Blueshell
Banned
Yup. The property owner can get but-hurt all s/he wants, I'm not disarming.
If they don't like it then they can either post security or move to Canada.
Do you still conceal carry into posted "No Carry" businesses?
- Thread starter HappeScrapn
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If they don't like it then they can either post security or move to Canada.
Blueshell
Banned
Fvck your property rights.
You own nothing. Neither do I. We can't take things with us when we die. We are temporeraly managing these things for God. That's it. We own nothing.
The only right anyone actualy has is the right to determine their outlook, their mindset. Humans have no other right; not to property, not to be armed, not to speach, nothing.
We own nothing and we have no real rights. All that matters is what we can do, and what we choose to do.
If you post a sign but let just anyone in, your sign is speach, not property control, and I am not preventing you from posting your sign.
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Bikenut
Guest
Incorrect. Not everyone is invited in. Only those who agree to abide by the property owner's rules/policies are invited in. Those who do not abide by the property owner's rules/policies are doing something wrong (trespassing) when they come in anyway.
But it is painfully obvious some folks consider their shopping convenience more important than the rights of others.
corneileous
Active member
Do you still conceal carry into posted "No Carry" businesses?
Not all rights, just that specific one. You know, the one that gets people killed. What's painfully obvious to me is the level of defense and perseverance coming out of you that you are defending this right like it is the right of all rights, ever in the history of rights. I mean damn, I might as well be trying to take away the guy's birthday away, right?...lol. That's how you're treating it.
But how about this for a novel idea. How 'bout you just worry about you and I'll worry 'bout me? Sound good?
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They may not be invited in but there ain't nobody stopping them. They ain't gonna stop themselves.
Blah, blah, blah, trespassing. Give it a rest man. Until they are going to be screened before entering, EVERYONE IS BEING LET IN! NOBODY IS STOPPING THEM! STOP TRYING TO TURN THIS INTO A MENTAL THING!!Why can't you understand that instead of continually and painfully arguing a useless point?? Are you having fun, or something?
Not all rights, just that specific one. You know, the one that gets people killed. What's painfully obvious to me is the level of defense and perseverance coming out of you that you are defending this right like it is the right of all rights, ever in the history of rights. I mean damn, I might as well be trying to take away the guy's birthday away, right?...lol. That's how you're treating it.
But how about this for a novel idea. How 'bout you just worry about you and I'll worry 'bout me? Sound good?
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Blueshell
Banned
He doesn't even own property. Lame troll is lame.
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Bikenut
Guest
Apparently some folks don't have the integrity to stop themselves and don't care about the hypocrisy of wanting their right to bear arms be respected while disrespecting the property rights of others.
Why is it necessary for someone else to stop others from ... sneaking... their gun in (trespassing)? Again it is a matter of integrity and hypocrisy.
Not all rights but just that specific one? So you are picking and choosing which rights are important? Isn't that exactly what the anti gunners do? You know... wanting the rights they think are important be respected while disrespecting the right to keep and bear arms just because they don't think that specific right is important? Seems to me that while the rights involved might be different the attitude is exactly the same.
And there is an easy way to lower the odds of being killed by staying out of private property that has a no guns rule/sign and shopping elsewhere even if it is inconvenient. But then you know all that and your argument is nothing more than a defense of your own personal convenience.
I am not the least bit worried about you or any of the other folks who think it is OK to ... sneak... their gun into/onto property that has a no guns rule/policy but I am adamant about providing the truth about the hypocrisy of demanding someone's favorite right of bearing arms be respected while disrespecting someone else's rights to anyone reading this discussion.
So how this for a novel idea? You just go ahead and continue to... sneak... your gun in content in using all manner of excuses to justify putting your personal convenience above the property rights of others while I continue to show just how hypocritical that is.
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Bikenut
Guest
How interesting that you don't even know me but are willing to make a statement about whether or not I own property. I find it very interesting that you, of all folks, would make mention of lame trolls.
The second amendment is a part of the bill of rights granted to us by our Creator. Property rights come from local governments don't they? I think property rights are important but I don't think having a title to a piece of land allows you to take other people rights from them.
bofh
Banned
Are you saying that there IS a right to free speech on someone else's private property that the property owner can not restrict? :lol:
corneileous
Active member
Hey, I'm not the idiot who thinks the no guns signs work. I'm actually getting tired of saying it but if they truly don't want guns in their store, they know what needs to be done.
Seriously? The REAL reason they put that sign up in the first place....Ring a bell? Spout off all your trespassing crap to someone who actually gives a hoot.
Whatever you say, man. You make it sound like we do it just becausewe're told not to and to defy the owner.
You got it....[emoji106]
I'm not picking anything, I'm just saying it's a right that I don't agree with in a public place, privately owned or not....unless they make sure all guns stay out. Then, just maybe, I wouldn't have to bring mine in there in the first place!! Magine that!
