What Happens to Us When We Die?
- Thread starter Ringo
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You seem to be very confused. I've been very clear about what I do and don't believe, and I'm not opposed to everything that is posted. Even if I was, is this not a place for discussion?
Anyway, belief is beautiful. Knowledge, however, is even better.
BC1
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"You're travelling through another dimension, a dimension not only of sight and sound but of mind; a journey into a wondrous land whose boundaries are that of imagination. That's the signpost up ahead - your next stop, the Twilight Zone!"
XD40scinNC
New member
Well if there was any truth to your statement, I am not buying the snake oil hawkers wares.
But since there are no gods, your argument is a non sequitur.
XD40scinNC
New member
OG, the perspective you fail to understand as that when I refer to your reference book as the "buy bull" it is a descriptive title of this collection of stories of ancient ignorance, superstitions and fears, intermixed with the greed and quest for power over others by the men that wrote the different short stories, because people "buy" into the fable.
I view your holy book, just like any other book you would find in the fiction section of any library. Can be entertaining to others, probably contains some passages worthy of being quoted, and most certainly will relate to actual events at some level. But as a definitive answer to anything, naw, it is just the musing of man, salted with their imagination, fears, phobias and agenda.
billt
Banned
Here is what I've taken away from this whole thread. If Christians and all other "believers", would at least admit the fact their belief is fragile, and requires constant reinforcing, they would have an easier time of attracting fence sitters much like myself. Instead of always going to guns on non believers, with this whole attitude of, "I believe and you don't, and you're going straight to HELL!". People like honesty. And the fact is they are willing to accept a believer, who readily admits that what they believe in is a really tough sell, and hard to swallow. It shows vulnerability, not some kind of perceived weakness. People like that. A bit like when someone gives a eulogy at a funeral, and begins to cry during their presentation. It shows feeling and open honesty. I've never once heard a Christian ever say, "You know what really worries me?, If I get to heaven and God doesn't believe that I believe, because my belief is weak, and sometimes even I question it".
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On the other side of this we see another example, albeit to the extreme, with radical Islam. They believe so strongly, that they want to kill anyone and everyone who doesn't see it their way. That turns people off like a switch. I'm not saying it's "bad" to strongly believe in your faith or religion. Just that you won't convince anyone by all but demanding you're right, and they're wrong. And because of your belief, you'll be rewarded with eternal life, while they on the other hand, are going to the hot basement to play 5 card stud with the devil for the rest of eternity. Or else are going to be deprived of 57 virgins, and will be forced to eat pork.
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On the other side of this we see another example, albeit to the extreme, with radical Islam. They believe so strongly, that they want to kill anyone and everyone who doesn't see it their way. That turns people off like a switch. I'm not saying it's "bad" to strongly believe in your faith or religion. Just that you won't convince anyone by all but demanding you're right, and they're wrong. And because of your belief, you'll be rewarded with eternal life, while they on the other hand, are going to the hot basement to play 5 card stud with the devil for the rest of eternity. Or else are going to be deprived of 57 virgins, and will be forced to eat pork.
Oldgrunt
Well-known member
Bill: I, as a Christian, will not admit to having a fragile belief in God. On the contrary, I have a strong belief in God and the only reinforcement I need is the Bible. If I make a comment to a non-believer, it is generally in rebuttal to something that has been said falsely about our beliefs or to offer a statement as to what we actually believe on any given subject and why. I can not tell anyone that they are going to hell. If one goes to hell, it is through their own decision to reject the salvation offered to them through Jesus Christ. Maybe Christianity is a tough sell to you but the only truth and/or proof we can offer you is the Bible, which has proven to be inerrant, and the happenings in the world today which verify what the Bible says. There are those who deny the Bible and God, relegating religion to myths and fairy tales from a dusty old book. That choice is made because we all have free will to believe, or not to believe, in God. Some of the people denying God are what could be called learned people, having an excellent education and having made their mark in the world through various professions and are very successful. They have let their professed knowledge blind them to the fact that becoming a Christian and to believe in God is a very simple matter. One has to approach God as a little child and believing. His forgiveness is free. All you have to do is accept Him and to believe. It may seem rather trite to say but, all the answers you are looking for are contained in the Bible. The onus is on you to believe. I hope you find what you are looking for.
XD40scinNC
New member
When they say;
Since you don't believe in my god, you're are going to hell
.....or
Since you don't believe in my god, and I'm going to kill you.
You know there ain't a lot of difference, and fear is the common denominator to perpetuate their views on others.
Farmhood
New member
I think it is very clear....there is a Big difference.
There is a bigger question here.
Since you do not believe in God and you do not believe in hell....
What is your point?
sinful nature is always hostile to God....
XD40scinNC
New member
Just holding up the mirror so theists can see how silly they look with their constant mantra of "be afraid" and demonstrating how similar belief in unproven supernatural nonsense is.
Farmhood
New member
Holding up a mirror? XD that sounds as goofy as it looks after reading it!
I'm holding up a mirror now.
OK?
sinful nature is always hostile to God....
