CCW Rules You Can Live By.

[Axeanda45]

I'm not going to even answer to the total BS just spouted at me. If I were the rest of you, I'd not bother to get him to clarify anything because it is quite obvious where his beliefs lie and his attutude is. He'll be the first one screaming for a cop when something happens.

Jackbooted thugs? Condoning murder? With my ethnicity, even a reference to Gestapo tactics and the like is something I find extremely offensive on a very personal level. Maybe I don't belong here if nothing is done about this POS.

Hmmmm, where to start........at the top I guess.....


I spouted total BS ..... please, enlighten us where is this total BS?

I haven't clarified anything? Wow, I do believe that is all that I have done, clarified the statements so even a child could understand them... but some that have posted have inserted an extra word here and there when they read my posts, and tried to make my posts say things that they do not. The more I re-post my position and point out the truth, the angrier and more belligerent they (you included) get. Not one person here has proven my statement wrong.... that there are certain times where YOU CAN RESIST ARREST and it would be lawful to do so.

My attitudes and beliefs are what? That I believe in our Constitutional Rights? My My, that makes me such a bad person........

I will be the first one screaming for the cops when something happens? Please tell us, how do you come to such a conclusion? What in any of my posts points to this? What kind of evidence do you have that this will happen? Your imagination is not proof of anything, sorry.

Jackbooted thugs? Condoning murder? Yes, you got me there, good one!!! proud of yourself? I certainly did say that, I meant it too, because that is EXACTLY what those people mentioned are.... jack-booted murderers. You say that I am bashing the police, Where? Your so-called example does not support your claim of me doing so in the least. YOU say they arent the ones that did anything wrong, that they were "just following orders"
so.......according to you..... burning women and children alive over a "possible" failure to pay a $200.00 unconstitutional tax (innocent until proven guilty, hence my "possible" statement) is ok? Shooting a 14? yr old boy in the back is ok? shooting his unarmed mother is ok? Entrapment with still more Un-Constitutional laws is ok? The oaths those public servants took means nothing? They can break it any time they have orders to do so? (disclaimer for this section of statements... I may have a few of the facts wrong, but the premise is 100% correct)

Where did I say anything about anyone's ethnicity???? Are you now trying to use the race-card ? Do you have anything besides mis-direction or name-calling to contribute to the discussion?

Calling someone a POS like you have done here, is something that is against the "rules" that you are trying to have used against me... Hmmmm, isnt there a word for that? oh yeh, hypocrisy!

 

[RussP]

Most officers in jurisdictions where concealed carry is legal are very much aware of the laws, and are not threatened by the legal carry of firearms by citizens. Most intelligent officers know that an armed citizen is there best friend.

Having said that, you never know about the experience level of the officer that you may encounter. Therefore several rules should be followed.

1) Know the laws in the jurisdiction that you are in. Texas where I am a cop, have laws that are not the same as other states. It is your responsibility to know them! Last week a guy called me from New Jeresy to ask me about CCW laws here in Texas. He knew I was a cop, concealed carry instructor, and wanted to get the straight skinny on a couple of provisions in the law.

2) Do what you are told, it may be wrong, and you may know you are right. That is a fight that you cannot win, it will all come out in the wash. Egos have been responsible for the loss of life of more than one person, don't let it happen to you. Remember you never have the authority to resist arrest, and it can get you hurt or worst. You might be right, dead-right! You can always request that the officers supervisor is called to the scene. Besides, that why we have lawyers, one of few good uses for them!

3) Keep your hands where they can be seen. I have been stopped a number of times by local, and out of state law enforcement while carrying. Even though I am a cop, they have no idea. One such encounter, I cracked the window of the vehicle and placed my hands on the steering wheel. When the officer asked for my drivers license and insurance information I informed him that my wallet, police id, and firearm where on the same side of my body. I then asked him what he wanted me to do. Remember make it their call! If driving at night, turn on the lights inside the vehicle. If you have tinted widows, roll them down, all down!

4) This one is optional, but a wise thing to do if possible. I travel all over the country bow hunting. If I know I will be staying in or near a specific town I call ahead and speak to the chief/sheriff, or other department representative. I let them know what I will be doing, where, and ask if there is any problem with me packing. I provide my vehicle information, and contact number.

Carrying conealed, even for a cop can be an interesting endevaor, which requires common sense, and good judgement. We only have to screw-up once, it might be the last time.

Scott Williams
Defensive Tactics/Tactical Firearms Instructor
http://www.blackdragonpersonalprotection.com

To those who took offense to my suggestions, they are just that. Do with them what you will. I have given you the benefit of my 27 plus years as a Patrolman, Undercover Narc, Detective, and firearms instructor.

For the gentelman who said that in some states you have the right to resist unlawful arrest, please give me the names of those states. You have the right to defend yourself, but defensive of one's person even when that illegal force is being conducted by a cop is not the defined as an arrest. This explains why under "color of law" an officer can be wrong and still protected under civil law when his/her actions showed the correct intent.

I am not here to teach a course on law, nor was my thread written for any other purpose than to limit the danger when being stopped by a cop. I am well aware of the bad feelings that many of you have about cops. I am not here to be an advocate for police, nor am I going to say that we get it right all the time.

It was my understanding, correct me if I am wrong because I have been wrong before, that this is a Concealed Carry forum. That being the case, I gave the best advice that I could to prevent some law abiding citizen from being shot. Bad things do happen to good people, as a cop I am sworn to stop those when I can and before they happen sounds like a good time to do it!

