Am I anti gun if I choose not to OC?

[Saltcreek]

Having carried daily for decades on and off the job, I have a certain perspective. I am not against OC if legal there. However I consider it tacticaly very foolish. CC has an element of surprise. Why would you want to announce to a bad guy which person he has to kill first. He may see you before you see him. Self defense is being prepared without waving a red flag in the room yelling "pick me, I'm ready"! Many times, those who stand on a soapbox and scream "it's my right", aren't really concerned with the right to carry openly, but actually swaggering around to show they have bigger balls. When out and about, and walking into unknown situations, I don't want a bad guy knowing I have a gun until I am ready to use it! This of couse does not apply to hunting or wandering in the woods which are different.

 

[walt629]

but for the most part should it not be how you carry, but that you carry?

That about hits the nail on the head!

I am a gun owner. I believe that as Americans we have a right to gun ownership and carry. The question is in this thread title and is very simple.: Am I anti gun if I choose not to carry, either openly or concealed? Yes or no.

Short answer, If you are not anti 2A and believe that everyone has the right to make up their own mind, No you are not anti-gun if you choose to NOT carry.

 

[Firefighterchen]

Having carried daily for decades on and off the job, I have a certain perspective. I am not against OC if legal there. However I consider it tacticaly very foolish. CC has an element of surprise. Why would you want to announce to a bad guy which person he has to kill first. He may see you before you see him. Self defense is being prepared without waving a red flag in the room yelling "pick me, I'm ready"! Many times, those who stand on a soapbox and scream "it's my right", aren't really concerned with the right to carry openly, but actually swaggering around to show they have bigger balls. When out and about, and walking into unknown situations, I don't want a bad guy knowing I have a gun until I am ready to use it! This of couse does not apply to hunting or wandering in the woods which are different.

When you label open carriers fools or swaggering around to show big balls, you are anti OC. When you spread unsubstantiated fear mongering (ie: you will be picked first), you are anti OC.

I can't say, "I'm not a sexist...but females are dumber, weaker, and should do whatever a man says." Sorry, doesn't work like that.

 

[Bikenut]

Having carried daily for decades on and off the job, I have a certain perspective. I am not against OC if legal there. However I consider it tacticaly very foolish. CC has an element of surprise. Why would you want to announce to a bad guy which person he has to kill first. He may see you before you see him. Self defense is being prepared without waving a red flag in the room yelling "pick me, I'm ready"! Many times, those who stand on a soapbox and scream "it's my right", aren't really concerned with the right to carry openly, but actually swaggering around to show they have bigger balls. When out and about, and walking into unknown situations, I don't want a bad guy knowing I have a gun until I am ready to use it! This of couse does not apply to hunting or wandering in the woods which are different.

The "element of surprise" is an offensive tactic that favors the attacker... for the defender the myth of the "element of surprise" is nothing more than desperately trying to catch up with the actions of the attacker who used... "the element of surprise" .... as part of his plan to "surprise" his victim by attacking.

As for whipping out the super Ninja magical mystical "element of surprise" on some bad guy... and he sees the gun and stops the attack... what really happened is when the gun came out from being hidden it became .... in plain sight and openly visible... and it wasn't the hidden super secret "element of surprise" that stopped the attack but it was a gun in plain sight right out there where it could be seen.. just like open carry puts the gun in plain sight so the bad guy can see it BEFORE deciding to attack.

Now... as for OC showing the bad guy which one to shoot first... please, pretty please, provide cites and/or links to actual incidents where this has happened to a non LE person open carrying.

Bear in mind that people have been open carrying in States like Arizona for.... decades... representing I don't know how many thousands of OC hours.... so if there is any truth to the myth of OC'ers telling the bad guys who to take out first it should be very easy to come up with several actual factual incidents where this has really happened.

By the way.... what is different about wandering around in the woods that makes open carry more OK than wandering around in the city? Bad guys are in the woods too. And the advantages of a faster draw with OC against an attacking bear works equally as well against an attacking bad guy.

About "tactics".... employing the deterrent value that OC affords when the bad guy sees you first IS a tactic of sending the message of being a hard target instead of being a defenseless victim. And.. to a bad guy a CC'er looks exactly like all the other people in a crowd... just another defenseless victim.

Now about folks trying to show how big their balls are with OC.... I'm sure there are some who do that just like there are some CC'ers who skulk around hoping a bad guy will attack so they will have the opportunity to rush to the aid of the innocent by whipping out their super secret ninja sheepdog whup ass "element of surprise" all over some bad guy to the applause and undying gratitude of all those "sheep" he saved. And all that is necessary is to read the posts of some OC'ers... and some CC'ers to know that what I just said is true.

But neither the jerk OC'er nor the jerk CC'er negates the advantages of OC... or the advantages of CC... NOR is OC better than CC... or CC better than OC... both have their advantages and uses. But here is the part most folks ignore... Both OC and CC also have their disadvantages.

 

[Deserteagle]

Dan,
The hardcore open carriers will not tell you that you are anti-gun for not open carrying like them, they will just imply it.

