Automatic CCW permits for all military vets with honorable DD214 service?


Treo

Bullet Proof
I'd like to see ALL honorably discharged vets permitted to conceal carry on the basis of their DD214 alone, in ALL states, subject to no mental issues which would make their safe carrying in the general public a problem. After going through two active duty periods, a VERY thorough background check for a TS clearance, and multiple Expert marksmanship ribbons documented on those previously mentioned DD214's, I'm not sure what is left for my county sheriff to discover about me! As vets, we've also already been fingerprinted, so even that is redundant...and yes, I do have my North Carolina resident CCW permit, after jumping all the required hoops to get it.

What say y'all? [Hey, I'm from North Carolina LOL]


How long were you in? I met some serious dirtbags when I was in the Army not sure I'd ever want them carrying a fire arm.
 

Patrick Shearer

RugerCarrier
I strongly agree! I don't know the extensive processes in other states to get a CCW permit but, I'm a VA resident and Virginia, I think has by far some of the easiest gun laws in the country. In my own county, you fill out a one page application, show your DD214 or other gun proficiency training record, get your finger prints on file with the local sheriff's office, pay $50 to the court, and wait 45 days. That simple. When I buy my handguns, the State Police background takes about 15 minutes...tops! There's no waiting. Though, I've heard that if you have a TS it can take a day or so but, I haven't had that problem yet. Bottom line, I agree - all vets that keep their record clean after service should be able to carry without all the hassle. They deserve that much for their service.
 

coachdb18

New member
How long were you in? I met some serious dirtbags when I was in the Army not sure I'd ever want them carrying a fire arm.

I was in the USAF twice, as enlisted (E-4 1971-1975), and commissioned (O-3 1978-1989). As such, I have two DD214's, with an honorable discharge for each period of service. Many states, including my own of North Carolina, are 'shall issue' states. So long as you meet all the requirements, the county sheriff is required to provide a concealed weapon permit. There is not now, nor has there ever been to the best of my ability to determine this, a yes/no checkbox for 'dirtbag'.

What I've been trying to introduce to the discussion is simply the fact that many (perhaps not all) veterans have already met the requirements for CCW, and have that information readily available on their DD214 (ie pistol qualification, background checks and or clearances, fingerprints, citizenship, no history of mental illness... ). As I said before, the facts on my DD214 could have easily substituted for anything my county sheriff wanted to know, or was required by law to ask/investigate to issue my CCW.

Not sure how this idea devolved into an assumption of superiority, elite status, etc, because just like 'dirtbag', there is also no checkbox for 'elite'. It ain't a platinum card, it just says you have jumped all the right hoops, and the sheriff signed off on it. How that requirement is met, I think, leaves a little latitude, and a clean DD214 with the right info should do that.
 

Treo

Bullet Proof
OK I missunderstood. I would agree that if you can present a DD214 stamped "honorable" you should be good. I thought you were talking carte blanche for any vet to carry
 
D

Detroit 45 acp

Guest
Keep dreaming!!!!!! I thank all vets for their Service buy them a drink at the bar even pickup the tab for lunch dinner etc... every person that will CCW should all go through the same practice .......
 

jg1967

New member
Also from NC ... I have to go with the hardliners on this one, I am not sure anybody should be required to jump thru the hoops and get a permit anyway!
 

Lowjiber

New member
I'd like to see ALL honorably discharged vets permitted to conceal carry on the basis of their DD214 alone, in ALL states, subject to no mental issues which would make their safe carrying in the general public a problem.
I must confess that I didn't read all the responses to the original post. However, I'm likely in the minority with my response. I'm a former Army officer with combat experience in Vietnam and worked for the DoD in a Civil Service management position 37 years. I've carried over twenty five years with resident permits in three states.

I'm opposed to the suggestion for two different reasons...

1. Granting such a law would have to be done at the Federal level. The states themselves could not collectively mandate such an agreement. We all know how quickly the anti-second amendment nutcases in Washington can destroy our rights as it stands now. Turning over such "power" to Washington could certainly result in the complete abolishment of our second amendment rights...over night. While the various states are sometimes (maybe most of the time) screwed up in their application of the right-to-bear-arms, at least the average citizen has a chance...as long as we keep the Feds out of it.

