Deciding between Ruger LC9s, Ruger SC40 or Beretta PX4 Storm Sub Compact for conceal

[Blueshell]

I thought about that but just never looked into it because of the whole ordering, shipping and transferring thing. Figgered I'd have to get a pretty sweet deal to offset the shipping charge and transfer fees.

Just for conversation I went and located the Ruger LC9 on GunBuyer.com: $330, free 2-day shipping. FFL transfer fees in my area run $25-$35.

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Anyway, practice often, carry always I look forward to your range report.

 

[bofh]

I use www.gunwatcher.com to find guns online. I exclude the usual suspects that have a history of false pricing, false advertising and delayed shipping, such as gunbroker.com and Cheap Guns, Bulk Ammo, Gun Parts & Accessories - Cheaper Than Dirt!. For example, I have used deguns.net in the past: Link Removed.

When ordering online, you just enter your information and the information of your FFL of choice, such as a local gun shop or gun range. Check with them beforehand if they do transfers and what the transfer fee is. Once ordered, the online seller contacts the FFL, typically via e-mail, to fax them their license. Then, the online seller ships the firearm to the FFL. This will take a few days. Once the firearm arrives at the FFL and has been logged, you will be notified via a phone call or by e-mail that the firearm is ready for pickup. Then you just go there and do the ATF 4473 and pay the transfer fee. Done.

You can transfer multiple firearms with one ATF 4473 and transfer fee, by the way.

 

[corneileous]

Just for conversation I went and located the Ruger LC9 on GunBuyer.com: $330, free 2-day shipping. FFL transfer fees in my area run $25-$35.

Link Removed

That's a pretty good deal even considering I bought mine yesterday on sale. I wonder if that site charges tax. If they didn't, I probably coulda saved about 45 bucks if I wanted to wait until next weekend to try it out. Not knocking buying online, just saying that you pay a little extra for convenience....lol.

Anyway, practice often, carry always I look forward to your range report.

Carried it in Applebee's last night and even in Walmart...lol.

Well, as I said, I only put about 65 rounds or so through it, but it was nice. Did a couple rapid, full mag group shots at my targets from about 10, 12 feet and the grouping was good. I figured if that was a bad guy I don't think he woulda been too happy...lol. I woulda snapped a pic of the targets but my two cousins decided to pop a few rounds at it and messed it up...lol.

All in all in real happy with it. Love that trigger. Didn't have a single jam in the ammo I bought. Couldn't really tell the difference in grain weights. The 150 grain federal HST's felt the same as the 115 grain Winchester range ammo.

I just have to get used to the differences between it and my beretta, one major difference is the slide saftey. The beretta, up is fire and down is safe. The Ruger, just the opposite.




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[bofh]

That's a pretty good deal even considering I bought mine yesterday on sale. I wonder if that site charges tax. If they didn't, I probably coulda saved about 45 bucks if I wanted to wait until next weekend to try it out. Not knocking buying online, just saying that you pay a little extra for convenience....lol.

As for taxes, have you ever bought anything online? Then you already know the answer to your question.

Carried it in Applebee's last night and even in Walmart...lol.

Well, as I said, I only put about 65 rounds or so through it, but it was nice. Did a couple rapid, full mag group shots at my targets from about 10, 12 feet and the grouping was good. I figured if that was a bad guy I don't think he woulda been too happy...lol. I woulda snapped a pic of the targets but my two cousins decided to pop a few rounds at it and messed it up...lol.

Just make sure you train how to safely draw and fire it without hitting yourself or innocent people.

All in all in real happy with it. Love that trigger. Didn't have a single jam in the ammo I bought. Couldn't really tell the difference in grain weights. The 150 grain federal HST's felt the same as the 115 grain Winchester range ammo.

No jams! That's the important part. I usually fire several hundred target rounds and about 100 self defense rounds through a gun without cleaning in-between to make sure that it functions reliably. Always clean your gun after target practice.

I just have to get used to the differences between it and my beretta, one major difference is the slide saftey. The beretta, up is fire and down is safe. The Ruger, just the opposite.

That's the problem with inconsistencies in the manual of arms. It can cost you your life. Train with one firearm and sell the other.

 

[corneileous]

As for taxes, have you ever bought anything online? Then you already know the answer to your question.

Not sure I understand the meaning of this question but I've ordered tons of stuff online. That's where the majority of the crap I have came from was online.

That being said, sometimes tax is charged and sometimes it ain't.

Just make sure you train how to safely draw and fire it without hitting yourself or innocent people.