Unless you vote for anti-gun legislation, give money to the Brady Bunch, or say things like "Guns are violent", then you are not anti-gun.

Edit: For the record, I OC and CC. I just do not believe one means you are more pro-gun than the other.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Danmc and Saltcreek remind me a lot of these guys:

They repeat the same old tired arguments over and over again, contribute next to nothing of value.....but good for a few laughs.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Having carried daily for decades on and off the job, I have a certain perspective. I am not against OC if legal there. However I consider it tacticaly very foolish. CC has an element of surprise. Why would you want to announce to a bad guy which person he has to kill first. He may see you before you see him. Self defense is being prepared without waving a red flag in the room yelling "pick me, I'm ready"! Many times, those who stand on a soapbox and scream "it's my right", aren't really concerned with the right to carry openly, but actually swaggering around to show they have bigger balls. When out and about, and walking into unknown situations, I don't want a bad guy knowing I have a gun until I am ready to use it! This of couse does not apply to hunting or wandering in the woods which are different.

So, you have real word evidence of your theories? Examples that show they are true? Nope. Just chalk on the chalkboard.

 

[jahwarrior72]

The "element of surprise" is an offensive tactic that favors the attacker... for the defender the myth of the "element of surprise" is nothing more than desperately trying to catch up with the actions of the attacker who used... "the element of surprise" .... as part of his plan to "surprise" his victim by attacking.

As for whipping out the super Ninja magical mystical "element of surprise" on some bad guy... and he sees the gun and stops the attack... what really happened is when the gun came out from being hidden it became .... in plain sight and openly visible... and it wasn't the hidden super secret "element of surprise" that stopped the attack but it was a gun in plain sight right out there where it could be seen.. just like open carry puts the gun in plain sight so the bad guy can see it BEFORE deciding to attack.

Now... as for OC showing the bad guy which one to shoot first... please, pretty please, provide cites and/or links to actual incidents where this has happened to a non LE person open carrying.

Bear in mind that people have been open carrying in States like Arizona for.... decades... representing I don't know how many thousands of OC hours.... so if there is any truth to the myth of OC'ers telling the bad guys who to take out first it should be very easy to come up with several actual factual incidents where this has really happened.

By the way.... what is different about wandering around in the woods that makes open carry more OK than wandering around in the city? Bad guys are in the woods too. And the advantages of a faster draw with OC against an attacking bear works equally as well against an attacking bad guy.

About "tactics".... employing the deterrent value that OC affords when the bad guy sees you first IS a tactic of sending the message of being a hard target instead of being a defenseless victim. And.. to a bad guy a CC'er looks exactly like all the other people in a crowd... just another defenseless victim.

Now about folks trying to show how big their balls are with OC.... I'm sure there are some who do that just like there are some CC'ers who skulk around hoping a bad guy will attack so they will have the opportunity to rush to the aid of the innocent by whipping out their super secret ninja sheepdog whup ass "element of surprise" all over some bad guy to the applause and undying gratitude of all those "sheep" he saved. And all that is necessary is to read the posts of some OC'ers... and some CC'ers to know that what I just said is true.

But neither the jerk OC'er nor the jerk CC'er negates the advantages of OC... or the advantages of CC... NOR is OC better than CC... or CC better than OC... both have their advantages and uses. But here is the part most folks ignore... Both OC and CC also have their disadvantages.

For the sake of transparency:

Link Removed

And...

So, yes, it can happen, but it's still rare.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Of course in the case of the armed robbery in Wisconsin there is absolutely no evidence the openly carried gun was any factor at all, only more chalk on the board theories.

 

[Danmc]

The key is support. If you support both CC/OC, you are not anti CC/OC nor anti gun, no matter what method of carry you choose.

And yes, I live near the tri cities.

This is what I find interesting. Yes, I came on here in an OC bashing frame of mind with one of my earlier threads. And I got flamed a bit for it, and still do, and I can't blame you all for it. But not one single person, especially those who are local, has ever invited me to an OC meeting to explain to me and try to educate me on OC and the 2A, as most of you claim to do by OC'ing, educating people. You all talk about it here on a forum, which is great, we all have something in common...guns. But not one single invitation. Not one person has said, "Hey Dan, we are having an OC meeting, why don't you attend so that you can see what it's all about". So where is this so called support?

 

[Treo]

I am a gun owner. I believe that as Americans we have a right to gun ownership and carry. The question is in this thread title and is very simple.: Am I anti gun if I choose not to carry, either openly or concealed? Yes or no.

No, you're anti gun because you say anyone that chooses to OC is nutty

 

[NavyLCDR]

But not one single invitation. Not one person has said, "Hey Dan, we are having an OC meeting, why don't you attend so that you can see what it's all about". So where is this so called support?

Come around the Stanwood or Whidbey Island area of Washington State. I will buy your lunch/dinner. And it will be of great benefit to you because we know that if you are with me when the robbery occurs they will shoot me first and give you more opportunity to surprise them! I would think you guys would want to encourage us to open carry.

