of the fight against Federal taxes, but if you pay them you're no less a whore than the rest of us.
 
Blues, take a deep breath and let your blood pressure drop. No, I don't farm, I'm a retired Critical Care/Trauma Nurse that rents acreage on a farm. I'm very well aware of farming practices in the California Delta as I live it daily, and my grandfather was a successful Central Valley farmer his entire life. Your histrionics only serve to display once again your over emotional response to a rational discussion. You attack as opposed to debate, and are only comfortable in personal ridicule of those who may disagree with you. The OP's post was truly funny, and then followed by the usual cheap shot against all California gun owners and 2A proponents as happens here on a regular basis, and then poorly defended as humor. While the State you may live in may or may not be more 2A friendly, regardless of your terminology, the monies coming from your payroll deduction and your Federal Income Tax Return support in part an anti gun stance and agenda, and you cannot deny complicity any more than the rest of us. Sorry dude, you can claim being in the thick of the fight against Federal taxes, but if you pay them you're no less a whore than the rest of us.


I'm sorry. Now I take umbrage to that. Because if you read the actual 18 posts before yours, you would see my post was not a cheap shot against CA and supported the first "cheap shot" as you so call it.

original post on CA:
You may have heard on the news about a Southern California man who was put under 72-hour psychiatric observation when it was found he owned 100 guns and allegedly had 100,000 rounds of ammunition stored in his home. The house also featured a secret escape tunnel.

By Southern California standards, someone owning 100,000 rounds is considered "mentally unstable." <snip>
funny.. meant as a joke


In mu Humble opinion, ANYONE living in California is considered mentally unstable!
could be taken either way... I took it as also being funny.

I live here in California and am quite stable.I also have plenty of friends here and everyone of them is stable. We all own firearms....... We all are here for each other. Some of us have businesses here. What kind of comment was that BHoffman? Hmmm!
straw man argument..... "I am stable, therefore everyone must be"

I commend you for owning firearms in a state that would love to see yours be confiscated and destroyed and have you placed in chains. Do the words Feinstein or Pelosi mean much to you?

I believe he was referencing why in the world would one still want to live in CA after the governmental leaders have continuously usurped the citizen's rights? Shoot, the ATF just recently ignored a court order and raided a person's business there recently. Ares Armor.

Even the governmental leaders are ignoring the orders of governmental leaders within CA.

I believe Bhoffman's point stands. Even if you own a business in CA, why in the world would any sane person want to stay there?
definitely not a cheap shot against CA

So please enlighten us to where all the "cheap shots" are. This after you commended me on the above post earlier:

<snip>Wolf, thank you for a thoughtful and measured response. <snip>
 

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