2. (Here comes the unpopular reason)
In my military experience (including my career with the DoD), I can truthfully say that there are many veterans with Honorary Discharges that I wouldn't entrust with the "automatic" right to carry a concealed weapon. Current background (et al) checks may be a pain-in-the-butt for us all, but they serve a purpose in my opinion.

(My DD214 is dated October 24, 1968. To imply that that "alone" should be the basis for issuing a CCW permit is outrageous IMHO.)
 

sgtbill

New member
Again it all depends on where you live. Here in Charlotte County Va. if you produce a copy of your DD-214 even without anything on it about weapons training you will get a CCW after a background check. It will cost $50.00 for 5 years and then you just need to renew it again. There is no type of shooting qualification that must be done to get this permit. I was amazed at this when I moved here. I had spent 9 1/2 years in the Military as both a small arms instructor and as a scout sniper. I then spent 25 years in Law Enforcement with over 22 years of that time as a weapons instructor and as the sergeant in charge of the SWAT team sniper unit. I don't know how this county can do this but they do and I don't agree with it or with any type of issuance without showing that you in fact can shoot and understand the laws of the use of deadly force in your area.
Bill
 

G50AE

Well-known member
I have to disagree. There should be no "special" or "elite" classes of legal residents in regards to carrying firearms. That includes presently employed LEO, retired LEO, military members or veterans. One rule should apply to all and all should be required to abide by the same rules. "Shall not be infringed."

BTW, there are thousands of honorably discharged military personnel who have never handled a handgun, and only handled a rifle in boot camp/basic training.

NavyLCDR you are getting good at saying was I was going to say before I get to a particular thread.
 

Lowjiber

New member
Again it all depends on where you live. Here in Charlotte County Va. if you produce a copy of your DD-214 even without anything on it about weapons training you will get a CCW after a background check. It will cost $50.00 for 5 years and then you just need to renew it again. There is no type of shooting qualification that must be done to get this permit.
I moved to Florida in '95 and (at least at that time) similar circumstances were in effect. A DD214 excused you from attending any classes, etc. A fingerprint card, a picture, and $165 (I think) were all that was necessary to obtain a permit after your background check was done.

The unfortunate thing about the above situation is that the new CCW permittee is likely not aware of the particular state laws regarding firearms, etc.
 
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XD40FAN

New member
Im a vet and active in the air national guard. Someone with a honorable discharge doesn't mean they don't have a felony or two that would stop them from obtaining ccl. However the fingerprints could be crossed over. Federal government and state law are two seperate entities if not all of us would get a prescription and smoke out! ie california!
 

rchance

New member
I think your in the ballpark as we should get our permits for free to those who choose to carry. I do think everyone needs some sort of training class to at least cover the basics. I personally think everyone should be able to take a safety class and then be able to carry without a permit.
 

Iteach4U

New member
Hey coach, not all military service members qualify on pistols. That is unless something has changed since my departure in 2005. So automatic woudn't be serving them any justice as you'd be sacrificing training. Besides, they'd still need a course on the laws of the State they would be "permitted" in.

Now I can say that I was allowed to have a letter from my COC to present in Missouri to illustrate that I had a recent handgun course and that was accepted at the time as equivalent training (MP unit). I do like a military exemption of some sort, but if we're making the exception only under the guise of service that's not much different than saying we'll grant you certain rights, but you MUST serve to get them. (see Starship Troopers about being a Citizen for an off the wall example)

We could stretch the legs on this military subject for some time. Things like being denied the ability to purchase a handgun even though at 17 you can be trained by the military to use one and carry it during the course of your duties.
 

mappow

New member
I'd like to see ALL honorably discharged vets permitted to conceal carry on the basis of their DD214 alone, in ALL states, subject to no mental issues which would make their safe carrying in the general public a problem. After going through two active duty periods, a VERY thorough background check for a TS clearance, and multiple Expert marksmanship ribbons documented on those previously mentioned DD214's, I'm not sure what is left for my county sheriff to discover about me! As vets, we've also already been fingerprinted, so even that is redundant...and yes, I do have my North Carolina resident CCW permit, after jumping all the required hoops to get it.

What say y'all? [Hey, I'm from North Carolina LOL]

Agreed but the stipulation that your DD214 shows your handling/Qual of a Firearm. Mine has Expert (45 & .38) listed. I was able to use it in SC/Fla as proof of a Gun Safety course but I do think we should be afforded extra privilege for the Service we performed for our Country. As for the B.I., DOD won't and shouldn't open those files for review by civilian authority.
 

