CPl holder open caryying in pistol free zones

[Bikenut]

.

You are right. Does anyone think because a BG don't have a license that he won't carry a gun into a casino,bank,bar etc.etc. to commit a crime? I don't realy think he is gonna follow the law lol. If anything a BG would be less likely to try and rob someone coming out of a casino or bank if he's not sure who has guns and who don't.

Thank you for providing a very good reason to OC since with OC the gun in plain sight leaves absolutely no doubt in the bad guys' mind who would be a poor choice to rob.

Now... to continue so as not to derail the discussion...

Originally posted by Jason1221

Funny that's 1 thing I've always said. If they know u have it-it's only because u needed it. And then your alive to deal with any consequences. I like the idea of sb-59. But can't figure out why another 9hr class is required. I think it's just a $$$ thing so they can charge us all for another license.

The Michigan legislators who support the bill wanted the extra training in order to make the bill more acceptable to those who would oppose it. They could point to the extra training requirement and say those who pass the training are more "qualified" and therefore more "acceptable" to carry a concealed gun in the PFZs. Think of it as a spoonful of sugar to make the bill pass.

What is ironic is that presently those who already have a CPL currently can legally open carry in the PFZs that SB 59 addresses for concealed carry.

 

[X1911]

One thing is very plain to see the open/concealed laws are very confusing to a lot of people, even the suposedly intelligent ones, as I have said before several times, legal or not if you use your weapon in a self defence situation, 9 times out of 10, right or wrong, its going to cost you a legal fortune, so whatever zone you may be in, open/concealed approved or not, keep your gun concealed, KEEP QUIET ABOUT IT, AT ALL TIMES, and keep yourself protected, do any of you honestly think a BG is going to give a crap if its a gun free zone or not?........at least you will still be alive........and if it was a rightous shoot, there should be minimal reprocusions

What? Seems to me most self defense shootings in Michigan lead to no charges filed against the carrier and how would carrying the gun concealed or openly make a difference if you shoot the bad guy? And I understand you concept of always carry even if you're in a PFZ but please keep it to yourself and not post it online for liberal antigun people to see.

 

[Rocketgeezer]

What? Seems to me most self defense shootings in Michigan lead to no charges filed against the carrier and how would carrying the gun concealed or openly make a difference if you shoot the bad guy? And I understand you concept of always carry even if you're in a PFZ but please keep it to yourself and not post it online for liberal antigun people to see.

You are most likely correct, what I ment was if you are carrying in a "gun free zone" and some anti see's it and your not useing it, they make a MWAG call and your in for a hassel, so if your not sure if you can carry in some place, keep it well concealed.....and of course you would not get online and runoff about it

 

[X1911]

You are most likely correct, what I ment was if you are carrying in a "gun free zone" and some anti see's it and your not useing it, they make a MWAG call and your in for a hassel, so if your not sure if you can carry in some place, keep it well concealed.....and of course you would not get online and runoff about it

If you open carry you should be ready to deal with a "hassle" and we're finding that law enforcement is well educated as well as the public because we have so many people OCing across the state. The MWAG calls are very minimum now because we have so many OCing across the state getting the word out.

 

[Bikenut]

You are most likely correct, what I ment was if you are carrying in a "gun free zone" and some anti see's it and your not useing it, they make a MWAG call and your in for a hassel, so if your not sure if you can carry in some place, keep it well concealed.....and of course you would not get online and runoff about it

It is the responsibility of the individual carrying the gun to KNOW! whether or not it is legal to conceal a pistol in/on the places they go. And it is the responsibility of the individual carrying the gun to obey the law.

Oh... and "criminal" is the word that aptly describes someone who breaks the law by sneaking their concealed gun into places where guns are illegal.

 

[Fiddlindoc]

Hello. I'm a newbie on the site. I've evolved a question as a concealed carry permit holder. Technically, when I leave the house carrying my piece, can I not be considered by the law to be "looking for trouble," and therefore be possibly charged with pre-meditated murder if I should happen to use the gun in my defense?

 

[X1911]

Hello. I'm a newbie on the site. I've evolved a question as a concealed carry permit holder. Technically, when I leave the house carrying my piece, can I not be considered by the law to be "looking for trouble," and therefore be possibly charged with pre-meditated murder if I should happen to use the gun in my defense?

Different states have different laws but unless you actually instigate the confrontation or are an aggressor you should be covered in most situations when it comes to having to defend yourself. I don't see someone being charged with "premeditated murder" unless they actually plan to murder someone. I'd be like a police officer being shot at and killing the BG. He was prepared for the situation but he didn't leave that morning intending to go kill someone. I met a guy at a shooting range who said if you shoot at human/silhouette targets and you end up shooting someone in SD, even if justified, you'll be charged with premeditated murder because you planned on kill them. Guy was a complete idiot. Said unless you have a CPL in Michigan you cannot take a pistol to a shooting range so he pretty much accused me of committing a felony. Also said to OC in Michigan you must have a hunting license or have a membership at a shooting club.

 

[Rocket8686]

I know this is old, but this is becoming an issue with new gun carriers I see asking me about the new law.

I read a lot of these posts and a lot contradict themselves.

