I am out in the sticks alot and usually just carry my glock 23 with speer 165 gold dots (human rounds) what kind of ammo is best for wild beast if needed? I'm sure the HP's would work but would fmj's be better? My #1 choice would be the 870 with 00 but its far to heavy to carry for long distance.
bear/cougar
- Thread starter no sheep
- Start date
I think you're fine with that round. Now you won't get that answer from a lot of people but I'll link an article from Buffalo Bore ammo here. For cats (large one's) and black bear, it will work. FMJ would be better for sure. I don't know the Glock numbers, is that a 9mm or .40? You can buy better ammo from Buffalo, but I'd just stick with what you've got.
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=108
Good Luck
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=108
Good Luck
FrontTowardEnemy
Sic Semper Tyrannis
If you are seriously in an area where large, dangerous animals are known to frequent (and not just downtown DC), then I'd strongly suggest you consider getting at least a .44 mag revolver with a 4" barrel and some hot loads. If you're not able to swap out your EDC, then I'd probably stack my mag with a few HPs on top and then FMJs. If you've got a bear coming at you after the first couple HPs, then you'd better be emptying the rest of the mag.
Its a .40 thanks for the link
Why is it the girls carrying Glocks are more enamored with the model number than the caliber? A revolver guy, when asked, will say, "I'm carrying a .44 mag." A Glock guy will say, "I'm carrying a Glock 17." like everyone else should know what that is.
As for the question, cougar and bear are said to be very different targets. Handgun hunters have advised me that "human ammo", as you put it, is fine for cougar but for bear you want something which will break bones. i.e. solid nose.
As for the question, cougar and bear are said to be very different targets. Handgun hunters have advised me that "human ammo", as you put it, is fine for cougar but for bear you want something which will break bones. i.e. solid nose.
I understand but a .44 is heavy, when I climb every ounce counts. There is not a huge population but there is some. We only have black bear and the bears im not worried to much about im worried about the cougars and Coyotes far more. I like the suggestion on stacking the mag, I could do 4 hp's on top then 9 180 grain fmjs on the bottom.
Kalamity023
New member
Look into the 10mm Glock, not sure the model but that will also stop a black bear and be light.
The_Outlaw
~The Dude Abides~
I'm not an avid hunter, but from the little bit of research that I have done it would seem to me that if you shot a large bear with a .40, you'll most likely just piss it off and then become bear food in a real hurry. Buckshot would most likely not help you very much either in the event of a large violent bear encounter.
If you insist on carrying a Glock into the woods then I would probably go with the Glock 20 (10mm) with plenty of extra magazines. The 10mm is the 'absolute minimum' that I would personally want to carry into that sort of situation and I'm not even sure that the 10mm would have enough stopping power for a large pissed off bear to be quite honest.
A 12 gauge loaded with plenty of slugs would be even better imvho.
For an 'up close & personal' situation with the bear allready on top of you, pray that you can even get to your sidearm in time and fire some well placed shots...I would say that even with a much larger caliber sidearm like the .500 S&W Magnum or the .460 S&W Magnum, you would be really screwed before the bear even expired from blood loss.
Just my .02 cents.
"In the meanwhile Glen became separated from me as a small body of water prevented him from coming my way and closer to the boar that was on the kill. The bear started to get up when Glen backtracked and got along side of me. I trained my revolver at the bear and watched Glen as he lay on the ground in a firing position. I nodded my head to him and a second later, the blast of his .500 Smith & Wesson echoed against the distant hillsides. The bear never flinched when the bullet hit him and it continued to get up. Immediately I fired my .500, the bullet striking the great bear center mass and again, it never flinched. We were about 20 yards from it and in a spot where we could be readily seen by the beast. In a blur, we continued firing when our backup with his 45/70 fired twice into the bear on the 7th or 8th shots. When the first 45/70 bullet hit it the bear went down and it got back up, the second hit didn’t seem to faze it. Glen and I advanced and kept firing at the bear. We stopped 15 yards from the wounded brownie and then I heard one of the most terrible sounds I have ever heard in my life come from Glen’s gun. Click. He had run out of ammunition. Immediately I leveled off at the animal and squeezed the trigger, the Smith & Wesson exhaled it’s firebreath . The bear went down and stayed".
