Christians: This is why the atheists here don't believe you
- Thread starter Eidolon
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XD40scinNC
New member
That's a stretch. Being raised by parents that happened to be atheist only means that I did not have religion crammed down my throat starting before potty training was started.
What a wonderful thing to teach a child a prayer by rote about "if I die before I wake........" before a child has any concept of death.
To give them a children's story book about the greatest act of genocide (according to fable) ever, all with cute pictures.
And when I misbehaved I was not threatened with the idle threats of 'god is watching and you are going to burn in hell if you don't behave', which in my opinion is nothing but bad parenting.
I was not exposed to atheist views, nor theist views, but was taught real values of honesty, character and responsibility, that I am my own person, and responsible for myself, and not to go begging some "imaginary friend" for help on the Algebra test, but to study and pass it based on by own knowledge, as no one else but me was responsible.
My daughter was raised the same way, today a very successful woman with two great sons. She dabbled in several religions, and today has pretty much washed her hands of it all and merely refers to religion as pure bull ****.
BC1
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And if their environment teaches them that all forms of religion are fairy tales they will lean toward that belief unless altered by another as free will becomes part of their understanding of the world.
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Thus Newton's first law of motion... "Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it. " Physical sciences apply as the brain functions based upon principals of quantum mechanics. Brain function at the sub-particle level includes the physics of electricity, thermal dynamics and entropy. The programming instilled in a young child builds both physical and virtual functional neuro-pathways that then govern the natural to the function of the brain. The child begins to think exactly as programmed until the age where he becomes cognizant of free-will, which can then slowly change the neuro-pathways. Part of drug and alcohol rehabilitation involves retraining the brain pathways to disassociate certain thoughts and experiences with the addiction.
Indeed. That has no bearing, though, on the fact that it's silly to view atheism, as a whole, to be brainwashing. But, thanks for sharing!
OK. Again, that really has nothing to do with what I said, but thanks! I'm simply pointing out that to classify the lack of a belief as "brainwashing" doesn't make much sense.
BC1
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XD, you said in a prior post your were raised by atheists. Now I'm not saying that was bad or that your upbringing was bad or that you had bad parenting. I'm saying that you neuro-pathways are defined by what you experience. This science is so settled as to no longer be in question. For example if dad was a Klan member it was more likely his kids would follow than if raised by another. A child born to a family of drugs and violence will likely follow the examples of his family into trouble as the streets may provide the programming. A child born to educated successful parents will more likely choose that path. It's not B.S. It's well-established psychology and sociology. In fact there's no one even arguing this. Pavlov taught his dog to associate a bell with food. He then rang the bell and the dog salivated. Parents condition their kids through their own acts and belief system, often not intentionally desiring any particular outcome. Thus "monkey see, monkey do." Someone says religion and the average atheist ignores it. The atheist conditioned by his parents to believe theists should be attacked is more likely to become rabid. Exactly the same with theists. Some have it hammered into them. Some theists have no animosity toward atheists. Some theists are rabid Bible-thumpers. In addition to the behavioral conditioning is the physiological setting. Some people are more predisposed to problematic behavior than others. In those types the gut value programming sits on an unstable mental platform.
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Sadly, you have example after example of a distorted view of religion. I don't pray to pass an algebra test, I pray for the strength to do the things I must do to be a good provider. Only the ignorant think God is involved in the outcome today's ballgame or every little thing in their day.
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I went to services on Sunday and heard a pastor talk about love and peace. His sermon was to love your neighbor even if he doesn't love you. He spoke of compassion and urged not to hate. He spoke of forgiveness and non-violence. There were no threats of God punishing anyone. Now what is objectionable about A MAN, a human being, talking about love, peace and forgiveness?
BC1
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This thread is not centered around you. The tactic is evident. Keep driving people right into your trap. It may not make much sense to someone without a strong background in psychology and sociology. Read Dr. Morris Massey on the subject.
BC1
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You need to gain an understanding of gut value programming. It isn't brainwashing. it isn't atheism that teaches independent thinking. It's merely emulating the acts of the parental environment. The fact that someone uses the term brainwashing shows they haven't studied it. Were you brainwashed to follow the rules of a decent society? No. Odds are that you learned it from exposure to decency by your formulative environment.