FN1910

New member
I know that I hold a very unpopular opinion on this permit deal but I really don't care about all the handgun training and being able to put 5 in the 10 ring from 25 yards. All I really care is that someone basically know which end of the gun the bullet comes out of and how to shoot it in the general direction of where they are aiming. I was recently helping a young girl shoot a pistol for the first time and when I showed her how to line up the front and rear sights it was like a light came on. Until then she had no idea what those little bumps were for. Now she can easily hit COM at 10' which is probably all she would ever need.

I do care about anyone carrying a gun around with no idea of the laws involving guns expecially someone walking aroung in public. Anyone who carrys a gun either OC or CC needs to know the laws on both the carry and use of a gun and not what they heard from a buddy at the bar last night. If you are in your home or your private property I don't care a whole lot but when you step out into the public it is a different story, I would like for there to be some kind of mandantory training even it if is part of the school curriculum, or a permit system (no cost) before being allowed to carry in public. The training would be on the laws not just involving carrying guns but what happens when you use one. Does a DD214 mean that you know anything about the castle doctrine or stand your ground? How about carrying in restaurants or bars of whether you need to OC or CC. I know some people that are gun "experts" or gun "nuts" for a better term. And some of them I would leave off everything but the "nuts" and wouldn't turn my back on them for 2 seconds it there is a gun around.
 
I Agree and Disagree! First, I agree that some military veterans (I being one of them) that have it on their DD214 that they qualified with a pistol, should yes be exempt from weapons firing portion of any training. But, disagree and believe that they should be required to at least go through a portion of a training class on how to conceal carry and legal portion of any state they plan to get there CCW license in.
Not all military personel qualify with a hand gun! Yes alot qualify with a rifle but that is a different weapon and in the military you never have to conceal it.
As far as law enforcement, yes I believe they should all be exempt. Being a prior police officer of 11 years. I know there is not a state in the United States that does not require training and expect at sometime in his or her career that an officer is going to want to, have to, or need to carry concealed for their and their families protection. Therefore I believe that most officers have the experience and training to carry without going through a class that they have not already gone through.
Once again I have been training police officer, military personel, and civilians for over 15 years on weapons instruction.
Joseph
Chief CCW Instructor
Tri State Self Defense
Link Removed
 

jlutin

New member
Permits for vets could be modeled on the legislation for retired police officers. Individuals who served as military police officers, non-commissioned officers, warrant officers or commissioned officers who have an honorable discharge and who can provide evidence of current training in their home state, who are not otherwise disqualified from possessing a firearm, and have appropriate douments in their possession would be entitled to carry a conceled firearm notwithstanding any state or local law to the contrary. That might have a slim chance of passing and might be a foot in the door for all vets. This would need to be a Federal law.
 

wjh2657

New member
Just what does the pro carry crowd really want? One group wants "Constitutional carry" where everybody, regardless of mental state or criminal record is be able to carry. Another group wants all ex-police and military to be able to carry. Another group wants to go with the current system of permit issue.

We can't have all of these. We can have one and only one. If the state is going to issue permits , then it has to be available to anybody that qualifies and under standard requirements (Age, classes, Background Checks, etc.)

When we start exempting Military and Police, we are issuing to special groups again and we don't need elitism in the HCP process. This has been perverted to only LEOs , Judges and State officials being issued permits in some jurisdictions. Most Military have little knowledge of the State Laws and for that matter, most LEOs are borderline ignorant of most state laws. They know the laws they enforce and little else.

I say this from the perspective of a Retired service member (30 Years AD) and some LEO experience.

Pick an equitable and constitutional (State) system for everybody and administer it fairly. When we CC we do it as civilians and under civilian law.
 

NavyLCDR

New member
I'm still trying to find the stipulation in the 2nd Amendment that it only applies to those with "adequate" training.
 

wjh2657

New member
It also says nothing about criminal record or mental health state. Not a criticism, just a statement of fact.
I stated the criteria from the viewpoint of the current court opinion that it is a state function. I could endorse the Second Amendment stance if supported by the courts. However, I would then have to strongly advocate for the "no restrictions at all" system. If we decide to follow a very strict adherence to the amendment, then everybody, and I mean everybody, has to be allowed to carry. As soon as you make special deviations you leave the letter of the amendment.
 

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