DA/SA pistol: safety on or off

[Treo]

And Gil Hibben uses Taiwanese and Chinese 440C stainless steel in the overwhelming majority of his mass production runs. His designs are sometimes interesting, but they're usually intended as "art" rather than being useful as a hard-working tool. Using 440C (or any 400 series steel) is indicative of that fact.

We're not talking about mass production runs we're talking about the knives Rambo carried that were made in America by Americans

please find a more reliable source than Wikipedia before correcting me again.

Rambo

 

[BluesStringer]

We're not talking about mass production runs we're talking about the knives Rambo carried that were made in America by Americans

Nope, we're not talking at all. Goodbye.

 

[dad45acp]

Somehow I knew when I read the first post, I would be able to read every post, and everyone would proclaim, safety off.

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Is this a Rambo crowd, or what?

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I own and at times CC a DA/SA decocker, a Beretta Px4 Storm Sub Compact 9mm. I keep a round in the chamber, and the safety ON!

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If all you guys were submarine captains, I bet the nuclear strike keys would be dangling in the control boxes, 24/7.

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People who train with safeties on, are how much slower than those that train with safeties off? The speed of the presentation is almost the same time wise, but it takes longer for the safety off people to get to the firing line to qualify, because they all walk to the firing line with Glock Leg. lol

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For me, safety is first. How can anyone proclaim, safety first, if your own sidearm, has the safety off?

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In firearm safety classes, as a Chief Range Safety Officer, we train students, if you have a safety, place the gun on safety before reholstering your pistol.

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My usual CC pistol is any one of several Glocks, and I never have ammo in my Glocks, without first placing a trigger block safety in them. Easy, and instantaneous to remove should I need my gun.

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Link Removed

Asinine. What is the purpose of having a safety ON when the gun is in YOUR possession and holstered when it has NOTHING to do with the functionality of the weapon (ie. 1911). Which is why I don't carry a 1911. When I'm dealt with a deadly force encounter, I don't want to rely on my thumb to release a safety when my heart rate is approaching 150-200 beats/min and adrenaline is coursing through my body. Chances are my fine motor skills will be shot and all I should focus on is the front sight and squeezing the trigger.

Instead of focusing on the external safety of the weapon, safe handling in general should be taught. Such as clearing the weapon each and every time it gets handled, treat it as its always loaded, etc.

 

[MDT]

Somehow I knew when I read the first post, I would be able to read every post, and everyone would proclaim, safety off.

.

Is this a Rambo crowd, or what?

.

I own and at times CC a DA/SA decocker, a Beretta Px4 Storm Sub Compact 9mm. I keep a round in the chamber, and the safety ON!

.

If all you guys were submarine captains, I bet the nuclear strike keys would be dangling in the control boxes, 24/7.

.

People who train with safeties on, are how much slower than those that train with safeties off? The speed of the presentation is almost the same time wise, but it takes longer for the safety off people to get to the firing line to qualify, because they all walk to the firing line with Glock Leg. lol

.

For me, safety is first. How can anyone proclaim, safety first, if your own sidearm, has the safety off?

.

In firearm safety classes, as a Chief Range Safety Officer, we train students, if you have a safety, place the gun on safety before reholstering your pistol.

.

My usual CC pistol is any one of several Glocks, and I never have ammo in my Glocks, without first placing a trigger block safety in them. Easy, and instantaneous to remove should I need my gun.

.

Link Removed

I, too, am a Chief Range Safety Officer. I'm not sure what that has to do with teaching pistol courses. As a CRSO, I write SOPs for ranges and watch the line, help with malfunctions but don't instruct students. I do instruct students in pistol and defense classes. Your argument about putting on a "safety" is correct for a SA 1911, but for DA guns, not so much. Some will and some will not allow the "safety" to be engaged in DA. This is no different than carrying an Smith and Wesson M&P or a Glock. The only true safety is keeping your finger out of the trigger when holstering and unholstering the firearm. Some of us are so well trained we index our fingers when we pick up spray bottles, drills, etc. Perhaps, continuing education beyond NRA classes would assist in this fear. Thunder Ranch, Gunsight, Archangel Tactical, Mas Ayoob (the MAG80 is supposed to be awesome) all give incredible classes.

