Concealed Carry without a permit?

Okay last post on this thread. I've never heard of "Combat Handguns" considered the Mainstream Media. When I, and probably about everyone else, hear the phrase "Mainstream Media," we think ABCNBCCBSCNNMSNBC.

I'm obviously not going to persuade you otherwise, but I hope you have about $50,000 saved up, because that is the average cost of a decent defense attorney.

I see, according to you, if it is written in a gun magazine, it is the absolute truth and can never be hype or the least bit wrong.... Thank you so much for pointing that out...




BTW, I wont ever need a defense attorney..... Thanks for the concern though...
 
I'm going with what Massad Ayoob has written about frequently in Combat Handguns. He's cited cases in multiple states where people have been convicted of manslaughter because they didn't have a license. I guess Ohio might be different, but holding up a copy of the Bill of Rights to the average Joe on a jury probably isn't going to persuade him.

As I said in a prior post, making a blanket statement can make a person a fool. I personally do not know this Massad Ayoob and if what you're saying about him spouting generalized statements that do not apply to all is true, then I would have to conclude that he is a fool. Alternatively, you may be mistaking and mis-quoting what his statements and intentions in making his statements were/have been. So until I can read and digest his statements, I do not know for sure which is the fool.
 
Do you know the ACTUAL reason(s) this person has decided to do so?

I didnt think so...

So, you just go around calling people idiots because they dont do things the way you do..... Nice...
That's correct. To knowingly violate a law, especially one concerning a concealed firearm, is stupid. We're not talking about jaywalking here.
 
That's correct. To knowingly violate a law, especially one concerning a concealed firearm, is stupid. We're not talking about jaywalking here.

Even when that "law" is a 100% violation of the Constitution? It is our DUTY to disobey UnConstitutional "laws"... So, according to YOU, anyone who is doing their civic "Duty" to uphold/support the Constitution is stupid... got it, glad you made yourself clear on that.


"An unconstitutional act is not law; it confers no rights; it imposes no duties; affords no protection; it creates no office; it is in legal contemplation, as inoperative as though it had never been passed." --Norton v. Shelby County, 118 US 425

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[SIZE=+1]16 Am Jur 2d, Sec 177 late 2d, Sec 256:[/SIZE]
The general misconception is that any statute passed by legislators bearing the appearance of law constitutes the law of the land. The U.S. Constitution is the supreme law of the land, and any statute, to be valid, must be In agreement. It is impossible for both the Constitution and a law violating it to be valid; one must prevail. This is succinctly stated as follows:
The General rule is that an unconstitutional statute, though having the form and name of law is in reality no law, but is wholly void, and ineffective for any purpose; since unconstitutionality dates from the time of it's enactment and not merely from the date of the decision so branding it. An unconstitutional law, in legal contemplation, is as inoperative as if it had never been passed. Such a statute leaves the question that it purports to settle just as it would be had the statute not been enacted.
Since an unconstitutional law is void, the general principles follow that it imposes no duties, confers no rights, creates no office, bestows no power or authority on anyone, affords no protection, and justifies no acts performed under it.....
A void act cannot be legally consistent with a valid one. An unconstitutional law cannot operate to supersede any existing valid law. Indeed, insofar as a statute runs counter to the fundamental law of the lend, it is superseded thereby.
No one Is bound to obey an unconstitutional law and no courts are bound to enforce it.

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"Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God." --Thomas Jefferson
American citizens and law officers don't need an attorney or a Supreme Court Justice to tell them what all this means. We can read it with our own eyes, and the meaning is crystal clear. Law officers have a duty to disobey orders that infringe our right to keep and bear arms, and citizens have a right and a patriotic duty to resist if they dishonor it.
The issue, in a sense, is absurd. Why should we have to convince law enforcement officers that their primary duty, their Supreme Order if you will, is to protect the Supreme Law of the Land, which supercedes lesser laws and orders? Why should we have to tell them that whenever there's an apparent conflict, the benefit of the doubt should always go to the Constitution? Enforcing unconstitutional gun laws is wrong and illegal. Of all people, it should be obvious to law enforcement officers that they should not break the law. They should be on our side on this issue, leading the charge to encourage other cops to leave these gun laws unenforced. Instead, we're told that law enforcement officers should stand the rank of our laws on its head, ignoring our most important law when lesser laws conflict with it.
So who's the extremist; the citizen who says it's an officer's duty to ignore orders that violate the right to self-defense, the sine qua non of the right to life itself? Or the cop who willingly follows orders he knows or should know are illegal, disarms decent citizens, and even kills those who resist?

