CCW Rules You Can Live By.

[Axeanda45]

How about quoting your answer, please. Either you are or you ae not - yes or no.

post # 14 in this thread

 

[CaptAmerica]

Wow, just wow, I am so sorry that you have no clue... let me try again...

YOU CANNOT RESIST ARREST AFTER THE ARREST HAS ALREADY HAPPENED!

It is a little too late, the time to do so has already passed.....

I have read your posts... (shaking my head in amazement)
You say I have no clue?? Buddy you are now talking about Waco and Ruby Ridge - Whiskey Tango Foxtrot??

The OP gave suggestions on what you should do if pulled over by LEO in order to make things easier on you and LEO.

You say things like read the whole thread. TAKE YOUR OWN ADVICE and read the OP! My God NO ONE including the OPer is saying just let the cops unlawfully search your home, take your guns, rape your wife, burn your house down or anything else of the like. We all stand for our rights.
However when you post things like cops committing murder and the courts are biased you just make your self look totaly clueless.
Is our country perfect? Hell no! Are there things going on in the courts and in law enforcment that are wrong? YES! But we live in a country where WE the people have the power to change that. We have laws and the power of a vote. FIGHT yes, but fight the right way, get a clue man! You are on a public forum advocating resisting arrest and implying you WILL shoot the first LEO who asks you to step out of the car. You do not sound like a conservative, nor a patriot - you sound like a radical zealot!

I do have a clue. I have many friends who are LEOS. I know Cops, detectives, a police chief and a sheriff. I know they all have one thing in common; they want to go home at night. They have no CLUE who you are when they pull you over and out of a since of self preservation they MUST be on guard. If you start arguing and resisting anything short of being illegally beaten or having your home illegally searched you will wind up dead or in jail for a very long time.

If you want to be a cowboy and go out in a blaze of glory then go ahead, don't ask me to stand with you. I am to busy trying to make sure my grandchildren get to grow up in the same America that I did.

 

[RussP]

post # 14 in this thread

There are a few situations where the only choice for a free man/woman is to NOT obey unlawful orders from police. If you do not have those instances already figured out/decided upon before they happen..... May your chains rest lightly............

The courts have proven that they are biased on some types of quote "laws/regulations" and you cannot get a fair trial. There are some "Federal" agencies who have, and still do falsify evidence and lie in court. Why would you want to go along with the unlawful/false arrest if you have no other chance of justice?

This is something we all need to decide for ourselves, where our own certain line in the sand is...... I myself will die a free man, if I am FORCED to defend myself. (yes, that is the correct word, they have the choice to obey the constitution instead of infringing on MY Constitutional Rights, THEY would be breaking their oaths and the Supreme Law of this land, not me)

If enough of us so-called 2nd Amendment supporters would actually give our lives, or at last be willing to without a doubt, then the 2nd Amendment would actually be a deterrent to those in power, instead of a little nuisance/irritant. Is that not the main reason it was included in the Bill of Rights?

Talk/posts of "you should alway's do what the nice officer say's" is only re-enforcing their false/illegal power and weakening ours, they are taking away our freedoms, and you that talk that way are helping them.

Now, before you start flaming me........ I am NOT saying that you should shoot a cop over a speeding ticket, or refuse to give him your name, or be an idiot about small matters/situations. What I AM saying is that we each need to think about just what we will and will not allow to be done to us. We need to have the training (and resolve) to defend ourselves if/when we need to, regardless if the person we are defending ourselves from has a uniform or badge...........

What exactly is your line in the sand? What will you not allow to be done to you by a person who has a uniform or badge?

You say not a speeding ticket, not over a request for a name, or some small matter/situation. What is the unreasonable act by law enforcement that you feel justifies your use of deadly force against them?

 

[Axeanda45]

What exactly is your line in the sand? What will you not allow to be done to you by a person who has a uniform or badge?

You say not a speeding ticket, not over a request for a name, or some small matter/situation. What is the unreasonable act by law enforcement that you feel justifies your use of deadly force against them?

My goodness, must I make a recording of it and send it to you? read the second paragraph in that post you quoted from me............. read my other posts...... go away........

