Conceal carry and aggressive dogs.

[mistergus75]

Would love to know what part of Houston you live in. We live in Spring, just north of Houston.

Anyway, our Governor Rick Perry (while jogging), shot a coyote that was threatening his dog.

Texas Gov. Rick Perry Shot Coyote on Morning Jog, Saving Family Dog

The point is that he used his .380 to protect his dog, not himself, and it was perfectly legal.

If the attacking animal happens to be another dog, I don't see what difference that would make. I'm going to protect my dog.

 

[Ernesto Mejia]

In NC the law of deadly force states that if your life or the life of a third party is in jeopardy of death or serious bodily injury your justified in using deadly force (15a-401-d2). If you believe that imminent force is going o be used against you than you are justified as well and it does not specifically state that the treat has to be human.....

 

[CathyInBlue]

If worse comes to worst, you can always say that your fear was not for the life of your dog (legally property), but that the attacking animal was going to attack you, either imminently or after it was done savaging your own pooch. A human being in what for all intents and purposes is legitimate fear for their own life gets huge amounts of deference in most jurisdictions. This is true even if in fact your emotions were flat and you just didn't like the fact that the aggressor animal was injuring or killing your pet with no actual fear, for yourself or otherwise. Just never change the story that you were in fear of your own life.

 

[Treo]

If worse comes to worst, you can always say that your fear was not for the life of your dog (legally property), but that the attacking animal was going to attack you, either imminently or after it was done savaging your own pooch. A human being in what for all intents and purposes is legitimate fear for their own life gets huge amounts of deference in most jurisdictions. This is true even if in fact your emotions were flat and you just didn't like the fact that the aggressor animal was injuring or killing your pet with no actual fear, for yourself or otherwise. Just never change the story that you were in fear of your own life.

Yeah, no.

Lying to the police is bad Ju Ju period

ETA
This is a weird topic to me, I consider my self to be above the national average in fitness (which ain't saying much) but I am still a middle aged man and I have yet to meet a dog that I would need a gun to defend myself against.

In such a situation I would always recommend a non lethal option if at all possible, if for no other reason than to keep from killing my dog by mistake.

Put a boot in the dog’s ass and call it a day

 

[tcox4freedom]

I'm not a lawyer. But, I think in most states "pets" fall under the heading of "personal" property. So, I would check to see it it's ok to use "lethal" force in protecting property.

 

[spirit4earth]

In this case, wouldn't Animal Control put the dog down anyway?

Not for a dog picking a fight with another dog. It would have to be an exceptionally vicious attack, or the dog would have to have a history of aggression.

 

[The_Outlaw]

I consider my self to be above the national average in fitness (which ain't saying much) but I am still a middle aged man and I have yet to meet a dog that I would need a gun to defend myself against.
In such a situation I would always recommend a non lethal option if at all possible, if for no other reason than to keep from killing my dog by mistake.
Put a boot in the dog’s ass and call it a day

Ummmmm....Nope, sorry.
I don't give a damn how 'fit' you are...You are still no match for a situation like this if you are unarmed.

Case in point....

Link Removed

 

[BC1]

I'm not a lawyer. But, I think in most states "pets" fall under the heading of "personal" property. So, I would check to see it it's ok to use "lethal" force in protecting property.

And some (not all) states differentiate between personal property and real property. I think if you register the dog to vote it may change things... :laugh:

 

[Treo]

Ummmmm....Nope, sorry.
I don't give a damn how 'fit' you are...You are still no match for a situation like this if you are unarmed.

Case in point....

Link Removed

For your convience

This is a weird topic to me, I consider my self to be above the national average in fitness (which ain't saying much) but I am still a middle aged man and I have yet to meet a dog that I would need a gun to defend myself against.

Ok first, go back and read what I actually wrote, I didn't say unarmed I said I didn't need a gun. Second, I have owned pit bulls and and again I have never met a dog I would need a gun to defend myself from

From your link

CHICAGO - A 62-year-old Chicago man was critically injured Monday morning when two 70-pound pit bull terriers mauled him while he was jogging along Lake Michigan, police said.