 

[Tucker's Mom]

I OC when I have the AK47 in my hand. If I CC that I will be walking weird like a zombie. :sarcastic:

 

[Bikenut]

This is what I find interesting. Yes, I came on here in an OC bashing frame of mind with one of my earlier threads. And I got flamed a bit for it, and still do, and I can't blame you all for it. But not one single person, especially those who are local, has ever invited me to an OC meeting to explain to me and try to educate me on OC and the 2A, as most of you claim to do by OC'ing, educating people. You all talk about it here on a forum, which is great, we all have something in common...guns. But not one single invitation. Not one person has said, "Hey Dan, we are having an OC meeting, why don't you attend so that you can see what it's all about". So where is this so called support?

I just sent you a PM. Perhaps that will help.

Although there are seminars/dinners/picnics/outings most educating the OC'ers do is on a one by one basis when folks come up and ask about it. I know I've spoken with people at dinners/picnics/council meetings/handed out many information packets/answered many questions in stores/parks/on the street/even bathrooms (have fun with that one!)/restaurants/gas stations... in short... where ever I go and folks ask I try to fill them in on what OC is, and even what it isn't.

But... if folks don't ask then I don't know they are interested in learning more.

 

[Danmc]

No, you're anti gun because you say anyone that chooses to OC is nutty

It's not the gun I was referring to.

 

[NavyLCDR]

It's not the gun I was referring to.

No, you just refer to people exercising their 2nd Amendment rights to carry their guns in a lawful manner how they choose to. Like the people who say they are not anti-gun because they have no problems with people who keep guns in their homes, unloaded and locked in safes, with trigger locks installed and with the ammo locked in separate containers. For the sake of the children, of course. No, that's not being anti-gun at all. Someone calls you a vigilante with a desire to be judge, jury and executioner, with a super hero complex wanting to single handedly purge the world of evil criminals because you choose to carry a concealed gun hoping the criminal will attack you so you get the chance to whip out your "element of surprise" and blow them away, would that make them anti-gun? Of course not.

 

[Deserteagle]

Like the people who say they are not anti-gun because they have no problems with people who keep guns in their homes, unloaded and locked in safes, with trigger locks installed and with the ammo locked in separate containers. For the sake of the children, of course.

Sidetrack here- Although I've always been annoyed by getting a stupid gun lock and pamphlet on child safety with every gun purchase, I have found to like these free locks for other reasons. They can be used as bike locks or a lock for the gym locker. Guess those liberals are good for something at least.

 

[Austin]

As long as you respect the rights of others to carry, whichever way they choose to and understand that it is the right of every citizen to do so I would say no, you are not anti gun.

+1
I agree with this

 

[Firefighterchen]

The key is support. If you support both CC/OC, you are not anti CC/OC nor anti gun, no matter what method of carry you choose.

And yes, I live near the tri cities.

This is what I find interesting. Yes, I came on here in an OC bashing frame of mind with one of my earlier threads. And I got flamed a bit for it, and still do, and I can't blame you all for it. But not one single person, especially those who are local, has ever invited me to an OC meeting to explain to me and try to educate me on OC and the 2A, as most of you claim to do by OC'ing, educating people. You all talk about it here on a forum, which is great, we all have something in common...guns. But not one single invitation. Not one person has said, "Hey Dan, we are having an OC meeting, why don't you attend so that you can see what it's all about". So where is this so called support?

You don't need to be invited to support a cause. Support is an action you need to find in yourself. The first times I met up with people, it was my own motivation, and my own actions, that went out and found like minded individuals, set up a time with everyone, and then went out and supported the OC cause. Blaming others, that they didn't invite you to support the cause, is just laziness. I did not know you lived in the Tri-City area, I do not frequent many of the members profile/info page, and so unless YOU come here and tell me that you are interested in a meeting and live in the same area, I would most likely not know. The only exception to this, is if this was posted in the Washington forum, instead of the general firearms forum. I also don't use this site to create OC meetings, I use the opencarry.org website for that purpose.

Like I said in the other thread, it's time to grow up, and make decisions and act like an adult. Adults do not need permission or invitations for everything they do.

 

[Firefighterchen]

Like the people who say they are not anti-gun because they have no problems with people who keep guns in their homes, unloaded and locked in safes, with trigger locks installed and with the ammo locked in separate containers. For the sake of the children, of course.

Sidetrack here- Although I've always been annoyed by getting a stupid gun lock and pamphlet on child safety with every gun purchase, I have found to like these free locks for other reasons. They can be used as bike locks or a lock for the gym locker. Guess those liberals are good for something at least.

Until someone sees the lock that is advertising you own guns, and now follows you home or breaks into your locker looking for guns...because you know that happens all the time when you advertise you are pro-gun *SARCASM FOR ALL THOSE THAT FEEL WEARING A GLOCK TSHIRT OR HAVING A 2A BUMPER STICKER WILL GET YOU ROBBED*