Being adamant about not providing info. when asked


croute

New member
First, I'd like to say that I TOTALLY understand and agree with the fact that we all have rights and don't want to lose them. However, I keep seeing many posts about how an officer confronts someone open carrying and the person refuses to cooperate. I saw another post about a hotel asking someone to show their CCW permit. Again, I TOTALLY understand that you don't have to and they have no legal grounds, but why wouldn't you cooperate and just get it over with? I'm really curious as to why it's such a big deal to so many of you not to cooperate. It's not like they're going to take your rights away from you and you're not incriminating yourself in any way by cooperating. The situation would be much easier if you just answer the questions and move on. Now, if they won't stop hassling you after you've cooperated, then I could see the point of refusing to cooperate further. So, is there something I'm missing?
 

And here begins another 30 page debate of the same crap spewing from the same mouths on both sides of the argument.

Sometimes it's better to just have your opinion and keep it to yourself rather than start these threads
 
I agree. When you are driving and stopped by a cop he asks for your drivers license, do you give it to him? If a person submits to the cop in all other situations why not when you are carrying? I really do not understand the macho attitude of "I'm standing up for my rights". By causing drama I feel that "Macho Man" is showing that he is not grown up nor has the proper temperate to be carrying a loaded firearm.

It is discussions such as this that we all can learn something. If we keep our opinions to ourselves then we do not advance the cause. If anyone is bored by this discussion then they do not have to read them.

We have not become a socialist country YET. Until that happens then we each can have and state our opinion.
 
If I have broken no laws, I will not give my identification to a stranger. You can call me a "macho man" for sticking to my rights, I'll call you a "sissy" for giving yours up. Sound good?
 
I always cooperate and never have a problem with authority. Its just so much easier and I wind up going my own way with no further problems or bitter taiste in my mouth
 
First, I'd like to say that I TOTALLY understand and agree with the fact that we all have rights and don't want to lose them. However, I keep seeing many posts about how an officer confronts someone open carrying and the person refuses to cooperate. I saw another post about a hotel asking someone to show their CCW permit. Again, I TOTALLY understand that you don't have to and they have no legal grounds, but why wouldn't you cooperate and just get it over with? I'm really curious as to why it's such a big deal to so many of you not to cooperate. It's not like they're going to take your rights away from you and you're not incriminating yourself in any way by cooperating. The situation would be much easier if you just answer the questions and move on. Now, if they won't stop hassling you after you've cooperated, then I could see the point of refusing to cooperate further. So, is there something I'm missing?

Show all of us your Concealed carry license and ID if you feel that way. You have nothing to hide ........... right? There is so little backbone in most men today.
 
The answer is simple. We, as Joe Citizens, are expected to abide by the laws of this country and states. So, why should I not expect government sevants, servants of the people, to abide by the laws just as much as I am expected to?

If I am engaging in no activity raising suspicion of a crime, such as eating dinner in a restaraunt at dinner time, watching a movie in a theater, or shopping in a store and a police officer wishes to engage me in an official manner regarding the lawful carriage of my firearm, then it should be a simple matter for me to answer, "No, sir, I would not like to step outside with you for a minute. I would prefer to finish my activity here in peace, thank you!" And then I would expect the officer to obey the same laws I am oberying and say, "Sorry to bother you, I hope you enjoy the rest of your day."

If I am expected to play by the rules, I don't see what is wrong with expecting police officer to play by the rules.

If I, Joe Citizen, walk up to you and ask who you are, to see your ID and a carry permit just because I know or think you are carrying a gun, are you going to show it to me so that I can write down all of your info and check you out via a private investigative service? If the answer is no, then I must ask WHY NOT? What difference does it make, under the same circumstances, if I happen to be wearing a uniform and a badge at the time and want to check you out using law enforcement resources?

I agree. When you are driving and stopped by a cop he asks for your drivers license, do you give it to him? If a person submits to the cop in all other situations why not when you are carrying?

Is that really the best argument you can come up with? 1. In order for the officer to stop my vehicle, he must have personally seen me commit a traffic offense, have a report from another LEO that I committed a traffic offense that they personally witnessed, or have reasonable suspicion that I have committed a crime. Once condition 1. is met, and I am detained by the LEO then 2. I am required, by law, to produce a driver's license. 100% completely different and irrelevent circumstances.

