CCW Rules You Can Live By.
blkdragon

blkdragon

New member
Most officers in jurisdictions where concealed carry is legal are very much aware of the laws, and are not threatened by the legal carry of firearms by citizens. Most intelligent officers know that an armed citizen is there best friend.

Having said that, you never know about the experience level of the officer that you may encounter. Therefore several rules should be followed.

1) Know the laws in the jurisdiction that you are in. Texas where I am a cop, have laws that are not the same as other states. It is your responsibility to know them! Last week a guy called me from New Jeresy to ask me about CCW laws here in Texas. He knew I was a cop, concealed carry instructor, and wanted to get the straight skinny on a couple of provisions in the law.

2) Do what you are told, it may be wrong, and you may know you are right. That is a fight that you cannot win, it will all come out in the wash. Egos have been responsible for the loss of life of more than one person, don't let it happen to you. Remember you never have the authority to resist arrest, and it can get you hurt or worst. You might be right, dead-right! You can always request that the officers supervisor is called to the scene. Besides, that why we have lawyers, one of few good uses for them!

3) Keep your hands where they can be seen. I have been stopped a number of times by local, and out of state law enforcement while carrying. Even though I am a cop, they have no idea. One such encounter, I cracked the window of the vehicle and placed my hands on the steering wheel. When the officer asked for my drivers license and insurance information I informed him that my wallet, police id, and firearm where on the same side of my body. I then asked him what he wanted me to do. Remember make it their call! If driving at night, turn on the lights inside the vehicle. If you have tinted widows, roll them down, all down!

4) This one is optional, but a wise thing to do if possible. I travel all over the country bow hunting. If I know I will be staying in or near a specific town I call ahead and speak to the chief/sheriff, or other department representative. I let them know what I will be doing, where, and ask if there is any problem with me packing. I provide my vehicle information, and contact number.

Carrying conealed, even for a cop can be an interesting endevaor, which requires common sense, and good judgement. We only have to screw-up once, it might be the last time.

Scott Williams
Defensive Tactics/Tactical Firearms Instructor
http://www.blackdragonpersonalprotection.com
 

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Ego and macho do get people in almost as much trouble as a few too many beers.

This is one place and time when that saying, "Relax and enjoy it" actually makes sense.

Thanks for the advice, Officer.
 
Thank you for the advice. I will be taking my CCW training on sunday and have been reading as much as I can in the last couple of weeks. Again, thanks for taking the time
 
blkdragon said:
Remember you never have the authority to resist arrest
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You are quite wrong here sir, in some states you DO have the right to resist (false) arrest, up to and including using lethal force.

You are correct though, in that it can get you very hurt or worse...............

I, for one, WILL resist false arrest for certain things and not for others. Some rights/circumstances are worth it, others are not .
 
Axeanda45 said:
You are quite wrong here sir, in some states you DO have the right to resist (false) arrest, up to and including using lethal force.

You are correct though, in that it can get you very hurt or worse...............

I, for one, WILL resist false arrest for certain things and not for others. Some rights/circumstances are worth it, others are not .
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You'd better be damn sure that its a false arrest, and even so cop-killers aren't smiled at. I find it absolutely terrible that anyone here would resist arrest. Should the government order the confiscation of all arms, fine. If its some misinformed cop who wants to arrest you/detain you- just go along with it. File a complaint & a lawsuit, and be on your merry way, alive, and not a cop killer.

If ever I were unlawfully detained, or arrested I'd fully cooperate with the officer, be released/charges dismissed eventually (assuming I was in the right) and retire off the settlement offered by the agency. There is no need to resist an LEO in this circumstance.

As for some things like rolling down tinted windows- eh, up to you I wouldn't but...this Officer has given generally good advice.
 
ClearSightTactical said:
You'd better be damn sure that its a false arrest, and even so cop-killers aren't smiled at. I find it absolutely terrible that anyone here would resist arrest. Should the government order the confiscation of all arms, fine. If its some misinformed cop who wants to arrest you/detain you- just go along with it. File a complaint & a lawsuit, and be on your merry way, alive, and not a cop killer.

If ever I were unlawfully detained, or arrested I'd fully cooperate with the officer, be released/charges dismissed eventually (assuming I was in the right) and retire off the settlement offered by the agency. There is no need to resist an LEO in this circumstance.
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That bolded area in the quote is what I was talking about, most all others aren't worth it. BTW, any cop killer won't live very long,even if it was justified/self-defense, that is just the nature of things now.

We also need to consider how the courts are today, there are some items/subjects where you can no longer receive a fair trial. In those cases, I would rather take a few of them with me than have them railroad me into prison with no real chance at justice in the courts.

This government no longer fears the citizens, and the police are getting more and more into the us vs them thinking, it is not looking good.
 
The one to me that holds the most weight is "KEEP YOU HANDS WHERE THEY CAN BE SEEN".

The rest of the advice is also excellent to understand, especially asking the officer how he wants you to proceed.
 
To those who took offense to my suggestions, they are just that. Do with them what you will. I have given you the benefit of my 27 plus years as a Patrolman, Undercover Narc, Detective, and firearms instructor.

