CHL Class Instructor attitude

[jethrodull]

So I'm in the CHL class in Tx and had prepared ahead of time by reading up on the CHL laws that I could find, wanting to be prepared. The instructor, who is a LEO, starts talking about the laws. Specifically, he talks about the notify law, where you have to hand your CHL along with DL when ask for ID. He says, "whenever you are asked for DL, give your CHL". I say, "isn't that only if you are carrying?" He says, "What, are you Perry Mason?". I felt like saying, but didn't, "what, are you teaching your opinion, or the law?"

How come he found it necessary to belittle someone in the class? Isn't it his job to teach the law and not his opinion?
J

 

[BulletTrainingLtd]

Your (innocent) question probably "challenged" him based on how it was asked or stated. To save face he quipped back. Your question may have been answered in his next sentence but we will never know due to having a one sided story. Way too little info.

 

[Chris Reitsma]

I am A TX CHL instructor and I tell my students that the law says to notify only if you are carrying but out of respect I would tell them your a CHL holder even if you are not carrying because it will come up when he runs your drivers license. Now the funny thing is that even if you are carrying and you fail to tell him or show your CHL he can't do a damn thing because there is NO PENALTY for failing to notify.

 

[rudiepop]

He should teach both. If he is an LEO he should teach you what the law says and teach you from his own experience. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that it is smart to inform LEO's of the concealed permit before they run a check on you and find out for themselves. It doesn't matter if you are carrying or not. If you have the permit, it doesn't make sense to NOT carry. That is how LEO's see it from my experience. He had no call to be a butthole. But the buttholes are the ones that will make an issue out of it if not informed.

 

[KCD1974]

I wouldn't take a class taught by a LEO...problem solved....lol

 

[Glock Fan]

Being that he's a LEO, I'd strongly take his "opinion" under consideration. Many states don't "require" notification, however doing so will usually save you a lot of trouble and grief. I've had numerous LEO encounters while carrying, and have NEVER gotten into any more trouble by presenting my CC permit/license along with my driver's license.

It is important to have an open mind while attending any firearms related classes. Doing so will result in you being able to learn a lot more than you might otherwise expect. Having been an instructor for many years, I still learn whenever I take a class or help others teach a class.

 

[SGB]

Just imagine what his attitude is when he's on the street in Uniform.

 

[Knourek]

I think anyone wanting a CCW will need to have thicker skin. I don't see the offence in the instructors question, in fact you may want to see it as a compliment.

You made a good point when asking, and a follow up to his remark from you may have proved useful in showing his meaning of the ''are you a lawyer'' comment.

BK.

 

[Rich_S]

So I'm in the CHL class in Tx and had prepared ahead of time by reading up on the CHL laws that I could find, wanting to be prepared. The instructor, who is a LEO, starts talking about the laws. Specifically, he talks about the notify law, where you have to hand your CHL along with DL when ask for ID. He says, "whenever you are asked for DL, give your CHL". I say, "isn't that only if you are carrying?" He says, "What, are you Perry Mason?". I felt like saying, but didn't, "what, are you teaching your opinion, or the law?"

How come he found it necessary to belittle someone in the class? Isn't it his job to teach the law and not his opinion?
J

When we have large classes we have two instructors in the room. I hate working with the instructors who are LEO's. They often do teach their opinion and sometimes it's incorrect with regard to what the law actually is. I just got out of class earlier today where a student had a question on open carrying. Open carry is not illegal here but it's certainly not a good idea either. The LEO told him it's illegal. It turned out the student is involved in historical re-enactments, was going for his license so he can carry handguns during shows, and now he's all freaked out about open carrying in costume. It puts me in a bad position because I don't want to call the guy out in front of the class but I don't want the student getting bad info either. I pulled him aside at break and told him it would be fine to OC during shows. LEO's who teach civilians are the worst. They think they know it all and more often than not they need to be corrected.....

 

[Glock Fan]

When we have large classes we have two instructors in the room. I hate working with the instructors who are LEO's. They often do teach their opinion and sometimes it's incorrect with regard to what the law actually is. I just got out of class earlier today where a student had a question on open carrying. Open carry is not illegal here but it's certainly not a good idea either. The LEO told him it's illegal. It turned out the student is involved in historical re-enactments, was going for his license so he can carry handguns during shows, and now he's all freaked out about open carrying in costume. It puts me in a bad position because I don't want to call the guy out in front of the class but I don't want the student getting bad info either. I pulled him aside at break and told him it would be fine to OC during shows. LEO's who teach civilians are the worst. They think they know it all and more often than not they need to be corrected.....

This is why it is very important to have a discussion with your co-instructors BEFORE the class. I make it a point to meet with all of my instructors before we teach together so I can get to know them and get a feel for what they're going to teach and how they're going to teach it.

I have several LEO instructors that teach with me. NEVER had a problem with any of them. Sure we've had some minor disagreements that we worked out during breaks, however never to a point where I wanted to or needed to set them straight during a class.

 

[FN1910]

A long story but I took the CWP class twice. The first time was from a LEO and the second time from a "civilian". The LEO was much more relaxed and laid back about what to do and what not to than the other instructor. The second instructor is a great instructor and does it as a profession teaching all kinds of gun classes. The LEO is the training instructor for the city and county law enforcement people. I have talked with him many times since then and asked him one day about reciprocity. His answer was "They need to make the #$%@ thing universal". He gave me a lot of tips on what to do if stopped and how to handle it so the gripes I read from posters about LEO's is not universal as there are a lot of good ones out there.

 

[Rich_S]

This is why it is very important to have a discussion with your co-instructors BEFORE the class. I make it a point to meet with all of my instructors before we teach together so I can get to know them and get a feel for what they're going to teach and how they're going to teach it.