No jams! That's the important part. I usually fire several hundred target rounds and about 100 self defense rounds through a gun without cleaning in-between to make sure that it functions reliably. Always clean your gun after target practice.

Yeppers.

That's the problem with inconsistencies in the manual of arms. It can cost you your life. Train with one firearm and sell the other.

Maybe so but I'm not selling either of my guns. Both serve a purpose. Plus, I love my Beretta and I ain't gettin' rid of it. That's all part of that training and familiarizing you speak of.



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[bofh]

Not sure I understand the meaning of this question but I've ordered tons of stuff online. That's where the majority of the crap I have came from was online.

That being said, sometimes tax is charged and sometimes it ain't.

The same tax laws apply when buying firearms online. If you don't know why you are getting charged a sales tax sometimes, then you should try to educate yourself. Most of the few Web sites that charge sales tax even explain why.

Do You Have to Pay Sales Tax on Internet Purchases?
Internet Sales Tax: A 50-State Guide to State Laws

Maybe so but I'm not selling either of my guns. Both serve a purpose. Plus, I love my Beretta and I ain't gettin' rid of it. That's all part of that training and familiarizing you speak of.

Your choice. I am just telling you what I have learned in training with professional firearm instructors.

I don't use manual safeties on handguns and I am staying consistent with manual safeties on rifles. Why? Because when you draw your weapon in a self defense scenario you don't think: Do I carry the Beretta today or the Ruger? You draw, point, disengage the safety and fire (if needed). Disengaging the safety should come as natural to you as drawing and pointing the firearm. It isn't if you carry different firearms that require an opposite motion to do it.

Once you train hard enough you will realize what I am talking about when you draw your firearm, have not disengaged the safety and try to fire.

 

[corneileous]

The same tax laws apply when buying firearms online. If you don't know why you are getting charged a sales tax sometimes, then you should try to educate yourself. Most of the few Web sites that charge sales tax even explain why.

Do You Have to Pay Sales Tax on Internet Purchases?
Internet Sales Tax: A 50-State Guide to State Laws

Never said anything about not knowing why some online retailers charge tax and why some don't. Don't really care. I was just simply trying to answer your reply the best I could since you made your reply out to sound like I was clueless and that I've never ordered a single thing online.

Your choice. I am just telling you what I have learned in training with professional firearm instructors.

No problem with any of that. There's probably people out there that own 20 handguns and in any given situation could fire each one of them as good or better that someone who owns and carries just one gun. It's all about training, responsibility and dedication to take carrying a gun on you as serious as you can.

I don't use manual safeties on handguns and I am staying consistent with manual safeties on rifles. Why? Because when you draw your weapon in a self defense scenario you don't think: Do I carry the Beretta today or the Ruger? You draw, point, disengage the safety and fire (if needed). Disengaging the safety should come as natural to you as drawing and pointing the firearm. It isn't if you carry different firearms that require an opposite motion to do it.

I apologize for not saying this before but when I said I wasn't going to sell anything and that each pistol serves its own purpose, I didn't mean that I was going to carry one or the other or even both. Now that I have the Ruger, the beretta can probly stay home most of the time when I leave the house except for when I leave for work on the truck. It can ride on my glove box while the Ruger is on me no problem.

And yes, you're right, being consistent is important but as I said, familiarization and training will help.

Once you train hard enough you will realize what I am talking about when you draw your firearm, have not disengaged the safety and try to fire.

I don't doubt what you say at all and I fully realize the danger of remembering to take a saftey off but as I've mentioned, having a gun without a saftey is not something I want. Protecting myself from a negligent discharge with a hard trigger to pull is also not what I want to have to deal with to shoot accurately and have good shot placement.

I've found something that works so that is what's important. If saftey-less guns work for you then great.


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[bofh]

Never said anything about not knowing why some online retailers charge tax and why some don't. Don't really care. I was just simply trying to answer your reply the best I could since you made your reply out to sound like I was clueless and that I've never ordered a single thing online.

Sorry for assuming that.

No problem with any of that. There's probably people out there that own 20 handguns and in any given situation could fire each one of them as good or better that someone who owns and carries just one gun. It's all about training, responsibility and dedication to take carrying a gun on you as serious as you can.

Not really, unless those 20 handguns have similar manual of arms or those people are highly trained, such as special forces. It is easier to train for one type of manual safety and then just ignore it on handguns that do not have a manual safety. It is very difficult to train for complete opposite safety lever operation. Again, it is not about shooting at the range, but handing the firearm under stress when defending your life.

FYI: The Beretta is considered toxic for training and carry in part because of its reverse safety operation to the 1911.