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As I read this thread I see pro-atheism posts that attempt to call religion brainwashing and atheism as natural. Clearly zero understanding of the sociological and psychological principals in play and accepted as settled by the shrink community. If one doesn't have a firm grasp of this they shouldn't make generalized statements about the topic of gut value programming until they fully understand the application in ALL humans' development. If you were raised to believe a man's hand should be cut-off for stealing it would seem very normal. Abused women who were raised in abusive homes often do not leave abusive husbands as it's somewhat normal to them. The subject even applies to dogs who often have a personality programmed by the environment. A dog raised with love and play and children will usually (assuming no wacky brain) be a good family member. A dog raised in a violent home often cowers anytime someone gets loud.
BC1
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Then I think we're saying the exact same thing. Non of it is brainwashing. It is a natural thing that an environment programs the value system. And atheist parents who raise atheist kids aren't doing anything wrong. It's simply the science of the thing.
XD40scinNC
New member
You exist in a state of denial of the ugly side of religion you will find if you move into the buy bull belt. And yet you will also probably find churches/preachers similar to the one you describe, especially if you move near one of the liberal enclaves filled with transplants. The reality; not all churches are like your church.
And for every one of those you will find as many that overflow with hatred every Sunday. Preaching the hatred of those that are different and the fear of a wrathful god.
When SSM was a ballot issue several years ago, these preachers couldn't wait to get in front of a news crew camera to spew their hatred, with probably 50 - 60 of them on the steps of city hall expressing their hatred.
As a firefighter, I attended the funeral of a firefighter killed in the line of duty in a nearby department. His preacher, a knuckle dragging spittle, spraying pentecostal preacher spent 30 minutes telling everyone, but especially the baptists (he singled them out specifically), that they were going straight to hell if they didn't follow his personal views, and not once did he mention the man in the flag draped coffin immediately in front of him, a man that died helping his fellow man. I remained seated and silent only because I was there, in uniform, as a member of my department, otherwise I would have walked out.
BC1
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So the actions of one Bible-thumping Baptist mean all religion is bad? Personally I don't like a number of Baptists for two reasons. First, the Westborough Baptist Church. 2nd, the guy who murdered our little one is a rabid Baptist who is embraced by the local parish. Despite his numerous crimes against several children, including assault, murder and molestation they have him working with kids. He regularly would yell religious epithets at me whenever he incidentally came near me... until I couldn't take it anymore. After spending a bit of time in the hospital for the beating he got now he doesn't say $h!t. He hides from me for good reason. But do I blame all religious types for this? No. Do I blame all Baptists? No. That would be ignorant. I blame one crazy bastard for being cray. I blame a society who releases him to do it a third time.
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I don't dislike you. I enjoy your posts very much. I don't hold you in any ill-regard because of your beliefs. I too have friends that are atheist. One's choices in life are their own and it's not my place to judge them. My mom passed-away in early December and I was shocked to see the atheist couple in church at her funeral. Later I asked them what made them come to the church. They replied "respect for you and your mom." Those are good people. They didn't care about the religious difference. They put it aside, went past their personal views and showed enormous respect, just as you did for your friend.
BC1
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In a few years? You're quite ignorant. I hate to make a judgment but I'm guessing not well educated. This was settled in the 1970's. Had you ever taken a sociology class you would have been taught in depth on the matter. It's not a matter of science, it's sociology you hump. And it has nothing to do with right-wingers. And I'm not a right-winger. Please, please, please study before you rant.
Jarhead6541
New member
A pretty good idea about what? Exactly what is the "stuff you learned in college"? You have no conclusive answers to anything.
"Even today, different branches of psychology often take a one versus the other approach. Biological psychology, for example, tends to stress the importance of genetics and biological influences, while behaviorism focuses on the impact that the environment has on behavior".
Let's see it, showoff.
Jarhead6541
New member
BC1 "This science is so settled as to no longer be in question."
Complete BS. You have a lot of free time to copy out of your "pre-selected" psychology books, but the fact is, nothing is anywhere near settled on this subject. You're just full of yourself.
"Throughout the history of psychology, however, this debate has continued to stir up controversy."
"Even today, different branches of psychology often take a one versus the other approach. Biological psychology, for example, tends to stress the importance of genetics and biological influences, while behaviorism focuses on the impact that the environment has on behavior."
"Increasingly, people are beginning to realize that asking how much a particular trait is influenced by heredity or environment is not the right approach. The reality is that there is not simple way to disentangle the multitude of influences that exist, including genetic factors that interact with one another, environmental factors that interact such as social experiences and overall culture, as well as how both hereditary and environmental influences intermingle."
Nature vs Nurture: Do Genes Or Environment Matter More?
For every theory you present, another can be shown to contradict it.
Settled my a$$.