"Labored breathing is all that could be heard for that moment, the great bear lay dead. Collecting our wits, we stayed back from the beast just in case it came back alive. It’s a very good idea not to go charging in after a kill, especially with bears. I like to give a minimum of half an hour after the bear goes down before going up to it. Simply said, it’s too dangerous. Glen Sr. said the moment we started firing he shouldered his scoped .338 just in case the bear attacked us. In the end, the bear had been shot 12 times. Two bullets found their mark from the 47/70 rifle and there were 10 slugs from the pair of Smith & Wesson .500’s, all shot at close range. As we spoke, Glen Sr., a registered Master Alaskan guide said he had seen bears die with one shot and others like this big boy that took a barrage of shots before going down. Funny thing".
Link Removed
I like the 10mm round but for now I just want to stay with my .40, its what I shoot the most and feel the best with. Trying to hit a charging cougar with a pistol would be a challenge. Most of the time im with my girlfriend who carrys the glock 27 (.40 for those not in the know) so who's ever not getting attacked would have a possible shot. I have been hiking,climbing,and backpacking for years with no problems i just would like to carry the best round in my .40 if im going to carry it anyways. any job worth doing is worth doing right mentality
The_Outlaw
~The Dude Abides~
"In the meanwhile Glen became separated from me as a small body of water prevented him from coming my way and closer to the boar that was on the kill. The bear started to get up when Glen backtracked and got along side of me. I trained my revolver at the bear and watched Glen as he lay on the ground in a firing position. I nodded my head to him and a second later, the blast of his .500 Smith & Wesson echoed against the distant hillsides. The bear never flinched when the bullet hit him and it continued to get up. Immediately I fired my .500, the bullet striking the great bear center mass and again, it never flinched. We were about 20 yards from it and in a spot where we could be readily seen by the beast. In a blur, we continued firing when our backup with his 45/70 fired twice into the bear on the 7th or 8th shots. When the first 45/70 bullet hit it the bear went down and it got back up, the second hit didn’t seem to faze it. Glen and I advanced and kept firing at the bear. We stopped 15 yards from the wounded brownie and then I heard one of the most terrible sounds I have ever heard in my life come from Glen’s gun. Click. He had run out of ammunition. Immediately I leveled off at the animal and squeezed the trigger, the Smith & Wesson exhaled it’s firebreath . The bear went down and stayed".
"Labored breathing is all that could be heard for that moment, the great bear lay dead. Collecting our wits, we stayed back from the beast just in case it came back alive. It’s a very good idea not to go charging in after a kill, especially with bears. I like to give a minimum of half an hour after the bear goes down before going up to it. Simply said, it’s too dangerous. Glen Sr. said the moment we started firing he shouldered his scoped .338 just in case the bear attacked us. In the end, the bear had been shot 12 times. Two bullets found their mark from the 47/70 rifle and there were 10 slugs from the pair of Smith & Wesson .500’s, all shot at close range. As we spoke, Glen Sr., a registered Master Alaskan guide said he had seen bears die with one shot and others like this big boy that took a barrage of shots before going down. Funny thing".
Link Removed
I may be buing a 10mm in the future but a .308 (dont know whice one yet) and lc9 is next on the list so it will be a bit.
Shoobee
Banned
You are correct, OUTLAW. For a change.
Mountain lions and coyotes are usually about the same size as a dog, and therefore an anti-personnel cartridge like the LEOs carry and regularly shoot dogs with is fine for those two species.
With any bear, black or brown, even emptying the entire magazine of a typical anti-personnel handgun into them anywhere, even their face, is likely just to pizz them off and get your own azz swatted and mauled.