 

[Bighouse Doc]

I smell a troll

YOU smell a troll???
:wacko:

-Doc

 

[Axeanda45]

I have read your posts... (shaking my head in amazement)
You say I have no clue?? Buddy you are now talking about Waco and Ruby Ridge - Whiskey Tango Foxtrot??

The OP gave suggestions on what you should do if pulled over by LEO in order to make things easier on you and LEO.

You say things like read the whole thread. TAKE YOUR OWN ADVICE and read the OP! My God NO ONE including the OPer is saying just let the cops unlawfully search your home, take your guns, rape your wife, burn your house down or anything else of the like. We all stand for our rights.
However when you post things like cops committing murder and the courts are biased you just make your self look totaly clueless.
Is our country perfect? Hell no! Are there things going on in the courts and in law enforcment that are wrong? YES! But we live in a country where WE the people have the power to change that. We have laws and the power of a vote. FIGHT yes, but fight the right way, get a clue man! You are on a public forum advocating resisting arrest and implying you WILL shoot the first LEO who asks you to step out of the car. You do not sound like a conservative, nor a patriot - you sound like a radical zealot!

I do have a clue. I have many friends who are LEOS. I know Cops, detectives, a police chief and a sheriff. I know they all have one thing in common; they want to go home at night. They have no CLUE who you are when they pull you over and out of a since of self preservation they MUST be on guard. If you start arguing and resisting anything short of being illegally beaten or having your home illegally searched you will wind up dead or in jail for a very long time.

If you want to be a cowboy and go out in a blaze of glory then go ahead, don't ask me to stand with you. I am to busy trying to make sure my grandchildren get to grow up in the same America that I did.


The subject that was being discussed is resisting arrest.
NOT what constitutes false arrest,
NOT unlawful arrest...

Why have you gone off on this tangent?
You have now proven beyond a doubt that you have no clue.

Do yourself and others reading this thread a favor..... read the ENTIRE THREAD, IN ORDER.......then you will see why I responded to that particular post you have such a hard-on over. Then make your statement, all you have done so far is show your ignorance by going off on a tangent about something you imagined in your head that you think I said, instead of actually reading it and comprehending the words.

 

[RussP]

My goodness, must I make a recording of it and send it to you? read the second paragraph in that post you quoted from me.............

The courts have proven that they are biased on some types of quote "laws/regulations" and you cannot get a fair trial. There are some "Federal" agencies who have, and still do falsify evidence and lie in court. Why would you want to go along with the unlawful/false arrest if you have no other chance of justice?

read my other posts...... go away........

In reading your other posts I understand you do not recognize lower court decisions and the resulting case law. You focus on unlawful/false arrest basing the "unlawful/false" on your rejection of those decisions and the case law. I believe you even reject some SCOTUS decisions you find inconvenient. And say you will use lethal force against those enforcing the laws you reject.

My question remains, what specific laws if enforced will result in your killing those sent to enforce them? You know what they are. You've said you do and you challenged others to draw their lines in the sand.

I look forward to your honest answers.

 

[Axeanda45]

To some on this forum:

Please, don't read one post at the end of a thread, or even in the middle, without taking into account the rest of the thread, especially if there are multiple posts by one person. You need to read all the posts by that person in the order they are posted and see what they are responding to and why. A lot of the responses and posts on this thread would not have even been here if people didnt butt in to middle of the conversation without knowing the entire discussion......

 

[Axeanda45]

In reading your other posts I understand you do not recognize lower court decisions and the resulting case law. You focus on unlawful/false arrest basing the "unlawful/false" on your rejection of those decisions and the case law. I believe you even reject some SCOTUS decisions you find inconvenient. And say you will use lethal force against those enforcing the laws you reject.

My question remains, what specific laws if enforced will result in your killing those sent to enforce them? You know what they are. You've said you do and you challenged others to draw their lines in the sand.

