CCW For Military Members on Base

[JCliff]

18 USC chapter 44 %930. DOD facilities are Federal facilities and Federal rules apply. In 31 years of service, I do not recall seeing any military base where CC was permitted. On quite a few bases, you (a civilian or off-duty military) cannot even bring a firearm through the gate. If caught, it will be confiscated and you will be escorted off base, at a minimum, possibly held and charged. I am not aware of a single successful judicial appeal regarding this, and I know weapons are confiscated with some regularity. Military personnel in violation immediately subject to UCMJ. OC was only in accordance with official performance of duty/required training, etc.

 

[Axeanda45]

In my experience (27 yrs) with the US military, it is up to the base commander..... If the commander has no policy, it reverts to the State (possibly a few federal too) laws where the base is located for those assigned there. Not sure about visitors....
When I was active duty and living on base, it depended if I was in housing or the dorm..... dorm=no modern firearms allowed (black powder was ok-really!) housing=no rules, although I do believe that for transport on and off base they needed to be unloaded. We even had trapshooting ranges and hunting was allowed on base in certain areas!

 

[Firefighterchen]

I was wondering why us military members were not allowed to carry concealed, or even keep our own weapons in our dorms while on base. I mean every day when I would go to work, I had to go to the armorey, pick up my M-16, and my M-9, safety check it and load it in front of the armorer. Now if I am trusted to defend the base, why can I not carry my own weapon off duty, much less keep my own weapon in my place of residence? It's like the government trusts non military members more than they do the ones who protect the civilians. Any input?

I'm confused. Some replies say civilians can't carry on base either. If civilians can't carry on base, how are they trusted more than military members?

Military members can still carry off duty off base right?

Finally, shouldn't that mindset be that way anyways? Civilians should be trusted more than the military and government.

 

[Oldgrunt]

18 USC chapter 44 %930. DOD facilities are Federal facilities and Federal rules apply. In 31 years of service, I do not recall seeing any military base where CC was permitted. On quite a few bases, you (a civilian or off-duty military) cannot even bring a firearm through the gate. If caught, it will be confiscated and you will be escorted off base, at a minimum, possibly held and charged. I am not aware of a single successful judicial appeal regarding this, and I know weapons are confiscated with some regularity. Military personnel in violation immediately subject to UCMJ. OC was only in accordance with official performance of duty/required training, etc.

During my entire career in the military I was never at an installation that allowed either concealed or open carry. As much as I like having my weapon with me, I don't think open/concealed carry should be authorized because there would be too many instances where some hothead would start brandishing during an argument with another and then trouble would start. The incident with MAJ Hassan was an isolated incident and, yes, an armed person there could have stopped him. If everyone there had been armed when that incident started, it would have been like a shooting gallery and no telling how many would have been killed. A previous post mentioned keeping your weapon in the barracks, both military and civilian. That would be another catastrophy waiting to happen. Troops today are a reflection of our society and some could have a tendency to commit crimes such as stealing and selling their military weapon or even use it in the commission of a crime either on or off post. As good as our military is today, I wouldn't trust letting every member carry. Carrying in the performance of one's duties (i.e. MPs) is one thing but, in regular day-to-day duties, there is no need for servicemembers to carry. A lot of people will disagree but, different strokes for different folks.

 

[snatale42]

In my experience (27 yrs) with the US military, it is up to the base commander..... If the commander has no policy, it reverts to the State (possibly a few federal too) laws where the base is located for those assigned there. Not sure about visitors...

This would seem to be the case. I'm not in the Military, but shoot on a Base Rifle range from time to time (open to public on Sundays). So their definitely no LAW against it, just policy.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I don't think open/concealed carry should be authorized because there would be too many instances where some hothead would start brandishing during an argument with another and then trouble would start.

Wow. So the same should be applied off base to the general populace then, right? Sounds like an argument straight off an anti-gun group's website....

After all you posted:

Troops today are a reflection of our society

so, then your anti-gun statements should not be limited to just the military and be applied to all in our society then, right? Or is it only you who should be allowed to carry to protect yourself against the rest of us?

It's amazing, whenever someone mentions allowing guns to be carried someplace or in a manner previously prohibited, somebody is going to claim "The blood will run in the streets!"