I really do not understand the macho attitude of "I'm standing up for my rights". By causing drama I feel that "Macho Man" is showing that he is not grown up nor has the proper temperate to be carrying a loaded firearm.

Unfortunately, that is all you are going to see on the internet. Is it fair to judge all persons who politely and quietly stand up for their rights by what you see on the internet? The majority of police officers do understand the limits to their authority. The majority of police officers won't hassle you beyond asking, "Officer are you detaining me? If not, then I would choose to not engage in this investigation" because they know that beyond that any further hassle will open them up to civil liability.

We have not become a socialist country YET. Until that happens then we each can have and state our opinion.

We also don't live in a police state, YET. I see nothing wrong with taking the small measures daily to ensure that we don't evolve into a police state.
 
Most cops are decent human beings imvho, yet there are always going to be a few bad apples within every profession....
With that said, here's how Massad Ayoob teaches that a traffic stop should go down with a legal civilian firearm present;

 
In Tn that cc permit covers open or concealed refuse to submit or give info to a leo one can lose that right,if a business prefers you not open carry while its your right they also have rights called refuse service,and you can spend your dollars elsewhere,rather than argue.
Be a pia one gets treated like one.Continue to stress with angry with a gun in place will get you nowhere other than places you dont wish to be.
Lastly attempt to treat all others like you would want to be treated respect their rights as well,just having a gun strapped on doesnt mean you can trample everyone else.eventually you do so to another who is also carrying.Then two idiots shoot it out.
That video is nice ive watched it prior.
 
Deserteagle: sorry, thought a forum was to discuss things. I didn't know posing a question with 2 different viewpoints was forbidden. I won't do that anymore. SGB: I'd gladly show you my licenses, doesn't bother me a bit. Now, if you want to help me with this question, please let me know why I shouldn't divulge any information. That's the point I don't understand. Is it just not to be a sissy or not have a backbone? Is that all it is? If so, I guess it was just a stupid question. My bad.
 
I did not say giving my ID to a stranger. I said to a "cop". Sounds like you do not like cops. I know many who do not like cops and look for an excuse to get into a confrontation with one. I will not give my ID to just anyone. But when a cop asks for your Drivers License after stopping you do you say no? How do you know that you have broken no laws? Now if it just harassment I will not take that at all. Stick up for your rights but there are ways to do it without causing drama. By causing drama the people around will most likely be turned off by your actions. Then when some idiot will introduces a bill to limit our gun rights they may go along with it.
I wants cops to be able to ask to see ID because there are many out there who are carrying but do not have the right. Does Chicago ring a bell?
 
Deserteagle: sorry, thought a forum was to discuss things. I didn't know posing a question with 2 different viewpoints was forbidden. I won't do that anymore. SGB: I'd gladly show you my licenses, doesn't bother me a bit. Now, if you want to help me with this question, please let me know why I shouldn't divulge any information. That's the point I don't understand. Is it just not to be a sissy or not have a backbone? Is that all it is? If so, I guess it was just a stupid question. My bad.

Be done with you !
Link Removed

You are constantly do this, starting threads to inflame the boards.
 
I did not say giving my ID to a stranger. I said to a "cop". Sounds like you do not like cops. I know many who do not like cops and look for an excuse to get into a confrontation with one. I will not give my ID to just anyone. But when a cop asks for your Drivers License after stopping you do you say no? How do you know that you have broken no laws? Now if it just harassment I will not take that at all. Stick up for your rights but there are ways to do it without causing drama. By causing drama the people around will most likely be turned off by your actions. Then when some idiot will introduces a bill to limit our gun rights they may go along with it.
I wants cops to be able to ask to see ID because there are many out there who are carrying but do not have the right. Does Chicago ring a bell?

Here we go again!
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Drama? After being stopped for DOING NOTHING ILLEGAL OR WRONG?????? Get a clue and grow a pair or kiss your rights goodby.....
 
I did not say giving my ID to a stranger. I said to a "cop". Sounds like you do not like cops. I know many who do not like cops and look for an excuse to get into a confrontation with one. I will not give my ID to just anyone.