For the gentelman who said that in some states you have the right to resist unlawful arrest, please give me the names of those states. You have the right to defend yourself, but defensive of one's person even when that illegal force is being conducted by a cop is not the defined as an arrest. This explains why under "color of law" an officer can be wrong and still protected under civil law when his/her actions showed the correct intent.

I am not here to teach a course on law, nor was my thread written for any other purpose than to limit the danger when being stopped by a cop. I am well aware of the bad feelings that many of you have about cops. I am not here to be an advocate for police, nor am I going to say that we get it right all the time.

It was my understanding, correct me if I am wrong because I have been wrong before, that this is a Concealed Carry forum. That being the case, I gave the best advice that I could to prevent some law abiding citizen from being shot. Bad things do happen to good people, as a cop I am sworn to stop those when I can and before they happen sounds like a good time to do it!

I have had guns pointed at me by cops, the reason I am still here is because I knew what not to do. If I can prevent one such accident then I have done my job. Being a cop is what I do for a living, it is not who I am. I am far more interesting then that. Like you, I have people I love and care for. Some of those people carry, and I want them to be safe.

As for the time when the government attempts to disarm it's citizens, I will surrender my badge on that day and will stand with all who love this country and their right to bear arms!
 
blkdragon said:
I am well aware of the bad feelings that many of you have about cops. I am not here to be an advocate for police, nor am I going to say that we get it right all the time.

As for the time when the government attempts to disarm it's citizens, I will surrender my badge on that day and will stand with all who love this country and their right to bear arms!
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I for one fully support our LEO and you for being a LEO. I appreciate you taking time out of your day to let people know what not to do, it literally could save their life.

I have no problem with cops, Especially you after your last statement.
 
I want to preface this with a statement:

I personally have NOTHING against Police Officers that follow the law. They have a very tough job and I believe are underpaid and under appreciated for it. For example, I expect to be pulled over if I am speeding, and I would deserve any ticket or fine I receive.


I have no problems with them making honest mistakes, we all make mistakes. Not being held responsible for those mistakes is something I do have something against. There are many, many examples of Police officers getting away with myriads of crimes (mistakes?) that joe citizen would have been castrated for.

Just google "the only ones files" for an example.

Here is proof to back up what I said in an earlier post on this thread:


Citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting officer's life if necessary." Plummer v. State, 136 Ind. 306. This premise was upheld by the Supreme Court of the United States in the case: John Bad Elk v. U.S., 177 U.S. 529.



Texas Penal code
Section 9.31. Self-Defense

§ 9.31. SELF-DEFENSE. (a) Except as provided in
Subsection (b), a person is justified in using force against
another when and to the degree he reasonably believes the force is
immediately necessary to protect himself against the other's use or
attempted use of unlawful force.
(b) The use of force against another is not justified:
(1) in response to verbal provocation alone;
(2) to resist an arrest or search that the actor knows
is being made by a peace officer, or by a person acting in a peace
officer's presence and at his direction, even though the arrest or
search is unlawful, unless the resistance is justified under
Subsection (c);
(c) The use of force to resist an arrest or search is
justified:
(1) if, before the actor offers any resistance, the
peace officer (or person acting at his direction) uses or attempts
to use greater force than necessary to make the arrest or search;
and
(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably
believes the force is immediately necessary to protect himself
against the peace officer's (or other person's) use or attempted use
of greater force than necessary.
§ 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON. (a) A person
is justified in using deadly force against another:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the
other under Section 9.31; see "c" above
(2) if a reasonable person in the actor's situation
would not have retreated; and
(3) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to protect himself against the other's use or
attempted use of unlawful deadly force; or
(B) to prevent the other's imminent commission of
aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual
assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.
(b) The requirement imposed by Subsection (a)(2) does not
apply to an actor who uses force against a person who is at the time
of the use of force committing an offense of unlawful entry in the
habitation of the actor.
 
All good advice. thank you. Remember that you don't know whats going on with that patrol unit, Is he on a apb for a car just like yours.
 
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Thanks for the comments Scott.

I have been held at gun point a time or two and it is no fun looking down the business end of a gun or two with a rookie cop with an itchy trigger finger.

If I carry I accept that LEOs may not believe I am a fine upstanding citizen upon immediate contact. I accept that I may create fear in the LEO because I carry and they do not know my intent or my history (or lack of it). I also accept that the LEO may feel the need to disarm me until they understand why I have a firearm on my person. I don't think these are unreasonable actions in todays world.

We had a female LEO shot and killed recently so I expect other LEOs in the state to be a bit jumpy. I have no intention to make them afraid of me or to misunderstand my intent with my firearm. I will do what ever is required to protect myself from being accidentally misunderstood by my actions or lack of them.

Resisting direct orders by a LEO is an invitation for disaster. There is nothing to be gained by doing so except for a long and difficult encounter...or maybe a very short and deadly one. Why risk it? Put yourself in their place...approaching an unknown person and suddenly finding out they are armed. That is why I would do everything I could to make sure the LEO does not see me as a threat. Compliance to their orders is easy and very well may keep you alive.