 

[mappow]

I really though I had posted on this thread. In the 80's stationed in the Tidewater area of Virgina. I was authorized lethal force by my CO. One of twelve out of approx 650 active duty USN at WEPSTA Yorktown, Va. AT that time I was an E5 but had over 6 yrs of service and had to complete on base training prior to the request being sent to the CO. The T.O. was and extreme obsessed T.O. but ensured all that passed his course was fully versed in LEO and other operational requirements. NOT for the faint of heart but hence the training given.
To the OP, I would agree that not every active duty personal is responsible to CC/OC on base. BUT, and I mean BUT, every NCO that can qualify and complete training should be able to CC/OC on post. MOST of the reason why AD personnel can't...........Security has been passed to civilians. DOD has been bought off by the local Senator or Rep.
ARMED FORCES means what..............you're armed. Sweet Jesus, we ain't building rockets here folks!

 

[Oldgrunt]

Wow. So the same should be applied off base to the general populace then, right? Sounds like an argument straight off an anti-gun group's website....

After all you posted:



so, then your anti-gun statements should not be limited to just the military and be applied to all in our society then, right? Or is it only you who should be allowed to carry to protect yourself against the rest of us?

It's amazing, whenever someone mentions allowing guns to be carried someplace or in a manner previously prohibited, somebody is going to claim "The blood will run in the streets!"

I know your stand on carrying weapons and have agreed and disagreed with you on several subjects but this is one which I have strong feelings about. First of all, I am anything but anti-gun but that is generally your comment anytime someone comments on ANY restriction on carrying a weapon. I spent many years in the military WITH troops. One thing I do know is that young troops are capable of doing anything and, given half a chance, generally do. Especially troops in the combat arms, Infantry, Artillery, etc. They are trained very well and are full of pee and vinegar. Living in the barracks, they often have disturbances that lead to some getting hurt. On one occasion I was in an airborne unit billeted next to Marines in Camp Lejune when an altercation broke out between the different services. That fight resulted in bayonets being broken out by both services and, had weapons been authorized for everyday carry, someone could have gotten shot as opposed to being cut. On another occasion, a serious fight between two troops resulted in one man being given a permanent smile after being hit in the mouth with an open entrenching tool. They are young men and one can usually expect that on rare occasions. IF these same troops are allowed to have a weapon in their barracks, who knows what might happen. One serious problem in the military right now is suicide. Keeping their weapon in the barracks can lead to enabling someone who, given a little time, may get over their problem and not kill themself. That is an extreme example but anyone who denies extreme things don't happen is only fooling themself. Given circumstances like mappow mentioned, specialized training for NCOs to carry for operational requirements I will go along with but, for the average service member, I would say no. You can call that anti-gun if you want but I can not go along with your idea of letting everyone carry just for the hell of it. Consequently, we will just have to agree to disagree.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Consequently, we will just have to agree to disagree.

Disarming men and women because they volunteer to serve in the armed forces of the United States..... Yes, we will definitely have to agree to disagree.

And the answer to suicide is not taking away guns. It never has been.

 

[stevefrasier88]

I just got out of the Army and I strongly agree that we soldiers should be allowed to cc on base. I forgot the rules on Ft Hood and cc on base and my weapon was seen by my SGT instead of being a cool guy about the deal he took me straight to my CO. My CO chewed my ass and told me that it was against my general orders to cc on post even though I have a cc permit that is honored by the great state of Texas. Needless to say none of that mattered my CO sent orders up to the Battalion Legal Department to Court Martial me for violating my general orders. I was sent to a Summery Court Martial and spent 45 days in the brigg and had my rank taken from me plus 45 days of 2/3 my pay taken for 45 days as well. When I stood in front of the Military Judge and asked if I thought I was guilty all I had to say was no Sir I do not think I'm guilty of any crime because all I was doing was protecting myself by carrying a weapon just like the 2nd Amendment allows me to do. The judge asked me why I thought I needed protection on a Military base and I informed him that in 2009 a Major thought it was a good idea to kill 13 people on Ft Hood and wound 10 others. Do you think I was justified and wrongly punished? I sure do

 

[Sir Diealotz]

Get banned LOL

 

[no sheep]

As a civilian that works on base, (thanks to all who have served) what I don’t like about no carry on base is I’m unarmed to work and unarmed after work including stops on the way home. I have always said they should at the bare minim have lockers so you can store your gun/check it so you can still be armed everywhere except directly on base. Although I believe If the state trust me enough and everyone on base has a clearance so we should be stand up people why I can not leave a gun in the car?