In the case of a bear, black or brown, someone would need at least a 44 magnum, or a 450 marlin, or a 454 casull, or a 500 S&W, or a 45/70. All are hunting guns, which most city folk do not own and have never seen nor even heard of.
Shoobee
Banned
You are correct again, OUTLAW. For a change.
To kill a bear, a body shot is almost irrelevant.
The high powered heavy calibre bullet needs to enter each eye socket, and then ricochet around inside its skull.
It would normally require at least three such carefully aimed shots, to each eye and through the nose or mouth.
And even then they don't always die fast.
It is usually easier to scare away a bear than actually kill it, ironically.
Killing is a last attempt, I would go with the basics before if i had the chance. From my experience you can "work it out" with most animals and you can both go on your way.
Shoobee
Banned
The best defense against any single animal is actually a long stout hiking stick.
Won't help you against a pack of wolves though.
But against a mountain lion or bear, it is a lot better than any firearm.
^gotta love a good stick/rocks .Thanks for all the reply’s, I think I will just carry 4 hp’s and 9 fmj’s per mag, I like this because I would most likely have a issue with a 2 legged creature first so the hp’s would be nice. IF worst case comes I will bag me a coyote or cougar with the .40 and hope the noise and minor pain detours the bear. If rocks don’t work I will be just hoping for the best with the bear. I also always carry mace maybe that could work ? probably would reach for the gun if it got to that point though. Also always have a 250 lumen light with strobe, at night maybe I could confuse it lol.
NotTwoShure
Well-known member
This may be lame and I am not a hunter however, I do hike MY Mountain in the BLM area. I fear people more than animals. I would suggest checking with the Pros on this. The NRA may have a lot of input it is their specialty after all and they have the American Hunter magazine. For me I carry the Kimber 1911 230 gr. JHP. The Glock is for around the town, on the hiway and any other issue requiring multiple target acquisition. I have listened to many folks passing on Urban Legends of bear attacks and Arizona had a least one mauling in a campground but the hard statistics of bear attacks may be in the range of shark attacks. Hey, I think I shall look for these stats and see just for me.
Blackthorn
New member
Carry a magnum based revolver if you are going to: 357, 41, or 44 Magnums. I would certainly question killing a charging bear with any man stopping cartridge. I am sure it can be done like anything else, but would you trust your life to test the theory. There is not enough energy to cause the massive amount of damage needed to stop a bear with a semi-auto based cartridge. The cartridge must be capable of smashing through heavy bone and passing through to the vitals continuing to cause terminal damage. Man stoppers are just that man stoppers. They are not designed like a hunting based bullet. They are meant to fragment on entry to cause as much damage without blowing through endangering others around. Hollow points expend a lot of energy on initial contact but would rapidly loose energy. They could also come apart on contact and only create a flesh wound which may ultimately deter the charge but now leaves a wounded animal that could eventually lead to a deadly unprovoked attack on another hiker. If you are determined to use a semi-auto it is best to kneel infront of the bear as he charges and let him come as close as you dare when you let off the first shot. The slug will travel on a straight line into the vitals and destroy a lung or the heart. This will kill him might not be that second but he will be dead just the same. Brain or neck shots are out of the question unless you are putting the muzzle in his ear as you let off the first round.
I have killed a bears with both a rifle and handgun. I use a .41 Magnum as my carry gun while in the woods. I have killed three bears with this gun. All chest shots with a 210gr Nosler HP and all but one piled up where they stood. My rifle is a 300 Winchester Magnum. Loaded with 180gr Nosler partitions there isn't a bear issue I would be concerned with. Shotguns with buckshot work great along with slugs. I carry a pump shotgun loaded with buckshot while my wife and I pick rasberries in the summertime. Easier to get a decent hit with a load of buckshot at close range than with a slug. Try shooting a watermelon at close range with buckshot. Pretty impressive. Great bear or cat medicine and better designed for charging animals......