I don't doubt what you say at all and I fully realize the danger of remembering to take a saftey off but as I've mentioned, having a gun without a saftey is not something I want. Protecting myself from a negligent discharge with a hard trigger to pull is also not what I want to have to deal with to shoot accurately and have good shot placement.

I've found something that works so that is what's important. If saftey-less guns work for you then great.

Progress is made step by step. Train, shoot and carry. Your views will develop over time.

 

[corneileous]

Not really, unless those 20 handguns have similar manual of arms or those people are highly trained, such as special forces. It is easier to train for one type of manual safety and then just ignore it on handguns that do not have a manual safety. It is very difficult to train for complete opposite safety lever operation. Again, it is not about shooting at the range, but handing the firearm under stress when defending your life.

I hear ya. I'm well aware of that and think about it a lot.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I really wished that sub compact Storm would have worked out because it's an almost exact replica of how my full size Storm works, saftey decocker and all. Just my luck they'll probly come out with a single stack version after I've already bought the Ruger...lol.

FYI: The Beretta is considered toxic for training and carry in part because of its reverse safety operation to the 1911.

First, which Beretta we talkin' about, the Storm or the 92? Second, I don't see myself in the near future getting a 1911. My cousin has an old Remington 1911 and although it's a great shooting gun for a 45, it's a bear to tear down the slide from the frame...lol.

I take it the 1911 you're talking about in your reply is the more used service pistol that the Beretta? I'm assuming so since the Beretta is considered the "toxic" one and not the 1911.

Progress is made step by step. Train, shoot and carry. Your views will develop over time.

Oh, I'm sure. If I have in the past, I apologize but, I try not to make claims about how I feel now won't change in the future as this goes on and learn more.



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[bofh]

First, which Beretta we talkin' about, the Storm or the 92? Second, I don't see myself in the near future getting a 1911. My cousin has an old Remington 1911 and although it's a great shooting gun for a 45, it's a bear to tear down the slide from the frame...lol.

I take it the 1911 you're talking about in your reply is the more used service pistol that the Beretta? I'm assuming so since the Beretta is considered the "toxic" one and not the 1911.

The Beretta 92 is considered toxic, but the Storm has the same slide-mounted safety (when it has one) so it has the same problem. Many handguns with an external safety mimic the safety lever operation of the 1911, i.e., frame-mounted (and not slide-mounted) and down is hot.

There is a way to convert Berettas to decocker only, which many that carry them do. I know that you want an external safety, so that would't be something for you.

 

[corneileous]

The Beretta 92 is considered toxic, but the Storm has the same slide-mounted safety (when it has one) so it has the same problem.

I didn't know the 92 or the Storm had a no saftey option. The Nano is the only one I know of that doesn't, atleast in the ones I was interested in for my carry gun.

Many handguns with an external safety mimic the safety lever operation of the 1911, i.e., frame-mounted (and not slide-mounted) and down is hot.

Well, that seems to be true now that you mention it. I haven't handled a lot of guns in my quest to find a carry gun but all the ones I've looked at and held, my Ruger, the SC40 and SC9 I checked out, the Smith and Wessons, and even that Taurus Slim 709 and Millennium all had a slide saftey setup that down was fire and up was safe.

There is a way to convert Berettas to decocker only, which many that carry them do. I know that you want an external safety, so that would't be something for you.

How does that work? The saftey lever just gets converted to deccock the hammer but can still be fired whether it's down or up? What would be the point for doing that? And no, I'm not saying as far as disabling the saftey, I'm just talkin about making it a decocker only.



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[bofh]

I didn't know the 92 or the Storm had a no saftey option. The Nano is the only one I know of that doesn't, atleast in the ones I was interested in for my carry gun.

How does that work? The saftey lever just gets converted to deccock the hammer but can still be fired whether it's down or up? What would be the point for doing that? And no, I'm not saying as far as disabling the saftey, I'm just talkin about making it a decocker only.

The decocker-only version allows you to safely decock and holster the firearm after chambering a round or after shooting. The firearm is always carried decocked. A decocker-only lever always pops back up again, so there is only one position it is in when firing.

Px4:

Type F: Single and double-action. Decocker. Manual safety.
Type C: So-called to be Single-action-only ("Constant Action" - hammer is in half-cocked position). Spurless hammer. No decocker. No safety.
Type D: Double-action-only. Spurless hammer. No decocker. No safety.
Type G: Single and double-action. Decocker. No manual safety.