Complete BS. You have a lot of free time to copy out of your "pre-selected" psychology books, but the fact is, nothing is anywhere near settled on this subject. You're just full of yourself.
"Throughout the history of psychology, however, this debate has continued to stir up controversy."
"Even today, different branches of psychology often take a one versus the other approach. Biological psychology, for example, tends to stress the importance of genetics and biological influences, while behaviorism focuses on the impact that the environment has on behavior."
"Increasingly, people are beginning to realize that asking how much a particular trait is influenced by heredity or environment is not the right approach. The reality is that there is not simple way to disentangle the multitude of influences that exist, including genetic factors that interact with one another, environmental factors that interact such as social experiences and overall culture, as well as how both hereditary and environmental influences intermingle."
Nature vs Nurture: Do Genes Or Environment Matter More?
For every theory you present, another can be shown to contradict it.
Settled my a$$.
BC1
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I repeatedly gave the sources, citations and links. Go back and find them. While you were in the military some of us posters were getting great educations at top-notch colleges. Columbia University isn't teaching bu!!*****. And referencing my niece's textbooks, gut value programming is the generally accepted method by which kids' value systems are programmed from their formulative years through adolescence. It's called by many names. The liberals use it to defend nearly every crazy statement anymore. Liam Neeson says violent movies make kids violent. And every time another kid shoots-up a school the liberals blame violent video games. And they're correct. Violent movies and video games contribute to gut value programming in that they desensitize kids. That part of the issue has long been agreed and settled.
BC1
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Education is a wonderful thing. Try getting one. Yer dead wrong.
XD40scinNC
New member
Do the actions or messages of some churches like yours mean that all religion is good?
Nor is it only baptists, some make even the baptists look moderate, including pentecostal's, CoG'ers, and any evangelical, fundamental or apostolic church. These fundamentalists denominations are the clear majority throughout the buy bull belt. The threat this poses, a majority of these congregations will vote at they are instructed from the pulpit, because it aligns with their extremest and hateful views derived from 'their' interpretation of their bible.
Any yes, I attended funerals, solely to show support for the living I care about, who are grieving. Funerals after all are for the living, the dead could care less.
And I put religious differences aside in virtually all of my personal relationships with others. Had a couple of beers and talked guns and shooting with a preacher who is quite fundie (full immersion baptisms in the river, parking lot preaching, etc.) at one of the local breweries the other day. I know him because he is friends with my daughter as they went to high school together.
XD40scinNC
New member
Seems it inflates one's ego a great deal.
You do go on a lot about your wonderful college education, and "stuff" you learned, what 40 -45 years ago. Gee I didn't realize the things have remained static and that is all 100% relevant today. But then you also give a lot of credence to "stuff" that was written down 2000+ years ago, so at least you are consistent.
BC1
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Yes, it's a wonderful feeling. It's not just an education but the college one attends. Thus I didn't live my life around gun rights. I look on my home-office wall and see an enormous accomplishment. To graduate from two of the top colleges in America is an achievement to be extremely proud of.
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And then people come along who're offended by it. They often don't have the education or the chops to argue. They get mad. They wants citations. They don't accept the educated person because it conflicts with their own image. They exhibit fits of jealously or anger or whatever the driving force. They act exactly like a liberal who attacks rather than argue the issue with some educational basis. But I've found that my entire life. People hate you for your accomplishments. Thus the boss is always the butt of the joke, even though he owns the company and puts food on the table for those who ridicule. And when someone who has a good education discusses what they learned that obstructs the logical thoughts of someone who feels threatened by it. So, they respond with an insult. However it makes them feel is irrelevant. It's still factual. It's still part of the academic syllabus. I graduated in 1980 and 1994, not that long ago. I don't reference citations regarding subjects I studied in college. I reference my education. If that pisses you off I'm sorry, but it doesn't change anything. I see with you a pattern of offensive statements, insults and some name calling when other's don't agree with your religious views. THAT problem lies within you, not the person to whom you're insulting. What happens when you insult a co-worker? Pink slip.
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Some things remain static. Not every concept in every subject matter changes. These same concepts are taught today in the same classes. World history, history of governments and religious history doesn't change. Anyone who might have a child in college can find these teachings in their psych or soc textbooks... if they care to look. If they don't then no one can help them as they're bound by their own shortcomings. Me? I'm neither bound or insulted by any of it. I only need look up at the wall in my office. And there lies absolution. PROOF of accomplishments. When one feels anger toward another for their accomplishments they need to look inward for the reason. It often lies within their own self-image.