I look forward to your honest answers.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Snip* Should the government order the confiscation of all arms, fine.Snip*
That bolded area in the quote is what I was talking about, most all others aren't worth it. BTW, any cop killer won't live very long,even if it was justified/self-defense, that is just the nature of things now.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If enough of us so-called 2nd Amendment supporters would actually give our lives, or at last be willing to without a doubt, then the 2nd Amendment would actually be a deterrent to those in power, instead of a little nuisance/irritant. Is that not the main reason it was included in the Bill of Rights?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The courts have proven that they are biased on some types of quote "laws/regulations" and you cannot get a fair trial. There are some "Federal" agencies who have, and still do falsify evidence and lie in court. Why would you want to go along with the unlawful/false arrest if you have no other chance of justice?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The police (mainly Federal ) have a proven track-record of abuse and even murder (Waco, Ruby Ridge, and more) They have framed honest, law-abiding citizens because their firearm broke! (Olofson)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am sorry if the above copy and paste of some of my posts isnt enough of an answer, I feel that they more than answer your question.......

 

[RussP]

Thank you.

 

[CaptAmerica]

The subject that was being discussed is resisting arrest.
NOT what constitutes false arrest,
NOT unlawful arrest...

Why have you gone off on this tangent?
You have now proven beyond a doubt that you have no clue.

Do yourself and others reading this thread a favor..... read the ENTIRE THREAD, IN ORDER.......then you will see why I responded to that particular post you have such a hard-on over. Then make your statement, all you have done so far is show your ignorance by going off on a tangent about something you imagined in your head that you think I said, instead of actually reading it and comprehending the words.

I have read the entire post start to finish.
The subject was NOT resisting arrest.
YOU interjected on this thread, and myself and others simply asked for clarification.
" Why would you want to go along with the unlawful/false arrest if you have no other chance of justice?"
Define unlawfull arrest... why was that an issue???

Talk/posts of "you should alway's do what the nice officer say's" is only re-enforcing their false/illegal power

DO NOT come at me with your greater than thou arrogance when I respond to things YOU posted in this thread.
DO NOT presume you know me well enough to call me ignorant.
DO NOT start throwing jabs and insults at me and others then get PO'd we put up with the arrogance.

I was not picking a fight, I was asking you to please clarify your statements and then giving MY OPINION on the topic at hand as well as giving some of my background as to give you insight on my point of view.

You did not make your point of view clear, therefore myself and others where simply questioning you so we would understand your comments.

Now you have a choice to make, act like a butt nugget and keep screaming how you are the only one who reads the thread and you are the only one who knows anything. OR Accept a little questioning on your point of view, and possibly engage in some healthy debate.


There's no excuse for bad manners
- John Wayne
Nuff said

 

[Axeanda45]

I have read the entire post start to finish.
The subject was NOT resisting arrest.
YOU interjected on this thread, and myself and others simply asked for clarification.
" Why would you want to go along with the unlawful/false arrest if you have no other chance of justice?"
Define unlawfull arrest... why was that an issue???

Talk/posts of "you should alway's do what the nice officer say's" is only re-enforcing their false/illegal power

DO NOT come at me with your greater than thou arrogance when I respond to things YOU posted in this thread.
DO NOT presume you know me well enough to call me ignorant.
DO NOT start throwing jabs and insults at me and others then get PO'd we put up with the arrogance.

I was not picking a fight, I was asking you to please clarify your statements and then giving MY OPINION on the topic at hand as well as giving some of my background as to give you insight on my point of view.

You did not make your point of view clear, therefore myself and others where simply questioning you so we would understand your comments.

Now you have a choice to make, act like a butt nugget and keep screaming how you are the only one who reads the thread and you are the only one who knows anything. OR Accept a little questioning on your point of view, and possibly engage in some healthy debate.


There's no excuse for bad manners
- John Wayne
Nuff said

There you go again, deflecting and changing the subject., calling names........And Blaming me for your false ideas of what you THINK I SAID. I will entertain your "holier than though bullshit" no longer, I gave you more than enough chances to prove your allegations and all you do is make more of them. You are now on my ignore list, I will not see any more of your posts. Goodbye

 

[CaptAmerica]

There you go again, deflecting and changing the subject., calling names........And Blaming me for your false ideas of what you THINK I SAID. I will entertain your "holier than though bullshit" no longer, I gave you more than enough chances to prove your allegations and all you do is make more of them. You are now on my ignore list, I will not see any more of your posts. Goodbye

LMAO!!!!!!!!
:lol:

ok, ok I am sorry if I high jacked the the thread here.

