Being adamant about not providing info. when asked


Here is part two... The police officers side. Again, it's long (48mins) but worth it!
 

kwimby said:
I wouldn't be so proud of that WA state law, if I were you. Looks like it's screwed up enough to let them get away with just about anything they want under whatever pretext they choose.
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Just posting it for education purposes. And it is very limited in scope: ONLY the Washington State Patrol only, no sheriff or municipal police force; only during day light hours using marked vehicles; only for driver's license and equipment check.

Now, if they smell alcohol in the vehicle, or see a baggie of marijuana laying out...sure they can cite you for DUI or the drugs under plain sight search rules. However, this law does not give them the authority to search any part of the vehicle, does not require you to open any compartment to obtain registration or insurance, because the law does not allow them to check for that unless they have actually stopped you for an infraction. The law does not allow them to frisk your person or to even ask about firearms. Although, during one of these stops (which, I have never seen happen), they could ask you to produce your CPL - and if you had it in your possession at the time, you would be required to show it. If you did not have any loaded handguns in the vehicle, or any handguns concealed on your person, you would not be required to be in possession of your CPL, so they could not cite you for anything if you did not have your CPL in your possession.

Do I think this random stop for license check law should exist? Absolutely not. But, unfortunately, it does.
 
maine04619 said:
A lawyer fiend of mine says the ONLY response you should ever give any le is "I want my lawyer".
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And a LEO friend of mine says, "What have you got to hide?" :)

Golden Rule to live by....just becuase you have nothing to hide does not guarantee they won't find something.
 
NavyLCDR said:
Actually, they always have the right to ASK. Anybody has the right to ASK. The question is, what do they do when you refuse? Depending on state law, in most states, they have no authority or right to DEMAND. But you will never know if they will obey the limits of their authority until you say no their request (asking).



Depends on state law. In most states, unless the officer is demanding that you stop, you are free to just ignore them. However, and I will get flamed for this, but I don't care, I will always at least stop for the officer. I don't consider it an intrusion of my rights to stop and ask, "Are you detaining me?" I was approached by officers in a shopping mall. They way it went down I didn't really have time to ask "are you detaining me" because they started the talking. They told me the mall was private property (true), that the mall was posted with no firearms (I found out later, true, in very small type in the middle of a code of conduct sign), but if I would just cover my gun nobody would care. I covered my gun and thanked them and that was the end of it. Unfortunately, what does suck about Washington State law was that after I concealed my gun in front of them, they would have had the legal ability to demand my CPL and I would, by law, have to produce it. Driver's license or ID, no...but CPL, yes. But they never asked for it and I didn't offer.

The officers in the mall are examples of the difference between remaining in the bounds of authority and abusing their authority. They did not do anything that any other Joe Shopper or Susie Cashier could have done. All they did was inform me of mall policy. They didn't even order me or tell me I had to cover my gun, they stated the facts and let me decide what to do.
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With all due respect for your knowlege, Since when does state law trump federal law? Article 6 Supramacy clause.
 
CharlesMorrison said:
Well... Driving is not a right that is protected by the constitution, sorry you just don't get it.
Keep smoking your crack and believe whatever inane junk you wish to.
Thank god you are not a lawyer as you are clueless about what a "Right" is.
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If I am clueless about what rights are, let's go head to head before the supreme court of the United States, SCOTUS, you will lose and I will win, you continue to try to imtimadate me, without any proof of your positition, Yet I give you reference and you do not reference it because you can not repute it, just as those who mindlessly except the word of others and act upon it. Are you upspet, that you are incapable of thinking due to your addiction to the public tit that allows you to exsist. Are you incapabale of independent thought?

Show me where your statement comes from! I am begging you to reference, substantiate your statement! Can you do it? I say no you cannot! prove me wrong! or SHUT YOUR OBAMA LOVING CRACK ADDILED HEAD! It is obivious that any forum that is in any way conservative brings out those who wish to misrepresent the truth. You fit the discription of a bar fly trying to get into the panties of the bar whore who is not paid, but only wants the attention of one for the moment. You lack that of those who made this Nation when it was but a financial slave of another nation. Those that stood up gave you the freedom to be who you have chosen to become.
 
Seeya said:
If I am clueless about what right are let's go head to head before the supreme court of the United States, SCOTUS, you will lose and I will win you continue to try to imtimadate me without any proof of your positition, Yet I give you reference and you do not reference it because you can not repute it, just as those who mindlessly except the word of others and act upon it. Are you upsept that you are incapable of thinking due to your addiction to public the tit that allows you exsist Are you incapabale of independant thought?
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Boy.... You are not right in your head. I can only hope and pray that your medications kick in.
You might need to slow down a little and reevaluate your life.
God bless and God speed to you!
Link Removed
 
CharlesMorrison said:
Boy.... You are not right in your head. I can only hope and pray that your medications kick in.
You might need to slow down a little and reevaluate your life.
God bless and God speed to you!
Link Removed
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Perhaps you do not know your rights, keep drinking the kool-aid. I will continue to fight for my rights, I have no duty to defend yours or protect you from being inslaved.
 