XD40scinNC
New member
Sorry that posing a rational view of theists actions eludes you to such an extent, or is it merely a dodge because there is no way to deny that religion and it's hold on people is fear based. Believe in the imaginary friend of mine, or you are going to hell, and all without the first bit of factual evidence.
XD40scinNC
New member
Sorry that posing a rational view of theists actions eludes you to such an extent, or is it merely a dodge because there is no way to deny that religion and it's hold on people is fear based. Just pointing out the really silly behavior theists actually think will scare someone into believing in fantasies. Believe in the imaginary friend of mine, or you are going to hell, and all without the first bit of factual evidence.
billt
Banned
This is what irritates me the most about "believers". They refuse to admit they believe out of fear.
Farmhood
New member
Come on man! Look at your stuff.
You are always the "factual one".
If you don't believe what others post....well just don't believe.
I must give you this...you sure are very very interested in what others believe of which you do not believe and how you communicate your belief.
Are you an imaginary friend?sinful nature is always hostile to God....
Farmhood
New member
Please don't be irritated...it should come as no surprise that "believers" are not fearful.
Who brought up the fear stuff anyway?
Believers ALL know that perfect love casts out all fear! So that must have come from someone that is not claiming Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.... ya think?
sinful nature is always hostile to God....
billt
Banned
I'm not saying believers are "fearful". What I'm saying, (and several posts on this thread prove it), is that many believers believe strictly out of fear. They are afraid if they die without belief, they will be sentenced to an eternity in hell. Fear of what might happen if you don't believe contaminates honest belief for the right reasons.
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Example. A child should be taught to respect, and WANT, cleanliness. Therefore punishment should not enter into the equation if he doesn't clean his room. He should want to, for the exact same reasons as his parents want him to. While the end result is the same, (a clean room). The method used to achieve it is wrong, if the threat of punishment must come into play in order to get it done.
vernsimpson
New member
You have either chose to miss or forgot the other side of your example of the child cleaning his room. There are also rewards for the clean room. One is the good feeling of an orderly and clean room. Being able to find things easily because everything is in it's place and such. The dirty, messy and untidy room does not give anyone that same thing. I'm not saying that the room must be "sterile" as a laboratory, but at least pass the eye test to give you a sense of order.
There are always consequences for everyone's actions. Some good and some not so good, can even be very bad. The Bible does teach us that we should fear God. But I have always thought that the word fear means "respect"! Which is why there are so many different versions of the Bible. The different English versions are how they were translated into English. Sometimes words in other languages do not translate well into another language.
I am trying to fight here. I do know that religion and politics are VERY hot topics that each of us have very firm ideas. Most of the time they are to be avoided because the discussions become a shouting match and name calling by some. But I have thought for a long time that some (not all) people fear God and the Bible because of the fear of what they have give up if they become Believers. But as per your example of the child, there are vast rewards for the Believer! The biggest for me is the feeling of peace and well being. I am sorry but I do not have the words for everything else being a Believer does for me. That may seem lame but think of how you would describe colors to someone who has been totally blind from birth. We describe colors to people who do see as red as an apple, blue as the sky, red as a beet and many other ways. Or another example is how something tastes to someone without doing a comparison. The same for Believers and non-believers.
The best I can do is this. You are a "gun nut", mean that in a nice way. If you have to explain why you are a gun nut to someone, they would not understand! The words you use will not be understood and have no meaning! I believe you have met people like that. I know I have!!
Oldgrunt
Well-known member
As I read the many comments about fearing the Lord, it is obvious that many are confusing the term "fear" when referring to God. Rudolph Otto coined the term "Numinous" to express the type of fear one has for the Lord. C. S. Lewis references the term in his writings and specifically in his book The Problem of Pain. The fear of the numinous is not a fear that one feels for a wild animal or ghost, it is one filled with awe, in which you feel wonder and a certain shrinking of or sense of inadequacy to cope with such a visitant of or prostration before it. This fear comes forth out of love for the Lord. The fear of God is felt because of a fearful expectation of judgement but should not be a fear of despair but should be coupled with the trust and love of God.
Many Jews and Christians believe the fear of God to be devotion in itself rather than a sense of being frightened of God. It can also mean fear of God's judgement. In Prov. 8:13, the fear of God is described as "the hatred of evil." Fear of the Lord has been described as the convergence of awe, reverence, adoration, honor, worship, confidence, thankfulness, love, and yes, fear. I do not think many profess a belief in God simply because of fear alone. I think that would be too transparent to God. To some, it may be easier to deny the existence of God thereby eliminating fear for a non-existent entity and any punishment for violating His laws.
This is going to be a never ending argument.........for a while. In the end we will all know the truth
Many Jews and Christians believe the fear of God to be devotion in itself rather than a sense of being frightened of God. It can also mean fear of God's judgement. In Prov. 8:13, the fear of God is described as "the hatred of evil." Fear of the Lord has been described as the convergence of awe, reverence, adoration, honor, worship, confidence, thankfulness, love, and yes, fear. I do not think many profess a belief in God simply because of fear alone. I think that would be too transparent to God. To some, it may be easier to deny the existence of God thereby eliminating fear for a non-existent entity and any punishment for violating His laws.
This is going to be a never ending argument.........for a while. In the end we will all know the truth
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