Honestly I think I am an open minded, was I 'deflecting and changing the subject?? I thought I WAS proving my allegations by supplying his quotes...

Ahh... bye-bye

 

[RussP]

Well, I do have one more question...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Snip* Should the government order the confiscation of all arms, fine.Snip*
That bolded area in the quote is what I was talking about, most all others aren't worth it.

...I am sorry if the above copy and paste of some of my posts isnt enough of an answer, I feel that they more than answer your question.......

You say "most all others...", implying there are some others you'd use deadly force against LE to protect. What are these 'others'?

Just trying to understand your position.

 

[Axeanda45]

RussP,
The quoted text said "Should the government order the confiscation of all arms"


There are other ways the "Government" or their representatives (police, federal or local) can unlawfully try to take your guns away.
Before you ask what I mean by "unlawfully", I will say this.... SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
You said this a few posts ago:
In reading your other posts I understand you do not recognize lower court decisions and the resulting case law. You focus on unlawful/false arrest basing the "unlawful/false" on your rejection of those decisions and the case law. I believe you even reject some SCOTUS decisions you find inconvenient. And say you will use lethal force against those enforcing the laws you reject.

I dont see where I implied or said anything of this sort at all, what caused you to come to this conclusion? The OP said that we can NEVER resist arrest lawfully, I proved him wrong, citing 1 SC case, and Texas Law/statutes, since he is in Texas. What other court cases and case law has been discussed on this thread?

 

[RussP]

RussP,
The quoted text said "Should the government order the confiscation of all arms"


There are other ways the "Government" or their representatives (police, federal or local) can unlawfully try to take your guns away.
Before you ask what I mean by "unlawfully", I will say this.... SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
You said this a few posts ago:
In reading your other posts I understand you do not recognize lower court decisions and the resulting case law. You focus on unlawful/false arrest basing the "unlawful/false" on your rejection of those decisions and the case law. I believe you even reject some SCOTUS decisions you find inconvenient. And say you will use lethal force against those enforcing the laws you reject.

I dont see where I implied or said anything of this sort at all, what caused you to come to this conclusion? The OP said that we can NEVER resist arrest lawfully, I proved him wrong, citing 1 SC case, and Texas Law/statutes, since he is in Texas. What other court cases and case law has been discussed on this thread?

You do post on other forums, some I quoted here: http://www.usacarry.com/forums/leo-...-gun-point-carried-ak-47-a-27.html#post106559

Going back to that other forum and this thread ( Ohioans For Concealed Carry Discussion Forums • View topic - Notify at home? ) here are more of your thoughts on courts and their rulings you feel are unconstitutional:

... ANY law about firearms is unconstitutional and I have no moral or legal obligation to adhere to them. I know there can be consequences to disobeying them, but that works both ways.
Ever read unintended consequences?...

...ALL LAWS that have anything whatsoever to do with firearms are 100% UNCONSTITUTIONAL and I only obey the ones that I DECIDE to, not because they are the so called "law", but because they are merely inconveniences at the time, and not worth the trouble enough to have to kill someone and go to prison or be killed myself.

I have explained myself already, any law that does not line up with the Constitution is null and void.

That is incorrect, the Constitution is the final authority, not the supreme court.

ANY LAW THAT CONTRADICTS THE CONSTITUTION IS NOT A BINDING LAW

Sure, you can be arrested for it, found guilty of it, even killed for it, but that does NOT make it constitutional. Period, end of story.

It does not change when some judges make it say something the original meaning/definition does not say. The constitution can only be changed by a Constitutional convention, and voted on (decided by) a majority of the States.

The second amendment states in part.. "Shall Not be Infringed" That, to me, say's that NO law may be passed that has anything whatsoever to do with firearms. The States, in order to join the United States, agreed to the constitution as written. They are bound by that agreement, period.

In my opinion (which is all that follows) Certain laws have gone way beyond what the constitution allows, regardless what judges or lawyers say.

Again, I do not think I was doing this, and dont recall ever saying the SC IS violating the Second Amendment, I was trying to say that laws that have to do with firearms are unconstitutional and violate the Second Amendment. Could some of them maybe be binding from a Constitutional standpoint? In very few cases, I suppose there are some I could agree with, maybe ones about not allowing me to own grenades or something like that. But is a grenade a firearm? Lots of really gray areas we could discuss for hours, but that is away from the original topic.