 

[CharlesMorrison]

Safety off...


Keep your booger hook off the bang switch til ready to fire..


Sent from behind Enemy Lines.

 

[BluesStringer]

I do have a CZ RAMI! You have good taste in guns. I also have a couple other carry options because, well, a girl sometimes dresses her gun to her clothing. I have been known to carry the 1911 style guns "cocked and locked" and have practiced thumbing the safety during the draw stroke. If you train for it, the safety doesn't slow you down.

Yeah, I think the whole CZ line is generally underrated. Well-made, reliable weapons. We have two RAMIs, one poly (my wife's) and one alloy (mine). I bought two poly versions in the same purchase like six or seven years ago. One had a burr develop on the chamber block that fouled against the ejection port of the slide, and locked itself closed after maybe 50 rounds the first time out. Called CZ, they authorized sending it in for warranty and overnighted an overnight shipping label, they called back the same day they received it to tell me that they didn't want to try to fix it and I could have my choice of any handgun in their line for my troubles. I was tempted to upgrade to a 75 (B, P-01 or P-07), but I had already bought a bunch of leather and mag carriers, as well as extra mags, for the RAMI, so I stuck with it, except went for the alloy model as a replacement, which was an upgrade in and of itself. I had my shiny new alloy RAMI delivered exactly 7 days after my initial call to them. Not only are their weapons well-made, but their customer service is outta this world!

As far as practicing with safety on and being just as fast and proficient with it in that condition, it does apply as more or less the same between the RAMI in cocked and locked mode and a 1911 style weapon, but it doesn't compare so well between the RAMI and my S&W 4563TSW. The lever on the .45 is easy enough to index, but it's direction of travel is opposite from the RAMI's, and the length of travel is ~70° compared to the RAMI's ~10° in the opposite direction, and the RAMI's safety is very thin and not so easy to index.

There's just no need for me to change what has worked well for very close to 40 years for me. More than just training for the mechanics of adding another movement to my draw, I'd have to retrain my long-standing and oft-practiced muscle memory, which at my age, is probably better than my mental memory! LOL

BTW, it wasn't hard to guess what weapon you had. There might be some examples out there somewhere, but I've never heard of another true DA/SA weapon with the same external safety features, and you described the RAMI's very well and was easy to recognize. :biggrin:

Blues

 

[tricolordad]

Omg pass the popcorn!

 

[tricolordad]

Asinine. What is the purpose of having a safety ON when the gun is in YOUR possession and holstered when it has NOTHING to do with the functionality of the weapon (ie. 1911). Which is why I don't carry a 1911. When I'm dealt with a deadly force encounter, I don't want to rely on my thumb to release a safety when my heart rate is approaching 150-200 beats/min and adrenaline is coursing through my body. Chances are my fine motor skills will be shot and all I should focus on is the front sight and squeezing the trigger.

Instead of focusing on the external safety of the weapon, safe handling in general should be taught. Such as clearing the weapon each and every time it gets handled, treat it as its always loaded, etc.

Do as I do and carry a gun without a mechanical safety.

 

[Earl Needham]

<snip>

Keep your booger hook off the bang switch til ready to fire..
<snip>

Wow, I like that. Care if I use it for my sig file?

 

[apvbguy]

If you train for it, the safety doesn't slow you down.

until it does and then you're dead
YMMV

 

[MDT]

Well, anything could cause you to die. I can't tell you how many people can't draw from their carry holsters efficiently, fail to understand the difference between cover and concealment, getting off the "X", drawing and shooting from retention... It ALL comes down to training and practice (not just standing in front of a static target).

 

[Tahoetwin]

If the safety is on while carrying concealed, your not ready. You should have a round in the chamber and safety OFF.
In the scenario given.

 

[Javy]

I have guns since 1995. Always with 1 in the chamber and decoker ON. I am trained/practice, and for me is almost automatic to turn the safety off with my thumb as soon as I pull the gun out of the holster. I think that if you are not good enought to control/handle your thumb, you are not good enought to control your index/trigger finger....which is the most riskiest thing with your safety off.

Again PRACTICE, PRACTICE, MUSCLE MEMORY.