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A state may not impose a charge for the enjoyment of a right granted by the federal constitution... The power to impose a license tax on the exercise of these freedoms is indeed as potent as the power of censorship which this Court has repeatedly struck down... a person cannot be compelled 'to purchase, through a license fee or a license tax, the privilege freely granted by the constitution.' —MURDOCK V. PENNSYLVANIA 319 US 105 (1942)

 
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Which part of that says you can concealed carry a weapon w/o a permit when the state has deemed it necessary? Which part says you can concealed carry period? It says you have the right to keep and bear arms. The ability to own a weapon is not being infringed, neither is the ability to provide security while in the state militia.
 
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Which part of that says you can concealed carry a weapon w/o a permit when the state has deemed it necessary? Which part says you can concealed carry period? It says you have the right to keep and bear arms. The ability to own a weapon is not being infringed, neither is the ability to provide security while in the state militia.
If you cant figure it out, I cant help you...... But I will try anyway...
Where does it say I (or you) am REQUIRED to carry it openly? Answer that one truthfully and you will find your answer to everything else on the subject...

Bonus hint: What part of "shall NOT be infringed" allows for "deemed necessary"?
Another bonus: "owning" is NOT "bearing"
I could go on all day......
 
If you cant figure it out, I cant help you...... But I will try anyway...
Where does it say I (or you) am REQUIRED to carry it openly? Answer that one truthfully and you will find your answer to everything else on the subject...

Bonus hint: What part of "shall NOT be infringed" allows for "deemed necessary"?
Another bonus: "owning" is NOT "bearing"
I could go on all day......

it doesnt say you can openly carry it around either. it was drafted as a way for the people to defend their state. last i heard, none of the states are at war. it says you can own a weapon and defend your state as part of the militia. states are left to create laws for themselves as to personal carry (currently)...ie state to state open carry laws and concealed carry laws.

bonus: what part of that says self defense? it says to be part of a maintained militia to defend the free state...

i know bearing isnt owning...but keep would be, right?

so you think that since the forefathers were vague in their writing of that part, you can do anything it doesnt explicitly say you cant?
 
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
Which part of that says you can concealed carry a weapon w/o a permit when the state has deemed it necessary? Which part says you can concealed carry period? It says you have the right to keep and bear arms. The ability to own a weapon is not being infringed, neither is the ability to provide security while in the state militia.

On the flip of that. Show me where it says that you can not bear arms how you wish? It does not, it simply say's that your right to bear arms (carry) shall not be infringed.
Any act or law requiring you to obtain "permission to carry" is a "limitation" or "infringement" on that right.

That is why it would be best for the residents of ALL states to push for Constitutional Carry within their own state. Look at Wyoming, a Constitutional Carry State, no laws against Open Carry no laws against Concealed Carry by their Citizens. The only law restricting carry in any way is directed at Non-Residents of Wyoming.
 
it doesnt say you can openly carry it around either. it was drafted as a way for the people to defend their state. last i heard, none of the states are at war. it says you can own a weapon and defend your state as part of the militia. states are left to create laws for themselves as to personal carry (currently)...ie state to state open carry laws and concealed carry laws.

bonus: what part of that says self defense? it says to be part of a maintained militia to defend the free state...

i know bearing isnt owning...but keep would be, right?

so you think that since the forefathers were vague in their writing of that part, you can do anything it doesnt explicitly say you cant?





Twisting the very simple and easy to understand wording of "The RIGHT of the PEOPLE to KEEP AND BEAR arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" into some false logic that allows infringement is utter lunacy..... It CANNOT be done without twisting and re-defining words to mean their exact opposite and ignoring half of the other ones...

You have shown beyond a shadow of a doubt that you have no basis in fact or reality in your arguments...

You have "drank the koolaid" and are beyond redemption...

Go ahead and start licking the boots of your "betters" now, and maybe they will save killing you till last.... Just remember though, Real Patriots will remember who the enablers and turncoats are...
 
Twisting the very simple and easy to understand wording of "The RIGHT of the PEOPLE to KEEP AND BEAR arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" into some false logic that allows infringement is utter lunacy..... It CANNOT be done without twisting and re-defining words to mean their exact opposite and ignoring half of the other ones...

You have shown beyond a shadow of a doubt that you have no basis in fact or reality in your arguments...

You have "drank the koolaid" and are beyond redemption...