Are we forgetting Private trumps state law. If a private store,restaurant is posted NO weapons permitted you can not carry open or concealed on that property.

I open carry everywhere, if i don't see it posted PFZ I carry. If its posted I just dont carry for the fact of private over State when it comes to carrying. Most Hospitals are Private owned in Michigan, Thus they dont have to post, and if they ask you to leave since your carrying you must do so.

The New law is contradicting, and shouldn't be taken as face value, as most police officers DON'T know the new law. State troopers do know it, and you can call them and they WILL dumb down the law for you on phone. DOnt assume you can carry anywhere, be smart about when to CC vs OP

 

[Icemanii]

How about we look at applicable laws to help make some sense here. The first law we will look at is 750.234d which does not in anyway apply to those who have a CPL. If you do not have a CPL you may not have in your possession any firearm. Many even go as far to say you cannot have it in your car if you're the parking lot. Also note "h" even applies to stores like Meijer who sell alcohol.



Next we look at the law which prohibits weapons from being in a "weapon free school zone". This is not to be confused with the federal gun free school zone act which does not apply to those in Michigan who legally own pistols. Note there are other exemptions than what I am posting but for our discussion this is all we need. Note this specific law does not apply to those who have a CPL.


We now look at 28.425o which deals with places where someone who is licensed to carry a pistol by the state of Michigan cannot carry a CONCEALED pistol.



Unless you are in a "special class" and meet an exemption under this law you cannot carry a concealed pistol in any of these places. Parking lots are not included under 28.425o and section "2" only applies to the privately owned casinos in Detroit. If you do OC in one of them you are in violation of a "rule". If there are any legal ramifications I don't know. So basically if you have a CPL you cannot carry a concealed pistol in any place listed under 28.425o. You can however open carry in any of those places legally. Note that carry in a court, openly or concealed, with or without a CPL, is generally illegal as most courts prohibit them and if you do you can be charged with contempt.

My second job is an instructor at a local community college. The sticky point for us is that as the law is written, you can carry in the parking lot, but not a classroom, correct? However, my class is held in the parking lot, gives you college credits and according to the college, is my classroom. So gets even murkier to figure out.

 

[Rocket8686]

Here is a updated list of all private stores here in Michigan that DO NOT allow Carry whether OC orCC. If you know of more in Michigan please submit it and STAY away from them .

Dont give them your business if they are going to take away your right.

Link Removed

 

[alduane]

My second job is an instructor at a local community college. The sticky point for us is that as the law is written, you can carry in the parking lot, but not a classroom, correct? However, my class is held in the parking lot, gives you college credits and according to the college, is my classroom. So gets even murkier to figure out.

Not really murky in my opinion. The law states this:

(a) A school or school property except that a parent or legal guardian of a student of the school is not precluded from carrying a concealed pistol while in a vehicle on school property, if he or she is dropping the student off at the school or picking up the child from the school. As used in this section, "school" and "school property" mean those terms as defined in section 237a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.237a.

According to this, you have to be a parent or legal guardian of a student and be in your vehicle while picking up or dropping off that student. That only applies to concealed, I don't believe that there are any restrictions against open carry at schools, however you would be in violation of the Federal Gun Free School Zone Act if you didn't have a CPL from Michigan.

 

[alduane]

I know this is old, but this is becoming an issue with new gun carriers I see asking me about the new law.

Are we forgetting Private trumps state law. If a private store,restaurant is posted NO weapons permitted you can not carry open or concealed on that property.

I wouldn't say that it trumps State law. If they ask you to leave and you don't you can be charged with tresspassing but not for carrying in a Pistol Free Zone

 

[Etkini]

Excuse me for not reading through the thread, but I doubt this was posted before:

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/MSP_Legal_Update_No._86_2_336854_7.pdf

It's the Michigan laws in pretty plain English. I've kept them saved in my bookmarks for about a year, even though I have never carried in Michigan. I like to keep them as a reminder of how a state should act after having multiple grievances filed following wrongful arrests and harassment of OCers.

 

[Bikenut]

Excuse me for not reading through the thread, but I doubt this was posted before:

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/MSP_Legal_Update_No._86_2_336854_7.pdf

It's the Michigan laws in pretty plain English. I've kept them saved in my bookmarks for about a year, even though I have never carried in Michigan. I like to keep them as a reminder of how a state should act after having multiple grievances filed following wrongful arrests and harassment of OCers.

Thanks for posting that..

The only thing I'd like to add is that Michigan State Police legal update that explained the actual laws in Michigan to various police depts. Statewide was accomplished by what many in the gun community (and on this forum in various threads) are still complaining are "in your face" "confrontational" "impolite" open carriers who give argumentative cops a hard time and are giving gun rights "a bad name" presenting a "poor image" to the public that will cause "ordinary citizens to vote for more gun control".

 

[Rocket8686]

I wouldn't say that it trumps State law. If they ask you to leave and you don't you can be charged with tresspassing but not for carrying in a Pistol Free Zone

In State of Michigan Private Trumps State law. Meaning If you own property, and you want NO one carrying on your property including LEO they must leave. THey have the right on what they will allow on their property.
I refuse to go into business that tell me I can not open carry or conceal carry, in a Shall Issue State. Which is why I spread the word about stores and take away the right.