I don't give a rats ass what the anti-gunners think. You and I both know that their thoughts on why we shouldn't have guns at all make about as much sense as a screen door on a submarine. Until they come up with a real solution and a real reason why I should listen to them, maybe I would care about what they think. But I ain't gonna hold my breath.
Just that simple, huh??...lol. Wow.....lol.
Maybe in a bigger city where there's more competition to choose from but around here, it ain't that simple.
Hell, since more and more of these places are popping up, it's gonna get to the point where every place you go to will have a "robbers welcome" sign. Then what?
I personally don't care if my argument means anything to you or not, bud.
Call'em whatever you want man, whatever tickles your pickle.
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Bikenut
Guest
So much confusion about private property rights.
No one loses any rights regardless of where they are but folks can and do voluntarily agree to not exercise them in exchange for the property owner's permission to enter. Those who do not agree to abide by the owner's rules/policies do not have his permission to enter and if they enter anyway they are not only disrespecting his property rights they are also breaking the law by trespassing.
Please do not confuse the act of trespass (which happens the instant a person enters private property without the owner's permission) with being caught trespassing (which happens when the person gets caught in the act and is asked to leave) and with suffering legal penalties (the nuances of which vary from state to state).
So if the property owner has a no guns rule/policy/sign those who enter carrying a gun do not have his permission to enter and are trespassing. Those who carry guns still have the right to bear arms but they do not have the property owner's permission to exercise it while on/in his property.
If someone enters and decides to give a sermon (free speech right?) in the produce aisle the property owner can, and probably very quickly, revoke his permission to enter and throw that person out.
And despite all the excuses used to justify disrespecting the property owner's private property right to control who enters his property folks know all that which is why no one gives a sermon or a political campaign speech in the produce aisle and folks know it is necessary to ... sneak.. their gun in because they know darn well they will be thrown out if they get caught.
Also, when folks registered on this site they voluntarily agreed to the forum rules of USACarry so while we all still have the right to free speech we agreed to only exercise it in ways that USACarry deems acceptable. Exceeding the acceptability standard (rules) of USACarry will get us banned (trespassed, thrown out). We still have the right to free speech but we no longer have the website owner's permission to exercise it in/on the website.
I am not an attorney.
No one loses any rights regardless of where they are but folks can and do voluntarily agree to not exercise them in exchange for the property owner's permission to enter. Those who do not agree to abide by the owner's rules/policies do not have his permission to enter and if they enter anyway they are not only disrespecting his property rights they are also breaking the law by trespassing.
Please do not confuse the act of trespass (which happens the instant a person enters private property without the owner's permission) with being caught trespassing (which happens when the person gets caught in the act and is asked to leave) and with suffering legal penalties (the nuances of which vary from state to state).
So if the property owner has a no guns rule/policy/sign those who enter carrying a gun do not have his permission to enter and are trespassing. Those who carry guns still have the right to bear arms but they do not have the property owner's permission to exercise it while on/in his property.
If someone enters and decides to give a sermon (free speech right?) in the produce aisle the property owner can, and probably very quickly, revoke his permission to enter and throw that person out.
And despite all the excuses used to justify disrespecting the property owner's private property right to control who enters his property folks know all that which is why no one gives a sermon or a political campaign speech in the produce aisle and folks know it is necessary to ... sneak.. their gun in because they know darn well they will be thrown out if they get caught.
Also, when folks registered on this site they voluntarily agreed to the forum rules of USACarry so while we all still have the right to free speech we agreed to only exercise it in ways that USACarry deems acceptable. Exceeding the acceptability standard (rules) of USACarry will get us banned (trespassed, thrown out). We still have the right to free speech but we no longer have the website owner's permission to exercise it in/on the website.
I am not an attorney.
Bikenut you're either dumb or something, most of those ********' who plan on entering with most likely stolen firearms can't read so a sign isn't going to help all the people those morons are going to shoot. But, it's ok because Bikenut thought it would be responsible that all the law abiding concealed carrying should disarm prior to entering that fine establishment and now half of them are dead and the morons got away because there was no one there to stop them. You bleeding hearts should just jump off the nearest bridge and this country from your ********.
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Bikenut
Guest
If you have facts, with cites and/or links to back them up, that dispute what I said I would be very interested in seeing them.
If all you have are insults then you have nothing.
GeorgeK
New member
Not all states have the same trespass rules, our state has DNR trespass and criminal trespass. With criminal trespass you must be notified and asked to leave, if you promptly do so you have not trespassed, these are typically the states where the signs do not have force of law.
DNR trespass, well you have trespassed as soon as you pass the LEGALLY posted sign.
IANAL either but I talked to one.
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DNR trespass, well you have trespassed as soon as you pass the LEGALLY posted sign.
IANAL either but I talked to one.
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Bikenut
Guest
You are correct in that trespass laws vary from state to state. It would be prudent for folks to understand when and how the penalties for trespass apply for their own state and any state they visit.
It appears to me that in your state in the area of criminal trespass the signs serve as the "notification" component of the law and that immediately leaving is a stipulation in the law that allows the person an opportunity to avoid the penalties for trespassing.
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