 

[Javy]

Shooting at the range, in class, is not the same as being in a real gunfight. Why would you want to insert an extra step that you may or may not forget to do when you are in a stressful situation like a real gunfight? Also, is there any real difference between a DA semi-auto and a revolver when it comes to safety? Both need to have the trigger pulled to fire and the pull is much harder on DA than it is in SA. This is all the safety I need. If you need more than that, go for it. Chances are good you will never need to pull and use the weapon anyhow since they are like fire extinguishers, there if needed.....but how many fires have you had? Most people, fortunately, will be able to say none. I still have my extinguishers though, just in case. h34r:[/QUO

Using your same "rational" about the stresful situation...Can you imaging your index/trigger finger action on a stress impulse??? Are you going to aim/point to the correct area? or due to the stress are you going to just present the gun and pull the trigger?

 

[localgirl]

Some of us have itty bitty thumbs that can't reach safeties. And all of us should know that you never, ever leave weapons where children can reach them, or ask people with no familiarity to handle them, or point the business end of a firearm at anything you don't intend to destroy. As long as a gun is in one piece, it's never unloaded. The safety is never on.

So, frankly, it doesn't matter how you carry.

Half cock one in the chamber no safety, BTW.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I have guns since 1995. Always with 1 in the chamber and decoker ON. I am trained/practice, and for me is almost automatic to turn the safety off with my thumb as soon as I pull the gun out of the holster. I think that if you are not good enought to control/handle your thumb, you are not good enought to control your index/trigger finger....which is the most riskiest thing with your safety off.

Again PRACTICE, PRACTICE, MUSCLE MEMORY.

Shooting at the range, in class, is not the same as being in a real gunfight. Why would you want to insert an extra step that you may or may not forget to do when you are in a stressful situation like a real gunfight? Also, is there any real difference between a DA semi-auto and a revolver when it comes to safety? Both need to have the trigger pulled to fire and the pull is much harder on DA than it is in SA. This is all the safety I need. If you need more than that, go for it. Chances are good you will never need to pull and use the weapon anyhow since they are like fire extinguishers, there if needed.....but how many fires have you had? Most people, fortunately, will be able to say none. I still have my extinguishers though, just in case. h34r:

Using your same "rational" about the stresful situation...Can you imaging your index/trigger finger action on a stress impulse??? Are you going to aim/point to the correct area? or due to the stress are you going to just present the gun and pull the trigger?

I noticed you failed to answer his questions.

1. Why would you want to insert an extra step that you may or may not forget to do when you are in a stressful situation like a real gunfight? And I would like to add "that has only adds a very minuscule margin of safety when the gun is already in a good fitting retention holster with the trigger guard covered". What's the point of impeding my gun from being used by one additional mechanical device that is 99% not needed in a good holster?

2. Also, is there any real difference between a DA semi-auto and a revolver when it comes to safety? Both need to have the trigger pulled to fire and the pull is much harder on DA than it is in SA.

 

[NavyLCDR]

My usual CC pistol is any one of several Glocks, and I never have ammo in my Glocks, without first placing a trigger block safety in them. Easy, and instantaneous to remove should I need my gun.

Do you do the same with revolvers? And... can you point us to police departments that won't issue or load Glocks without modifying them to add an external safety first?

 

[jfisch]

When I carried by Bersa Thunder 380 (which is a DA/SA) I had one in the chamber safety off (de-cocker is a better term for it). Now I've switched to an Ruger SR40c. It's a striker fire with a really short trigger pull and I've had fears of it firing when I put it into the holster and something got in the way of the trigger. I guess I need to realize that once I get it in the holster the trigger is safe so why have the safety on? I'll carry it safety off from now on as most posters are right that there's no need to add an extra step. Keep the trigger clear until you're ready to use it and you won't need a safety. You are the safety.

 

[Sir Diealotz]

Safety off when carrying. Same as most of you guys.

 

[Kennydale]

I carry my Ruger SR40C in a 3 Speed Holster. I baby sit my 9 month grandson, who jumps all over my lap, and had kicked the safety into HOT. I am still new at this. Around the house, it's safety on...When I am out, it will be safety off. I need to get a Blue gun to practice draw with more.

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