Beretta 92:

F Models: Single and double-action. Decocker. Manual safety.
FS Models: Single and double-action. Decocker. Manual safety.
G Models: Single and double-action. Decocker. No manual safety.
DS Models: Double-action-only. Decocker. Manual safety.
D Models: Double-action-only. No decocker. No safety.

You can convert the decocker/manual-safety switch to a decocker-only switch on those that have it. The following video is by a self-proclaimed Internet gun expert who changes his carry gun more often than his underwear. He is rarely right with his choices and often completely changes his opinions. However, he does know Berettas:

 

[corneileous]

Hmm. Interesting.


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[Blueshell]

...

Do you plan to try a laser?

Also, is the barrel +p rated and would you be open to trying +p ammo in a small gun?

 

[corneileous]

Do you plan to try a laser?

Also, is the barrel +p rated and would you be open to trying +p ammo in a small gun?

Oh yeah, I plan to get a laser. My alien gear holster I ordered had the form fitted kydex for several different brands. The one I got was for the crimson trace laser guard. Wasn't crazy about spending what I did for a laser sight but atleast this one has the push button momentary switch that activates by squeezing the grip and turns off when you let go. The other models that AG covered for attachments didn't. Well, except for I believe it was the laser max, that you had to reach up with your index finger to turn it off but it had a built in timer that turned it off after a certain amount of time of you forgot to turn it off manually.

As far as plus p ammo, the owners manual kinda contradicts yes or no to the use of it. First it says that it would be fine as long as you don't do it all the time, then it said feeding the gun a healthy diet of plus p ammunition would greatly shorten the life of the gun. Then it went on to say that plus p ammo wasn't recommended. Lol.

I dunno, whether whatever the gun was in question was made to handle plus p ammo or not, is it really something to consider using it?


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[corneileous]

I wasn't really considering a laser sight but since this is probably going to be my primary carry pistol and the one I'll have on me, I figured why not since this isn't going to be a plinking or range gun. That, and if it helps to give me an edge, that's great too.

I might also add that it's primarily Alien Gears fault, too since they already have a shell mold for my pistol with a laser on it....[emoji5][emoji5][emoji5]


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[Blueshell]

Oh yeah, I plan to get a laser. My alien gear holster I ordered had the form fitted kydex for several different brands. The one I got was for the crimson trace laser guard. Wasn't crazy about spending what I did for a laser sight but atleast this one has the push button momentary switch that activates by squeezing the grip and turns off when you let go. The other models that AG covered for attachments didn't. Well, except for I believe it was the laser max, that you had to reach up with your index finger to turn it off but it had a built in timer that turned it off after a certain amount of time of you forgot to turn it off manually.

As far as plus p ammo, the owners manual kinda contradicts yes or no to the use of it. First it says that it would be fine as long as you don't do it all the time, then it said feeding the gun a healthy diet of plus p ammunition would greatly shorten the life of the gun. Then it went on to say that plus p ammo wasn't recommended. Lol.

I dunno, whether whatever the gun was in question was made to handle plus p ammo or not, is it really something to consider using it?


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Well, do NOT fire +p ammo unles the barrel itself is stamped "+p". You can always buy one.

 

[Blueshell]

I wasn't really considering a laser sight but since this is probably going to be my primary carry pistol and the one I'll have on me, I figured why not since this isn't going to be a plinking or range gun. That, and if it helps to give me an edge, that's great too.

I might also add that it's primarily Alien Gears fault, too since they already have a shell mold for my pistol with a laser on it....[emoji5][emoji5][emoji5]


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See I put a green laser on my snub because it's for the bedroom. If I'm woken up in the middle of the night I know I can't rely on a textbook stance etc; not while half asleep and suprised. Put the dot on the threat and pull the trigger, that's it.

 

[corneileous]

Well, do NOT fire +p ammo unles the barrel itself is stamped "+p". You can always buy one.

Although I didn't intentionally look, I don't remember seeing the stamp when I took the gun apart to clean it. But again, what difference does +P ammunition make?


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[corneileous]

See I put a green laser on my snub becauseit's for the bedroom. If I'm woken up in the middle of the night I know I can't rely on a textbook stance etc; not while half asleep and suprised. Put the dot on the threat and pull the trigger, that's it.

Yeah, I guess I could put one of those on my Beretta but because I'm limited to a rail mounted sight, I'd have to take it off each time I wanted to holster it. Unless I had a custom holster made. Here lately I've just been keeping it in a zippered pouch more for just protection while riding in the glovebox of the truck.

I dunno, I haven't found a whole lot of sight or sight/flashlight combos for the storm.


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