Also please note I specified and emphasized A dog. Two dogs (which are not one dog) present a slightly different problem . Although I'd still be fairly confident in my ability to handle it w/out a gun (which is not the same as unarmed)

 

[The_Outlaw]

I specified and emphasized A dog. Two dogs (which are not one dog) present a slightly different problem . Although I'd still be fairly confident in my ability to handle it w/out a gun (which is not the same as unarmed)

Treo; "This is a weird topic to me, I consider my self to be above the national average in fitness (which ain't saying much) but I am still a middle aged man and I have yet to meet a dog that I would need a gun to defend myself against.
In such a situation I would always recommend a non lethal option if at all possible, if for no other reason than to keep from killing my dog by mistake. Put a boot in the dog’s ass and call it a day" -Treo-


I have to strongly disagree with you on your claims Treo...Nothing personal.
You have claimed that you would not have to shoot a dog because you would 'put your boot in the dogs a$$' if I remember correctly.
I highly doubt that even you would be able to do that to an aggressive dog like the one in this video clip.

 

[Treo]

Treo; "This is a weird topic to me, I consider my self to be above the national average in fitness (which ain't saying much) but I am still a middle aged man and I have yet to meet a dog that I would need a gun to defend myself against.
In such a situation I would always recommend a non lethal option if at all possible, if for no other reason than to keep from killing my dog by mistake. Put a boot in the dog’s ass and call it a day" -Treo-


I have to strongly disagree with you on your claims Treo...Nothing personal.
You have claimed that you would not have to shoot a dog because you would 'put your boot in the dogs a$$' if I remember correctly.
I highly doubt that even you would be able to do that to an aggressive dog like the one in this video clip.

I'm meaner that that animal control offficer. :biggrin:

In all seriousness she wasn't fighting back, she was trying to retreat. which, is IMO the worst thing you can do in a fight. Edit: Please note she had a club in her hand and dropped it as soon as the dog came out of the house. What do you think might have happened if she had stood her ground and tried shoving that pole down the dog's throat? /edit

In my original post I advocated pepper spray not bare hands, having said that though I have absolutely no doubt that I could break a dogs jaw w/ one kick

 

[Dennis1209]

Pepper spray....

From a legal, defensive and safety point of view, this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[localgirl]

Treo; "This is a weird topic to me, I consider my self to be above the national average in fitness (which ain't saying much) but I am still a middle aged man and I have yet to meet a dog that I would need a gun to defend myself against.
In such a situation I would always recommend a non lethal option if at all possible, if for no other reason than to keep from killing my dog by mistake. Put a boot in the dog’s ass and call it a day" -Treo-


I have to strongly disagree with you on your claims Treo...Nothing personal.
You have claimed that you would not have to shoot a dog because you would 'put your boot in the dogs a$$' if I remember correctly.
I highly doubt that even you would be able to do that to an aggressive dog like the one in this video clip.

That's a completely different situation. That dog was acting on command, and believed he was protecting his owner. That's the main reason fatal dog attacks occur.

In nature, dogs scrap a little to prove dominance. You will almost never hear of wolves or even domestic dogs attacking and subsequently killing humans or even other dogs when they are alone. They are either trying to protect the pack, or their owner, who they see as the either the leader or member of the pack.

Pit bulls especially were originally bred to show this tendency, which is why they are fought in rings in the immediate vicinity of their owners. The especially disgusting thing about dog fighting is that the people who do it think their dogs are tough, but their dogs are just so devoted, they're trying to save the lives of their owners at the cost of their own. This woman has obviously capitalized on the dog's natural tendencies to the point where it's dangerous.

In nearly every case--obviously not this one--where you might encounter a rogue animal, standing up to it is very effective. Dogs especially are always testing their boundaries and trying to find their place in the pack order.

At any rate, shouting NO at an attacking dog and taking an aggressive stance is certainly preferable to turning and running, because he will catch you, and he will bite you.

 

[pytaz]

If it was an officer, he would have shot the attacking dog. Would that be any different than a citizen shooting the dog?

 

[crowsnake]

I read that in Texas you are allowed to protect your property from thief's AWA your neighbors property. If your dog is your property & said dog was trying 2 steal its life then that should cover it. But in a state where u are only allowed 2 protect yourself or another human not property u might have a problem.

But would I have shot 2 protect my 10 lb MinPins YES. A bigger dog that could hold his own? Maybe not. Kick yes.

 

[Treo]

Off Topic But I Have To Ask

What was that fat beast thinking? Did she think the animal control and the cops would back down once her dog bit one of them ?

I pray to God that part of her sentence was a court order prohibiting from ever owning another dog.

 

[decotriumph]

I live in TN but we asked our Animal Control officer "what-if" regarding this very situation as we have a neighbor with a German Shepherd that they let run loose occasionally, even though we have a leash law. Our AC officer said he couldn't tell us to shoot the dog but that we have every right to defend ourselves from an attack and that if we shot the dog in defense, he would not prosecute.