As for cats... That is a whole other story. If you stumble across a cat on a trail the better point of valor will be to stand you ground and hope the cat turns and walks away. You will never outdraw a charging cat. He is a determined and skilled predator. He kills for a living and will use every advantage he can get. I have been hunting big game for over thirty years and have only personally seen two cats. I have found sign of them and even had one watching me without me even seeing him. If a cat is going to put a hurt on you he will wait until you are so close you will not even have enough time to react. If you read up on cat attacks 9 times out of 10 the victim never saw the cat until it hit them.
My best advise for those who hike is to make as much noise as possible. Whistle, sing, whatever comes to mind. Most animals don't like that and will move off to avoid you. Best thing to carry is bear spray. Buy the stuff they sell that is capable for use in Alaska. You can spray an animal without harming him or you. This will certainly deter them.
A few years ago I had a sow false charge me twice but she never commited. If I had shot her I would have been in a lot of trouble.
Most wildlife departments will run you though the ringer if you happen to kill a game animal. You had better prove what you said actually happened, which means you had better look like you were in mortal danger. They will treat you pretty badly if the evidence looks thin. Poaching is illegal and you will be considered a poacher first then a victim....
I have killed a bears with both a rifle and handgun. I use a .41 Magnum as my carry gun while in the woods. I have killed three bears with this gun. All chest shots with a 210gr Nosler HP and all but one piled up where they stood. My rifle is a 300 Winchester Magnum. Loaded with 180gr Nosler partitions there isn't a bear issue I would be concerned with. Shotguns with buckshot work great along with slugs. I carry a pump shotgun loaded with buckshot while my wife and I pick rasberries in the summertime. Easier to get a decent hit with a load of buckshot at close range than with a slug. Try shooting a watermelon at close range with buckshot. Pretty impressive. Great bear or cat medicine and better designed for charging animals......
As for cats... That is a whole other story. If you stumble across a cat on a trail the better point of valor will be to stand you ground and hope the cat turns and walks away. You will never outdraw a charging cat. He is a determined and skilled predator. He kills for a living and will use every advantage he can get. I have been hunting big game for over thirty years and have only personally seen two cats. I have found sign of them and even had one watching me without me even seeing him. If a cat is going to put a hurt on you he will wait until you are so close you will not even have enough time to react. If you read up on cat attacks 9 times out of 10 the victim never saw the cat until it hit them.
My best advise for those who hike is to make as much noise as possible. Whistle, sing, whatever comes to mind. Most animals don't like that and will move off to avoid you. Best thing to carry is bear spray. Buy the stuff they sell that is capable for use in Alaska. You can spray an animal without harming him or you. This will certainly deter them.
A few years ago I had a sow false charge me twice but she never commited. If I had shot her I would have been in a lot of trouble.
Most wildlife departments will run you though the ringer if you happen to kill a game animal. You had better prove what you said actually happened, which means you had better look like you were in mortal danger. They will treat you pretty badly if the evidence looks thin. Poaching is illegal and you will be considered a poacher first then a victim....
localgirl
New member
Bear spray and a feisty dog.
If those don't work, go with one of the larger calibers people discussed, but, as they said, don't expect it to be lethal. Don't aim for a bear's head unless you have a side shot and hit the temple area, or go for the heart. Bears are basically tanks, and even a fatal shot can take a significant amount of time to work. Cats are just notoriously hard to kill, but as soon as you can convince them you're not a meal, they'll leave. Not so with a bear.
If those don't work, go with one of the larger calibers people discussed, but, as they said, don't expect it to be lethal. Don't aim for a bear's head unless you have a side shot and hit the temple area, or go for the heart. Bears are basically tanks, and even a fatal shot can take a significant amount of time to work. Cats are just notoriously hard to kill, but as soon as you can convince them you're not a meal, they'll leave. Not so with a bear.
The_Outlaw
~The Dude Abides~
Even a broken clock is right at least two times per day right!? LOL =-)
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