 

[mappow]

Again people, ARMED Forces means WHAT????? If you're not qualified to OC on base and or CC with authorization then what''s the point. As for the fights, altercations and general release of testosterone (goes for the Gal's as well) This is nothing more the lack of Leadership skills that are not being INSTILLED in the junior ranks. Ya got problems with your people, ya not doing what it takes to lead them. The problem is YOURS to OWN.
ONE of the biggest reasons I got out after 12 in the USN was the lack of leadership due to the influx of the LIBERAL squeeze they were allowing into the service. ALL about management not Leadership in the 80's, late 70's. It's just a wonder more aren't killed by terrorist here in the US.
I feel so strong about this. ARMED FORCES----------HELLO! How the hell are you on ACTIVE Duty that took an oath to "Protect and Defend" if you're unarmed. PLEASE people get this right!

 

[stevefrasier88]

I've learned that there is no such thing as common sense on a Military well anything for that matter

 

[RugerSR40]

UPDATE!!! As a follow-up to my previous posts, here's a link to a good article describing Fort Drum's policies and regulations. It seems they have changed their rules since I left the base. From the article > "Possession of a New York concealed weapon’s license WILL NOT authorize the carrying of a concealed weapon on Fort Drum."

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And here's another one from their website.

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[RugerSR40]

Here is the link to the official regulation change. It is in pdf format and was revised in April 2012.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...xIGACg&usg=AFQjCNHUitJEnSD_jwbfvsa-tZ6rcbSqOw

 

[mappow]

UPDATE!!! As a follow-up to my previous posts, here's a link to a good article describing Fort Drum's policies and regulations. It seems they have changed their rules since I left the base. From the article > "Possession of a New York concealed weapon’s license WILL NOT authorize the carrying of a concealed weapon on Fort Drum."

Link Removed

And here's another one from their website.

Link Removed

Bless their hearts, they are ordering you to register your weapons with the locals. "notify the Jefferson County Sheriff's Department at (315) 786-2711. Advise them of your weapon information (i.e. type, caliber, serial number) and follow their instructions. Until they are properly registered, handguns must be stored in unit arms rooms"
OK, so what I don't understand is that a Federal Authority is ordering you to a State (County) Authority to register a handgun. Something in this is not smelling right. Is owning a handgun in NY a State requirement to register?

 

[nosreme]

Things are only going to get worse for gun-owning military personnel--living on- or off-base/post if the pending Defense Authorization Bill repeals the existing, long-overdue prohibition on commanders questioning their people about whether they own guns. The hook they're using is that it's "necessary to reduce suicides," but in reality it will lead to overbroad questions, record-keeping, "safety" training, and strong hints that "leaders are expected to set a good example by not owning guns."

 

[mappow]

Things are only going to get worse for gun-owning military personnel--living on- or off-base/post if the pending Defense Authorization Bill repeals the existing, long-overdue prohibition on commanders questioning their people about whether they own guns. The hook they're using is that it's "necessary to reduce suicides," but in reality it will lead to overbroad questions, record-keeping, "safety" training, and strong hints that "leaders are expected to set a good example by not owning guns."

Maybe they should start a "Don't Shoot Don't Tell" Policy. You can be Gay and that's OK, but you can't be ARMED in the Armed Forces. *Y%%#$@* Insanity, plain and simple. These people have lost their minds................:help:

 

[RugerSR40]

Bless their hearts, they are ordering you to register your weapons with the locals. "notify the Jefferson County Sheriff's Department at (315) 786-2711. Advise them of your weapon information (i.e. type, caliber, serial number) and follow their instructions. Until they are properly registered, handguns must be stored in unit arms rooms"
OK, so what I don't understand is that a Federal Authority is ordering you to a State (County) Authority to register a handgun. Something in this is not smelling right. Is owning a handgun in NY a State requirement to register?

Yepp, precisely. The reason they put this in there is because NY State requires that you have a permit before you can even own a handgun. It's basically a federal authority telling you to comply with state laws. A lot of individuals who get stationed in NY aren't aware of this and often times bring their handguns into the state without knowing that you need to have a permit first (which is illegal). The permit process is quite long as well so they have a process in which you have to store your pistols in your unit's arms room until it comes through. All pistols in NY are registered with which ever county you live in. However, on base you have to register ALL firearms (handguns and long guns) with the MP's as well.