Seeya said:
With all due respect for your knowlege, Since when does state law trump federal law? Article 6 Supramacy clause.
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Since in some cases the SCOTUS has ruled so. Case in point, the FLORIDA AVOCADO GROWERS v. PAUL, 373 U.S. 132 (1963) Court ruled that the USDA could not overrule the State of CA concerning marketing requirements as to oil content.
 
This is what I don't understand. I carry a gun to protect myself from a violent criminal act that a criminal might perpetrate against me. Very few people on this forum have a problem with that. Why is there such disdain for taking precautions to protect myself from a wrongful act that a police officer may take against me?

If a person violates a state or Federal law and victimizes another person in the process, there is little outcry when we call that person a criminal...UNLESS that person happens to be wearing a badge and a uniform when doing so then all sorts of people get upset calling that person a criminal.
 
NavyLCDR said:
This is what I don't understand. I carry a gun to protect myself from a violent criminal act that a criminal might perpetrate against me. Very few people on this forum have a problem with that. Why is there such disdain for taking precautions to protect myself from a wrongful act that a police officer may take against me?

If a person violates a state or Federal law and victimizes another person in the process, there is little outcry when we call that person a criminal...UNLESS that person happens to be wearing a badge and a uniform when doing so then all sorts of people get upset calling that person a criminal.
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It's the way society has been herded. Look at all the exceptions law enforcement get in nearly every single law. "You can't do (x) or you can't own (x)...except for law enforcement." It creeps into all aspects including abusive treatment.

What gets me, is people saying those that do choose to fight this battle are making it harder on "all the gun owners." Do they not see how letting the power go uncontrolled is what's going to bring this country into a police state?

Give them an inch, they will take a mile.
 
NavyLCDR said:
And a LEO friend of mine says, "What have you got to hide?" :) Golden Rule to live by....just becuase you have nothing to hide does not guarantee they won't find something.
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Thus the big problem with le's like you friend! Your friend like so many other LE'S are ignorant and have the thought that anybody they see not wearing a uniform is guilty of something they just have not been caught yet. I have meet le's like this they are asshats who have forgot there oath to uphold the Constitution that CLEARLY says ALL people are INNOCENT until PROVEN GUILTY. Any time you have interaction with a LE who thinks like this your going to end up with issues. Here where I live the police are great guys who pay no attention to a person walking down the street with a gun. However we have the Maine wardens who are interested in one thing only writing tickets and have been caught many times saying publicly that anyone in the Maine woods is doing something illegal they just have not been caught yet! I have had a couple run in's with wardens but I have NEVER got a ticket and I have never been arrested in my life. Why because I never say more then I have to and I NEVER give permission for anything. I am a American it is not my job to prove I am not committing a crime it is the LE's job to PROVE ( while staying within the law ) that I have. You want to consent to whatever some asshat who thinks that invoking your rights means your hiding something that your choice. However it is one that is NOT in your best interest that's why it is the laws set so long ago by people who's government they fled did what they want when they want to the people that had no rights.
 
S&W645 said:
Since in some cases the SCOTUS has ruled so. Case in point, the FLORIDA AVOCADO GROWERS v. PAUL, 373 U.S. 132 (1963) Court ruled that the USDA could not overrule the State of CA concerning marketing requirements as to oil content.
Click to expand...

Thanks I will reshearch that case later.
 
NavyLCDR said:
If a person violates a state or Federal law and victimizes another person in the process, there is little outcry when we call that person a criminal...UNLESS that person happens to be wearing a badge and a uniform when doing so then all sorts of people get upset calling that person a criminal.
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Because there are always a few nihilists, and that's what nihilists do.

For a nihilist, "illegitimate use of police power" is as inconceivable as "dry water".

If a cop did it, it was right.
 
Those of you that assume only make yourselfs the first part of assume. To those of you who doubt that traveling is a right, do the reshearch I have left numerous links thru out the forums and threads on here and others. When you accept the word of another and do not check for yourself, you become clueless as to what is and isn't. Most people only do a light search and are happy thinking they know the truth when in fact the truth is deeper. Here is a letter from a Pennsylvania State House Representative that states that it is a right to travel in a motor vehicle for private purposes in so many words.

http://freedom-school.com/travel/letter-to-judge-on-right-to-travel.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Rohrer

http://educate-yourself.org/lte/drivingprivledgeorright14jan12.shtml
 
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