Another SC Home Defense Shooting


Hey oldbanjo: I guess when you are living on the "frontiier" or out in the country where LEOs are far and few between, I can understand having to be proactive on almost everything. Being a city boy and now living in a town where LEOs and police dept are very proactive, I can rely on them as part of an equation to ensure my safety and the security of my valuables when my presumption of imminent danger is not direct and we are only talking about "stuff". Let me reiterate---I would love nothing better than to hurt someone real bad if they decide to interfere in my life and take anything from me but I try my darndest to curb my anger and disgust and have promised myself that my firearms and CCW are only for imminent danger of death or great bodily injury and nothing else, and I will not go out of my way to put myself in that position for any reason other than to assist my family and friends or even someone else--- god forbid it appears that they may be in danger of losing their life or facing grave bodily injury.
 

This guy is on shaky ground since the kid did not have a weapon -the guy does not have to punish failure to heed instruction with death - unless the kid comes at him or shows some weapon.

He got off because hes an old man. A woman would also be more likely to get away with it.

A young man - especially if he is bigger than the kids would have faced a lot more scrutiny since the kid - unarmed would not be an obvious lethal threat to a young guy - especially if the guy holding the gun is bigger and looks like he could have beat the kid up anyway. a prosecutor or jury might feeel that he gun was not needed and therefore excessive






kelcarry said:
A 19 year old was "rummaging" around a pickup truck in someone's yard in the middle of the night with the apparent iintention to find some treasure, if not the truck itself. The older gentleman in the home heard noises, grabbed his gun and before calling 911, went outside to confront the 19 year old. He ordered him to turn around and face him and told him to take his hands out of his pockets as he stood there. The 19 year old hesitated and then took one hand out and started to take the other hand out, at which point the old man fired and hit the 19 year old twice--serious injuries but not life threatening; the old man THEN called 911. The solicitor refused to indict and no further legal action has or was taken concerning the old man's actions. In my heart I immensely enjoy everything the old man did. In my mind, however, I find this case a bit troubling. I understand "castle doctrine" etc, but no 911, the seemingly cavalier attitude of priority of property over life, and a confrontation first by the old man who truly initiated his apparent "imminent dange". Any comments?
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Hey Smokey: Could not agree with you more. I just cannot understand how you can look the other way on a shooting like the one described by me in the initiation of this thread. The old guy did not even bother to call 911--then again this is South Carolina--nough said. Many argue that their stuff was accumulated by hard work etc etc and they will be damned if someone is going to take it away----the law is clear--imminent danger of death or great bodily injury--says nothing about stuff and says nothing about instigating the confrontation because of stuff unless it involves a forcible entry into your home--not just onto your property. Make no mistake about it--as far as I am concerned if you try to steal my stuff I would like nothing better than to "prevent" you from doing so now or ever again--but I also believe having a firearm comes with responsibility to obey the laws that go with it and not interpret them as you see fit. You do not like the way the law is written than get on your horsey and try to change the law but for you to interpret as you see fit is asking for trouble. I guess the next step for some involves not liking the way your neighbor takes out his trash or not liking someone who says something to you or wife as they walk by you---just interpret the law your way, pull out the old 45, and bang away.
 
Tough times

I think tough times changes peoples way of thinking. The people that don't have anything think people that have something should share. If there lazy its one thing, they are takeing the easy way out. I don't know I would shoot someone if they were hungry. But how do you know?
 
I've had a gun on me or real close sense the mid 60's, I have yet, had to shoot anyone. A CWP just makes it legal to carry. For me nothing else has changed. I have always lived in the country areas, near woods and have always had my own shooting range. In another City I had all wiring stolen out of a Double Wide and Garage, two farm tractors, boat motor and every thing stole. The Law did nothing, even with pictures and a witness, Cost me 50 or 60 thousand dollars. If I had been there someone would be dead. It won't happen here you can bet your life on that.
 