 

[Blondie]

Thanks for all the great insight everyone!
In all reality, this particular situation did not warrant me to have to use deadly force, but I'm only curious if it happens again in a different situation. To solve the problem, I kicked the attacking dog and puffed my chest out to show my own aggression. Along with some loud yelling and forward lunging, I was able to keep the German Sheppard at bay long enough to get Animal Control involved.
I will take all of this into consideration and discuss the issue with my friend who works for HPD.

Thanks!

 

[gun papa]

I am an Animal Control officer, investigator, in California. I have investigated hundreds of dog attacks in my more than a decade of service. In my jurisdiction, once your dog is off of your property, it must be leashed. This is a county where CCW permits are just beginning to be issued. In my opinion if you are following the law and are attacked, if you feel that the use of a firearm is justified while you or your dog is being attacked by a loose dog, I would not request charges. I have seen horrific injuries caused to both people and pets in this very scenario. Within the last 6 months we had a man life flighted after a horrific dog attack.

I have fought off many aggressive dogs, singly and in pairs, mostly with an ASP. It is a scary proposition with multiple dogs and more than once it could have been life threatening if not for my cool head, skill with a baton, and knowledge of dog behavior. I can tell you from experience, puffing your chest, yelling, and acting the alpha, at times does nothing. Some dogs are not phased by this and will attack you regardless.

I usually give a whistle when entering a property. This usually will get some response by an animal and will buy me some time if attacked as the distance is increased, as opposed to getting near the front door and getting ambushed or trapped. I carry a long 15 inch metal police clip board. I use the clipboard as a shield and the ASP to strike. Often the clipboard is used to block the dog's view of an oncoming ASP blow. Dogs can kill.

I usually have no back up. If I am attacked, so I do what is necessary to get the job done with me in one piece., I step into the attack and towards the animal and engage. This is not an activity an attacking dog is used to seeing. Most people move away from an attacking dog, I move in. This may momentarily confuse the dog and make the dog reassess their actions and estimations of you. I would never do this if I could not really back it up with defensive action. With two dogs it is usually the alpha who portrays as LESS aggressive at first. The second inferior dog acts HIGHLY aggressive to draw your attention, while the alpha pivots outside of your peripheral vision at your 4 or 8'oclock. The alpha attacks from your flank. Once on the ground you are in trouble. I have had many "crap your pants, jump in and swim moments". Most dogs present body language that is easy to read. Some, like Chow Chows do not.

 

[localgirl]

I am an Animal Control officer, investigator, in California. I have investigated hundreds of dog attacks in my more than a decade of service. In my jurisdiction, once your dog is off of your property, it must be leashed. This is a county where CCW permits are just beginning to be issued. In my opinion if you are following the law and are attacked, if you feel that the use of a firearm is justified while you or your dog is being attacked by a loose dog, I would not request charges. I have seen horrific injuries caused to both people and pets in this very scenario. Within the last 6 months we had a man life flighted after a horrific dog attack.

I have fought off many aggressive dogs, singly and in pairs, mostly with an ASP. It is a scary proposition with multiple dogs and more than once it could have been life threatening if not for my cool head, skill with a baton, and knowledge of dog behavior. I can tell you from experience, puffing your chest, yelling, and acting the alpha, at times does nothing. Some dogs are not phased by this and will attack you regardless.

I usually give a whistle when entering a property. This usually will get some response by an animal and will buy me some time if attacked as the distance is increased, as opposed to getting near the front door and getting ambushed or trapped. I carry a long 15 inch metal police clip board. I use the clipboard as a shield and the ASP to strike. Often the clipboard is used to block the dog's view of an oncoming ASP blow. Dogs can kill.

I usually have no back up. If I am attacked, so I do what is necessary to get the job done with me in one piece., I step into the attack and towards the animal and engage. This is not an activity an attacking dog is used to seeing. Most people move away from an attacking dog, I move in. This may momentarily confuse the dog and make the dog reassess their actions and estimations of you. I would never do this if I could not really back it up with defensive action. With two dogs it is usually the alpha who portrays as LESS aggressive at first. The second inferior dog acts HIGHLY aggressive to draw your attention, while the alpha pivots outside of your peripheral vision at your 4 or 8'oclock. The alpha attacks from your flank. Once on the ground you are in trouble. I have had many "crap your pants, jump in and swim moments". Most dogs present body language that is easy to read. Some, like Chow Chows do not.

Why on earth would carry an asp and a clipboard if you are regularly attacked by dogs? Wouldn't some pepper spray or a tazer be a wise investment? Or, you know, a firearm, since you are an officer of the law?