Are there some of those laws that I do actually agree with and follow? Yes.

Are there other laws on the books that violate other parts of the constitution that I agree with/follow? Yes.

Will I, personally, at my own home, as an OHIO CHL holder, notify a police officer that comes to my door without a warrant that I have a CHL and am presently armed? NO

Am I telling/forcing others here to do the same as I would in that situation? NO

Am I fully aware that this would break "the law" and am I ready to suffer whatever happens because I did not follow that particular law? Yes

Those are just cut and pasted from that thread.

True, in the last few entries you do admit you do follow other laws you deem unconstitutional and you do say you do not tell or force others to do as you do, and that is good.

 

[Axeanda45]

RussP,

This thread , the one you are reading now is the one we are discussing, NO OTHER! Mentioning posts from other threads and from other forums, where those you pasted here are from, like you did is extremely confusing to all who read the thread. Keep all posts in the correct thread and FORUM!!!!!

If you have questions such as you posed to me, you could have asked me in a PM or started another thread. This thread is NOT the same subject as the thread you got those other quotes from. Yes, I wrote them, not saying I didnt at all, but they don't apply here in this thread, they are about different subjects/circumstances.

 

[CaptAmerica]

RussP,

This thread , the one you are reading now is the one we are discussing, NO OTHER! Mentioning posts from other threads, like you did saying I had said I would not follow certain laws and such, is extremely confusing to all who read the thread. Keep all posts in the correct thread!!!!!

If you have questions such as you posed to me, you could have asked me in a PM or started another thread. This thread is NOT the same subject as the thread you got those other quotes from. Yes, I wrote them, not saying I didnt at all, but they don't apply here in this thread, they are about different subjects/circumstances.

Touchy???

As an outsider looking in, it seams to me RussP is still trying to understand the statements that were made in this thread by relating them to other statements.
For what it's worth, I'm not confused at all... but what do I know???

 

[actionshooter]

RussP,

This thread , the one you are reading now is the one we are discussing, NO OTHER! Mentioning posts from other threads and from other forums, where those you pasted here are from, like you did is extremely confusing to all who read the thread. Keep all posts in the correct thread and FORUM!!!!!

If you have questions such as you posed to me, you could have asked me in a PM or started another thread. This thread is NOT the same subject as the thread you got those other quotes from. Yes, I wrote them, not saying I didnt at all, but they don't apply here in this thread, they are about different subjects/circumstances.

Are you God? A moderator? The OP?

No?

Cool. Let's start over.

You have NO "right" to resist a lawful arrest.

A lawful arrest is defined as an arrest made with good probable cause and with the minimum amount of force necessary to make the arrest.

It doesn't matter "if you did it". It doesn't matter if you want to go to jail. It doesn't matter.

And yes, the courts do decide what constitutes a "lawful arrest" and and "excessive force". You get to guess and hope you guess correctly.

There are a few situations where the only choice for a free man/woman is to NOT obey unlawful orders from police. If you do not have those instances already figured out/decided upon before they happen..... May your chains rest lightly............

Talk/posts of "you should alway's do what the nice officer say's" is only re-enforcing their false/illegal power and weakening ours, they are taking away our freedoms, and you that talk that way are helping them.

Explain what "unlawful orders" you are referring to in the referenced post.

Explain what "false/illegal power" you are referencing in the above post

Hopefully these questions will be clear and explicit enough that you will not feel the need to sidestep them as you repeatedly have others throughout this thread.

 

[Alaskamike]

GREAT origional post. Thank you. Those of us who take on the responsibiity to CCW should be the most calm in every situation. If you have no control of your own behavior, cannot control your anger, fear, or response - think very hard about CCW.
We all know this is no game of cowboys and indians - people can and do get killed by guns. Whatever an officer told me to do I would do it, I would keep my hands in plain sight and move slowly and deliberatly. This includes your behavior if - God forbid - you are ever involved in a shooting and officers arrive before you've laid your weapon down. Or even after. I would suggest to all to buy and read Massad Ayoob's book In the Gravest Extreme.
Thank you again for the info - could save lives.