Hey oldbanjo: That is why you get insurance. It is a heck of a lot cheaper than the defense attorney, the civil judgement taking the rest of your assets, and the years in jail that you may very well be spending knowiing that at least the slime did not get your stuff. Sounds like a great tradeoff. When you were in nowhereland you may have gotten away with this but if you do not live there anymore, witnesses and more LEOs will find out the truth, which may not come out well for you. All I know is I pay my insurance, will eventually get a check and have a nice day. I absolutely understand how you feel and would like nothing better than to make sure a thief never robs again but it just is not worth it IMO. Now if he forcibly enters my house--we are in total agreement in South Carolina-----and legal.
 
It is very difficult to put myself in the shoes of the Older Gent with his truck! ( I am 75, sat here on my Lap Top at 3-36 AM!) as I have nothing outside of my 3 walls, for anything to take. I am the end unit of 4 town houses, my Garage houses my Jeep, indoors.

I am sat here in my heavy duty (as my wife calls my winter dressing gown) upstairs, all doors locked, but not a difficult house to break in. The 9mm Glock 19 is sitting in said dressing gown pocket, if in bed, next to me on bedside hutch, if up, on me.

If in a rural setting, and having observed a person messing around an outside vehicle, owned by yours truly?

My next move would be too exit by a side entrance, lock door behind me, Glock in one hand, flash light in the other, electronic ear muffs on my head. These handy gadgets enhance sound, and shut down on the firing of shot(s) at this time no real plan would be in my mind, except for checking who is out side, very slow, and careful .

Having dealt with teens all my life, including two of my own, I would deal with this one, if he turned out to be a single one. Hard to be much of a threat, hit in the eyes with my big flash light. Held way out to my left.

As we say in Liverpool, I would be dealing from a "Position of Strength" any further action on my part would depend of the actions of my youthful chancer!
 
Hey Scouse: You say "position of strength". I say "man has to know his limitations" and if there is one person out there, there may 2 or 3 watching. Granted most are amateurs and stupid ones at that but for the sake of stuff I am not going to die if my "position of strength" is horribly compromised.
 
I can't believe that this "STUFF" some people are trying to steal is so insuffinicant to some on this thread because you say it's insured. "Don't worry about it".
This stuff is the fruits of my labor. This stuff I earned was through my continuing strive to provide for myself and family though countless years of effort by no one but me. I also have to labor even more now to buy insurance in case this stuff is stolen. JUST so I can eat the thousand dollar deductable that I will never see again. PROPERTY RIGHTS are fundamentally guaranteed in this Country. IF some of you want to give away those RIGHTS that is totally up to you. BUT DON'T TREAD ON MY RIGHTS. This passive outlook some of you have on this thread aides and abets the continued premise that promotes the Gov't to take the fruits of your labor. You don't care that a thief takes your "STUFF" why should you care if the Gov't takes it either.
Sorry Gents and Ladies and those of you in between, BUT I will not stand by and watch my "STUFF" stole, confiscated or possessed by another without a fight. Unless I expressly give permission to possess my property, you better watch out around me and my "STUFF". MY stuff is protected by me, remember, the one who earned it!!!!!!
 
kelcarry said:
Hey Scouse: You say "position of strength". I say "man has to know his limitations" and if there is one person out there, there may 2 or 3 watching. Granted most are amateurs and stupid ones at that but for the sake of stuff I am not going to die if my "position of strength" is horribly compromised.
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Kelcarry,

My last post was just an exercise, I have nothing outside my home to steal. Where I live, Orange County arrive real quick when called, so as I have said just, an exercise.

But having expressed my opinion, times they are getting tougher!
 