First, unless you know them, a "cop" is only a stranger who is wearing a uniform and a badge. I do not know what they will do with my information any more than Joe Citizen. Second, if the police officer is approaching me, when I am not engaging in any activity that is suspicious of a crime, than it is the officer who is looking for an excuse to get into a confrontation with a citizen. No, you won't give your ID to just anyone, but you will give your ID to just anyone, for any reason, if they are wearing the right costume.

But when a cop asks for your Drivers License after stopping you do you say no?

Again with this irrelevent argument. I am required, by law, to show my Driver's License during a traffic stop.

How do you know that you have broken no laws?

I don't. Which is exactly one reason why a person should not offer information to a police officer that is not required. In Washington State, if the police officer is going to issue me a citation for something, then I am required to identify myself. Until that point - not required. If I am breaking a law, then let the officer write me a citation and we will go our respective ways.

Now if it just harassment I will not take that at all. Stick up for your rights but there are ways to do it without causing drama. By causing drama the people around will most likely be turned off by your actions. Then when some idiot will introduces a bill to limit our gun rights they may go along with it.
I wants cops to be able to ask to see ID because there are many out there who are carrying but do not have the right. Does Chicago ring a bell?

Why is it always, in your opinion, Joe Citizen that is causing the drama? If Joe Citizen is only abiding by the law - and the officer is continuing the harassment outside the scope of their authority defined BY LAW, then it is the officer causing the drama, not Joe Citizen. Quit polishing badges and licking boots and put the blame where the blame belongs.
 
With that said, here's how Massad Ayoob teaches that a traffic stop should go down with a legal civilian firearm present;

Amazing how I have been stopped numerous times while carrying a firearm. I have never said anything about the gun or my CPL, the police officer never said anything about a gun or a CPL, I averaged about 50% let off with a warning rate. All encounters were professional, polite and no drama. I won't tell the officer about the cell phone in my pocket, or the gun in my holster. Neither one has any relevence to a traffic stop, unless required by state law. I have since started paying attention to my speed, so I don't get stopped.
 
Deserteagle: sorry, thought a forum was to discuss things. I didn't know posing a question with 2 different viewpoints was forbidden. I won't do that anymore. SGB: I'd gladly show you my licenses, doesn't bother me a bit. Now, if you want to help me with this question, please let me know why I shouldn't divulge any information. That's the point I don't understand. Is it just not to be a sissy or not have a backbone? Is that all it is? If so, I guess it was just a stupid question. My bad.

K, so we are all waiting for a nice photo copied front and back of your ID and permit. Also, when one side starts the discussion with "macho man" name calling, where do you expect it to go?

I did not say giving my ID to a stranger. I said to a "cop". Sounds like you do not like cops. I know many who do not like cops and look for an excuse to get into a confrontation with one. I will not give my ID to just anyone. But when a cop asks for your Drivers License after stopping you do you say no? How do you know that you have broken no laws? Now if it just harassment I will not take that at all. Stick up for your rights but there are ways to do it without causing drama. By causing drama the people around will most likely be turned off by your actions. Then when some idiot will introduces a bill to limit our gun rights they may go along with it.
I wants cops to be able to ask to see ID because there are many out there who are carrying but do not have the right. Does Chicago ring a bell?

Do you now what a stranger is?

stran·ger /ˈstrānjər/
Noun

1. A person whom one does not know or with whom one is not familiar: "she remained a stranger to him".


Police officers are strangers. Pretty simple, why do you have to be so dramatic about it?

Again you bring up the drivers license. I'll try and write this out in a simple to follow formula so you hopefully can follow it:

Doing something illegal + getting caught = Needs ID

Doing something legal + unlawful detainment = No ID

Does that makes sense to you? Saying no to an unlawful ID is not dramatic. Though it does cause some officers to get their panties in a wad..but then again we should be putting blame where it belongs...
 
It's really just a question of whether you have an arsehole attitude or not. If you can't distinguish between a legitimate inquiry and harassment, that's your problem.
1. In order for the officer to stop my vehicle, he must have personally seen me commit a traffic offense,
Ever heard of a random DUI checkpoint? You have no more right to carry a firearm in public than Joe Citizen has to operate a motor vehicle on a public road. Same principle applies. If the authority wants to see your license, you show it.

Enough of the arseholes go about parading their "rights" do be themselves, and eventually the rights will actually dry up and blow away with the political winds.
 

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