I won't comment on the comments dealing with resisting a LEO. If you resist you can expect the full wrath (with backup) of the LEO. Not my cup of tea.
 
There are a few situations where the only choice for a free man/woman is to NOT obey unlawful orders from police. If you do not have those instances already figured out/decided upon before they happen..... May your chains rest lightly............

The courts have proven that they are biased on some types of quote "laws/regulations" and you cannot get a fair trial. There are some "Federal" agencies who have, and still do falsify evidence and lie in court. Why would you want to go along with the unlawful/false arrest if you have no other chance of justice?

This is something we all need to decide for ourselves, where our own certain line in the sand is...... I myself will die a free man, if I am FORCED to defend myself. (yes, that is the correct word, they have the choice to obey the constitution instead of infringing on MY Constitutional Rights, THEY would be breaking their oaths and the Supreme Law of this land, not me)

If enough of us so-called 2nd Amendment supporters would actually give our lives, or at last be willing to without a doubt, then the 2nd Amendment would actually be a deterrent to those in power, instead of a little nuisance/irritant. Is that not the main reason it was included in the Bill of Rights?

Talk/posts of "you should alway's do what the nice officer say's" is only re-enforcing their false/illegal power and weakening ours, they are taking away our freedoms, and you that talk that way are helping them.

Now, before you start flaming me........ I am NOT saying that you should shoot a cop over a speeding ticket, or refuse to give him your name, or be an idiot about small matters/situations. What I AM saying is that we each need to think about just what we will and will not allow to be done to us. We need to have the training (and resolve) to defend ourselves if/when we need to, regardless if the person we are defending ourselves from has a uniform or badge...........
 
Common Sense rules

I live in Ohio 6 months of the year. We have open and concealed carry. I carry all the time. I am very pro Second Amendment. In fact I am an NRA pistol instructor and teach the Ohio CHL calss

In the summer I work out in Yellowstone NP and I hike all over the place. I carry when I hike outside the park. This year, because of the law changes, I will be carrying inside the park.

I carry and no one knows it. I pack a full sized 1911 and no one knows it. NO ONE KNOWS IT! NO ONE KNOWS IT!

I'm sorry, but, if you are carrying an exposed AK47 lookalike when you are hiking, you are just trying to force a confrontation. You set out to be confrontational and you got what you wanted. You wanted to be the center of attention and shock people. Actions like this hurt us more than the Brady Anti Gun Freaks do. It makes us all look like lunatics. Every time this happens people start donating to the Brady Bunch and I have to write more checks to the NRA to counter it. I always use examples like this to convince my students to not act like this. Please stop it.:angry:
 
oldphart said:
I live in Ohio 6 months of the year. We have open and concealed carry. I carry all the time. I am very pro Second Amendment. In fact I am an NRA pistol instructor and teach the Ohio CHL calss

In the summer I work out in Yellowstone NP and I hike all over the place. I carry when I hike outside the park. This year, because of the law changes, I will be carrying inside the park.

I carry and no one knows it. I pack a full sized 1911 and no one knows it. NO ONE KNOWS IT! NO ONE KNOWS IT!

I'm sorry, but, if you are carrying an exposed AK47 lookalike when you are hiking, you are just trying to force a confrontation. You set out to be confrontational and you got what you wanted. You wanted to be the center of attention and shock people. Actions like this hurt us more than the Brady Anti Gun Freaks do. It makes us all look like lunatics. Every time this happens people start donating to the Brady Bunch and I have to write more checks to the NRA to counter it. I always use examples like this to convince my students to not act like this. Please stop it.:angry:
Click to expand...

You may want to rethink what you wrote here.... you are NOT TALKING TO THE CORRECT PERSON, and this is not the correct thread /subject......
 
Axeanda45 said:
You may want to rethink what you wrote here.... you are NOT TALKING TO THE CORRECT PERSON, and this is not the correct thread /subject......
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Ooops, Sorry. Old people sometimes get confused. I did indeed post this in the wrong thread. I humbly apologize and meant no offense.
 
fine...I forgive you :biggrin: it's not like, uhmmmm, maybe, just maybe I may have kinda made a few THOUSAND of those "mistake thingies" myself.
 
Thanks, Officer, for the reminders.

I'm constantly suprised by some people's disdain for the police in the US. Maybe I have been lucky where I live; our police are polite and generally very professional. I have been arrested overseas (our hotel caught on fire, and "gentle" Carabinieri hauled all the young, male Americans in our group to jail for ARSON!). THAT was a wakeup call. Foreign police can and will do things that would never pass here in the States, at least not where I live.

I do support and stand up for my basic rights against false arrest and interregation, but in most cases there is "no harm/no foul" for just answering "Yes, Officer" or "No, Officer" instead of defiantly answering every question with "How can I help you, Officer" like they show in those crazy YouTube videos.

BTW, I carry 24-7 and I kept my hands on the wheel last time I was caught speeding. :biggrin:
 
Ughh you should try being arrested in Honduras! No, you should not, actually.:no:

I find that carrying makes me a better driver.
 
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