I have had guns pointed at me by cops, the reason I am still here is because I knew what not to do. If I can prevent one such accident then I have done my job. Being a cop is what I do for a living, it is not who I am. I am far more interesting then that. Like you, I have people I love and care for. Some of those people carry, and I want them to be safe.

As for the time when the government attempts to disarm it's citizens, I will surrender my badge on that day and will stand with all who love this country and their right to bear arms!

Thanks, Scott, for your insight and suggestions... Those of us who carry should remember this: "That being the case, I gave the best advice that I could to prevent some law abiding citizen from being shot. Bad things do happen to good people, as a cop I am sworn to stop those when I can and before they happen sounds like a good time to do it!"

Another point to be emphasized is when interacting with police, the average citizen does not know the totality of the circumstances surrounding an encounter. I know that from personal experiences. One should not assume one is the center of the world, the sole player in a situation. There may be moving parts you do not know about.

Television, the movies, the internet, they are not the real world. There will be no director to yell, "CUT! Lets redo that." Plan accordingly.

 

[blkdragon]

RussP,

Thank you for those quotes from my earlier post. The purpose of the thread in the first place was to inform. I would be misstating the facts if I said I did not care if people took the advice. I am not smarter than anyone else, I am not seeking any kind of attention. I am however doing what I can to support the 2nd Amendment and encourage as many law abiding citizens as possible to exercise their God give right to self defense. I do it in the most responsible way possible, and while some choose to argue unimportant parts of what I have stated, most appear to have gotten the gist of what I was aiming at.

I originally joined this forum because it was the most thought provoking of many I have visited. I joined it because I felt that my experiences, training, and insights may be useful. I like most of you support law enforcement, I just happen to do it with a badge. I welcome differing opinions, but this thread has been hijacked. So to that end, if anyone wishes to contact me regarding any question about law enforcement procedures, please feel free to send me an email through this site, or my website. I will get back to you as soon as possible.

The law enforcement community in general support concealed carry by law abiding citizens, we understand that it makes our job easier, not more difficult. There has been more than one time, even before concealed carry became legal in Texas, where I work, that a citizen has come to my aid armed and ready. Thank you all who have taken up the mantle of freedom, as an armed citizenry will keep the people representing us honest. I also wish to thank you all for the kindness I have been shown. I have a thick skin when it comes to attacks, I guess it is natural when people have tried to run over you, after you have been shot at, fighting for your life with ex-cons, and threatened with bodily injury. However kind words are somewhat of a novelty.

 

[JJFlash]

To LEO on the site: I have posted before where I stand on LE - as long as I and my civil rights are treated with respect, I fully support LEO and would not hesitate to back one up who was pinned down and taking serious fire. OTOH, if you, as an agent of the gov't, run roughshod over the citizenry, ignoring Constitutional rights, then you become part of the problem. Seems straightforward enough.

I appreciate your guys' input and would hope you don't abandon the site just cause you get po'ed at someone's post. That's always gonna happen.

FWIW.

 

[WJN Firearms]

Wonderful words, Scott. True as true can be, undeniable.

One issue that may be at some of the root of concerns for concealed carriers, non LE that is primarily, is that officer survival has become a very hot button issue with LE, more so than ever. The statistics that are there for anyone to see at officerdown.com or the NLEOMF web site tell the tale. Right here in Western Pa., we have lost 5 brothers in blue since April 4, 2009, three in Pittsburgh, one in an Eastern suburb and one in Venango County, the most recent. Four local officers and one state trooper. The last LOD death prior here was in 2005 when a state trooper lost his life during a traffic stop. The numbers are worse elsewhere.

LEOs have never had to be more concerned for armed encounters since the days of prohibition on the streets of Chicago. This is very much why one that is carrying legally and for whatever reason, totally valid or not, finds himself/herself in a situation with a patrol officer, all we would like to see is good old fashioned horse sense come out on top. Any officer, urban, rural, highway patrolman, county sheriff, whatever, is going to be thinking that he/she wants to be able to go home after shift not unlike any of you. It's a damn shame that everyone has to be eyed as a potential aggressor, but what does a real aggressor look like? Just like any of us, obviously. Until clairvoyance becomes a pre-requisite for becoming an LEO or, better still, skells stop killing cops wholesale, this is the sad reality we all have to live with.

Remember one thing. If a person will kill a cop, what would stop him from killing any of you or your family members? There is no magic formula that can be taught at the academy to ID cop killers before they do so. I do want to be clear, though. I never have, and never will, advocate violating anyone's civil rights in the process of what I have said previously. I am a firm believe that there is most always a right way to do most everything. Your reactions in this kind of situation can go a long way to helping preserve your rights and avoiding a potential needless tragedy.

 

[PX4storm]

I want to preface this with a statement:

I personally have NOTHING against Police Officers that follow the law. They have a very tough job and I believe are underpaid and under appreciated for it. For example, I expect to be pulled over if I am speeding, and I would deserve any ticket or fine I receive.


I have no problems with them making honest mistakes, we all make mistakes. Not being held responsible for those mistakes is something I do have something against. There are many, many examples of Police officers getting away with myriads of crimes (mistakes?) that joe citizen would have been castrated for.

Just google "the only ones files" for an example.

Here is proof to back up what I said in an earlier post on this thread:


Citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting officer's life if necessary." Plummer v. State, 136 Ind. 306. This premise was upheld by the Supreme Court of the United States in the case: John Bad Elk v. U.S., 177 U.S. 529.

Read the story in the link below ......... if you need more details "google" "yahoo" or "bing" it, granted the SOB was drunk, since when does that carry a death sentance. Also, I think as a socity we lean towards "Hero Worship" just because someone is a LEO, IT's A JOB.

Link Removed