I have several LEO instructors that teach with me. NEVER had a problem with any of them. Sure we've had some minor disagreements that we worked out during breaks, however never to a point where I wanted to or needed to set them straight during a class.

I've been working with these guys for ages. Unfortunately you can't tell them a thing because they've already forgotten more than anyone else will ever know in their estimation.....

 

[StoneFence]

We have to remember that there are all kinds of people (LEOs and civilian). Gross generalizations are not productive. I have trained with a LEO that was probably on of the best instructors I've ever encountered. Another, had really rough edges, but had some really good points. Also, my first class I taught was a train wreck. Fortunately, I was working with an experienced instructor who managed to bail me out. We all get better with experience.

 

[Knourek]

Stonefence hit it true. ""LEO or civilian"" these are people, and people vary in personalities and telents.
I am not defending the LEO instructors because many have a mind set that does not lend well to the class I may be teaching, but I have had as many issues with civilian instructors. I feel it is the club organizers responsablity to properly match these personalities to the course, as well as the students, who are the paying customer.
To stop any questions or interuptions in our classes we start off by explaining that we are NOT here to teach law, but explain it as we understand it. Students should take notes and have a follow up with THEIR attorney to get the correct letter of the law. This is now more important than it ever was with the new CCW rules, laws, interpetations, etc. This may seem like a weak class but its a fact that we are not licenced to teach the law, (unless we have a lawyer/instructor with us).
One great COP instructor we had in the class once put it very plain, he said this to the class, "I don't care what you think the law is when I pull you over. If "I" think you are guilty of something, you are going to jail. Then with a smile, and a genuine tone he explained. "you can beat the RAP, but you can't beat the RIDE". He explains to the class that cops are not to be trained by the civilian at a stop, but have learned much back at the station. Cops that get schooled at a stop get hurt.
All in all, I think we can all think back to a class we had in the past and can recall where the teacher/instructor miss-spoke, or was incorrect of their interpetaion of a fact.
I am always suprised on how much flack is created by adults in classes where we are supposed to act like adults to a higher degree. I feel students should sit back and take it all in, when at any class. Stop looking for debates from what you think you know or even what you know you know, and this goes for the LEO that is a student as well.

I have been an instuctor for over 20 years, and yet I'm still a student.

BK.

 

[Firefighterchen]

He should teach both. If he is an LEO he should teach you what the law says and teach you from his own experience. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that it is smart to inform LEO's of the concealed permit before they run a check on you and find out for themselves. It doesn't matter if you are carrying or not. If you have the permit, it doesn't make sense to NOT carry. That is how LEO's see it from my experience. He had no call to be a butthole. But the buttholes are the ones that will make an issue out of it if not informed.

There was a previous thread about informing or not. It seems to be a 60/40 split with 60% willing to inform. I do not believe its right to call 40% of the other carriers not smart for not wanting to inform.

It puts me in a bad position because I don't want to call the guy out in front of the class but I don't want the student getting bad info either.

Why did you feel this way? If he was wrong, why wouldn't you point it out? From my POV...it seems this is the problem within police departments as well, good officers not wanting to make a spectacle out of the few bad officers...which gives the whole department a bad image when the bad officer goes off the deep end. While I tend to agree with Navy where the bad information comes...I would like to see that change. Letting bad information go without correction isn't helping IMO.

 

[NavyLCDR]

While I tend to agree with Navy where the bad information comes...I would like to see that change. Letting bad information go without correction isn't helping IMO.

The three biggest sources of misinformation concerning firearms laws continue to prove themselves to be LEO, CCW Instructors and gun shop employees. Now, when you have a LEO teaching a CCW course, you can double your chances of receiving erroneous information regarding firearms laws! And if that LEO teaching the CCW course also works for an FFL on the side.... I hate to think of the possibilities!

 

[FN1910]

The three biggest sources of misinformation concerning firearms laws continue to prove themselves to be LEO, CCW Instructors and gun shop employees. Now, when you have a LEO teaching a CCW course, you can double your chances of receiving erroneous information regarding firearms laws! And if that LEO teaching the CCW course also works for an FFL on the side.... I hate to think of the possibilities!

You forgot brothers-in-law and Internet posters. :to_pick_ones_nose:

 

[Glock Fan]

I've been working with these guys for ages. Unfortunately you can't tell them a thing because they've already forgotten more than anyone else will ever know in their estimation.....

If I ever get to that point with any instructor, I wouldn't teach with them. Anyone with that kind of attitude needs to be out to pasture.

 

[GlockDoc]

I have been an instructor for many "Adult" learners. I have found the 'adult' is just as fleeting as the 'common' in "Common sense".
Also any instructor is going to teach with a lean to his beliefs/ opinons. Just so they also notify the students of what is opinion, and what is fact.
Just My Opinion. Than is a Fact!

 

[Griffworks]

I am A TX CHL instructor and I tell my students that the law says to notify only if you are carrying but out of respect I would tell them your a CHL holder even if you are not carrying because it will come up when he runs your drivers license. Now the funny thing is that even if you are carrying and you fail to tell him or show your CHL he can't do a damn thing because there is NO PENALTY for failing to notify.

This is what I do, as well - whether I'm in Arkansas or out of state. It just seems respectful to the LEO, particularly if I did something wrong. I'm teaching my first class tomorrow and that's exactly what I'll tell them - here's what the law says, here's what I recommend you do, tho you don't have to do it.

BTW, that was a pretty unprofessinoal thing that the instructor did. Even if you asked what you did in a snide manner, ALWAYS BE PROFESSINOAL. That's what I was taught by my dad years ago and what I was taught and had ingrained in me in the USAF, as well.