Go ahead and start licking the boots of your "betters" now, and maybe they will save killing you till last.... Just remember though, Real Patriots will remember who the enablers and turncoats are...

On the flip of that. Show me where it says that you can not bear arms how you wish? It does not, it simply say's that your right to bear arms (carry) shall not be infringed.
Any act or law requiring you to obtain "permission to carry" is a "limitation" or "infringement" on that right.

That is why it would be best for the residents of ALL states to push for Constitutional Carry within their own state. Look at Wyoming, a Constitutional Carry State, no laws against Open Carry no laws against Concealed Carry by their Citizens. The only law restricting carry in any way is directed at Non-Residents of Wyoming.

it's that little part at the beginning you seem to keep reading past.....

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

it's saying you have the right to keep and bear arms as a part of the state militia AND being necessary to the security of a free state.

i'm prior active duty and current guardsman, so i dont think i've drank the koolaid, nor will i be licking the boots of anyone else. keep your assumptions to reading laws apparently.
 
bonus: what part of that says self defense? it says to be part of a maintained militia to defend the free state...

I guess you aren't familiar with the ruling of the SCOTUS in the Heller v. District of Columbia (2008):

"The Supreme Court held:[43]
(1) The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia,...

The core holding in D.C. v. Heller is that the Second Amendment is an individual right intimately tied to the natural right
of self-defense."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller
 
I guess you aren't familiar with the ruling of the SCOTUS in the Heller v. District of Columbia (2008):

"The Supreme Court held:[43]
(1) The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia,...

The core holding in D.C. v. Heller is that the Second Amendment is an individual right intimately tied to the natural right
of self-defense."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller

well apaprently the ammendment needs to be ammended.
 
well apaprently the ammendment needs to be ammended.

I would agree that a new Amendment to amend the 2A might be needed, but only if it were to state to the effect of.. It is the right of all Law-Abiding American citizens to Keep and Bear Arms in a manner consistent with their needs anywhere within the United States of America and shall not be infringed, abridged, denied or disparaged.

Once ratified by the requisite number of States, it would preclude any state from establishing any law preventing Open or Concealed Carry as the American Citizen feels fits his/her needs.
 
I would agree that a new Amendment to amend the 2A might be needed, but only if it were to state to the effect of.. It is the right of all Law-Abiding American citizens to Keep and Bear Arms in a manner consistent with their needs anywhere within the United States of America and shall not be infringed, abridged, denied or disparaged.


It already says exactly that.... It is those like you who do not know how to read or comprehend the meanings of words that dont understand it....
 
It already says exactly that.... It is those like you who do not know how to read or comprehend the meanings of words that dont understand it....

there should be no guesswork in a law. are there lots of them like that, yes. if the SCOTUS had to make the ruling posted earlier and the case made it that far, then it must not be that spelled out.
 
Jhodge are you saying the 2nd half of the 2A doesn't matter? "The right of the people" part? If they wanted the 2A to pertain to just the militia, wouldn't it say, "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the militia to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed"?

I gotta agree with everyone that says you are wrong.

We have a right to a militia, to create/organize/sustain a militia. That shall not be infringed.
This militia is necessary to the security of a free state. That shall not be infringed.
We the people, have the right to keep and bear arms (weapons of any kind). That shall not be infringed.

It doesn't matter which part of the 2A you pick apart, it all can not be infringed. A permit, is an infringement.
 
Jhodge are you saying the 2nd half of the 2A doesn't matter? "The right of the people" part? If they wanted the 2A to pertain to just the militia, wouldn't it say, "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the militia to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed"?

I gotta agree with everyone that says you are wrong.

We have a right to a militia, to create/organize/sustain a militia. That shall not be infringed.
This militia is necessary to the security of a free state. That shall not be infringed.
We the people, have the right to keep and bear arms (weapons of any kind). That shall not be infringed.

It doesn't matter which part of the 2A you pick apart, it all can not be infringed. A permit, is an infringement.

i'm not saying the second part does not matter, but the statement has to be taken in its entirety. it's not a separate statement for militia and people. the way it reads to me is that the people have a right to keep and bear arms for the militia to defend a free state.
 
i'm not saying the second part does not matter, but the statement has to be taken in its entirety. it's not a separate statement for militia and people. the way it reads to me is that the people have a right to keep and bear arms for the militia to defend a free state.

Ok, now that I see your viewpoint, I have a free questions:

What state do you live in?
Who is the militia?
What do you consider a free state?
 

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