Hey Scouse: Seems like everyone has their priorities. I have no problem with mappow going outside his house and blasting away if he sees someone running off with his lawnmower--I wish I could do the same but I understand the limitations of the law in SC and shooting someone outside my house over stuff is not part of the law IMO--it could be depending on how a prosecutor etc feels about it (sort of like the original thread's case) but that is not a guarantee that you will not be prosecuted, particularly if you end up killing someone.I also understand my own limits and the possibility that the "other guy" is a lot better at this and better prepared than I and to die over a lawnmower (me or him) is ridiculous as far as I am concerned--again, if it keeps mappow secure, happy and satisfied--great--all the more power to him but if he cannot understand what I am saying without an angry retort, I can only shrug and and shake my head. Lets face it, LEOs exist to investigate, not to protect--they are minutes away but my firearm is less than a second away--I will use it to protect myself and family against imminent danger according to the law, but not use it over a lawnmower or "stuff", like mappow so eloquently endorses. I sincerely wish you well and understand what you are saying mappow but I happen to sincerely disagree with you.
 
kelcarry said:
Hey Scouse: Seems like everyone has their priorities. I have no problem with mappow going outside his house and blasting away if he sees someone running off with his lawnmower

Never posted anything like that
" but if he cannot understand what I am saying without an angry retort"

What did I post that sounded angry? Merely stated that some on this thread are willing to let your "STUFF" be stolen without any intervention on your part. That kind of thinking has perpetuated the erosion of property rights and has abetted further stealing of other property.

"but not use it over a lawnmower or "stuff", like mappow so eloquently endorses". .
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Again, still don't know what you have against Lawnmowers. Unfortunately the 4 other posts on this thread seems to evaded you as well with my meaning. Probably my fault for not being clearer in my writing.
 
hey mappow: Hopefully we are all on the same side in this forum. I apologize for any upsetting comments and certainly understand members who have worked hard for their possessions and are not going to stand by while some slime just helps himself. As I have said, I also understand (I believe) the law as it is currently written and my take is my firearm only comes out based on the words written in the law. In South Carolina, castle doctrine tells me that anyone who enters my occupied house is in a heap of trouble and may never leave my house the way they came in; likewise if I am in my car and they attempt entry. Outside of those situations, everything becomes a bit more muddy in interpretation (unless they are armed) and more difficult for me to essentially elevate the situation to the need for my firearm by confronting someone who may be better at this than I am. Hopefully none of us will have to deal with such decisions and have a CCW only because we can. Peace my fellow forum member and god bless. PS: Most of my property is pine straw and plants--no need for a lawnmower.
 
There is no law that says you have to call 911! Calling 911 just helps your case in the event of a shooting.

If bg does not leave or comply, with you pointing a gun at him, that is enough to convince me that he is a threat.
 
Hey ed: Pardon me for getting a bit angry but don't you think that basic common sense would have you think about calling 911 before you go outside, confront someone, and maybe shoot them or kill them? Of course it is not the law to have to call 911 or anyone, but I guess your answer to my question is a big fat no and all I can do is disagree with you, shake my head, and end this with a "have a nice day"---I surely wish you well and hope your words never have to come to fruition in actions. If you live in a remote area I can understand but even then the phone call gives you a moment to get your head in order before you lead Pickett's charge to immortality, especially if the perp or perps are better at this than you are.
 
kelcarry said:
... gives you a moment to get your head in order before you lead Pickett's charge to immortality, especially if the perp or perps are better at this than you are.
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Based purely on the apparent disposition of some members here with the "shoot first, ask questions later mindset," it would seem perfectly reasonable for me to believe this would in fact be the case in most instances. :rolleyes:

Maybe better to just let the Darwin awards nominees get their bids in. :wink:
 
I didn't say you shouldn't call, I said you don't have to.

How long is it going to take for the police to arrive? 10min.,20min. 0r an hour?

If your going to protect your property, your going to have to cofront him, or just sit at your window and let the bg do what ever he wants and hope the police can find enough evidence to firgure out who he is.

Anybody that does not comply when a gun is pointed at them is up to something and that something is not going to be good.
 
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