Benefits of carrying concealed and having real priorities.

[sig_obsessed]

I agree that too many are carrying just to puff up their chests. Many forget that the point is to carry for personal protection. However, I can assure you that if I am ever in a place that is robbed... I will ignore it until I am threatened. If people at being shot I will defend innocent life. I practice several times a week despite ammo costs to ensure that I can use my side arm properly, effectively and accurately. I am not selfish enough to ignore the lives of others being taken at will. I would expect anyone to defend others. Its a responsibility born of common decency.

Again... my opinion.

 

[Dekul34]

I win...... you lose, you had multiple chances to prove my rights no longer exist when I am standing someplace that someone else owns..... You failed very miserably..... In fact, you were so scared to even attempt to prove it, you keep going to great lengths to change the subject every chance you get (trespass anyone?) or "its privately owned, but it is actually business property" so I guess that makes it ok to deny people their RIGHTS....


The ONLY time my rights will cease to exist is when I do......

Oh, btw..... that "IF" thing I wrote about (that you ignored) ..... it still exists... you know, where I say IF I am on a property...... not that I have the right to be there, just that I AM THERE..... guess what... my rights are still right there with me, no matter how much it drives you crazy or how many words you type to distract/change the subject, my rights are always with me wherever I go.. imagine that.......

Yep... you have the right to be armed, wherever you are... what you don't have is the right to be there.
The two issues never conflict, the property owner's right doesn't override, negate, or trump yours. As you say the second amendment grants you the right to be armed.

However.... you do not have the right to enter someone else's property without their permission. If someone makes rules about who has permission to enter their property, and you violate those rules, you instantly revoke your permission and have no right to be there. It does not matter whether they know you broke the rules and ask you personally to leave, the very act of them placing the sign WAS THE SAME AS THEM ASKING YOU TO LEAVE IF YOU ARE ARMED. So... yes, you have the right to be armed, but you've already been asked to leave (by the sign! nothing requires you to be personally verbally asked to leave, that is a courtesy) and are trespassing. You can get away with it as long as nobody notices but the entire time you are there you are wrong both legally (tresspass), and morally as you are violating the wishes of the owner of that property, with or without their knowledge, just as if someone came on your property whom you didn't want there is wrong, even if you're not home and don't ever know it happened.

Here's an example. Your neighbor, who until now had had your permission to enter your property, decides to crap on your lawn every morning for a month straight, and finally, you, not knowing who has been crapping on your lawn, put up a sign saying "no crapping on my lawn". The very next morning, your neighbor ignores the sign and craps on your lawn again, maybe you don't notice the new pile of crap among the 30 others so you feel like your sign is working, no real physical or emotional harm has been done by your neighbor's act, but he has violated the law by knowingly disobeying the sign which revoked his right to enter your property with the intent to crap on your lawn, your neighbor is wrong (in many ways in this example, but it is analogous to what you are doing.) It does not matter that crapping is an innate requirement of living, just like eating, breathing, and defending one's life, he has the right to crap, and that extends to wherever he happens to be right? Still, he didn't have the right to do it on your lawn because he didn't have the right to be on your lawn at all once he decided to crap on it.

 

[Steon]

I win...... you lose, you had multiple chances to prove my rights no longer exist when I am standing someplace that someone else owns..... You failed very miserably..... In fact, you were so scared to even attempt to prove it, you keep going to great lengths to change the subject every chance you get (trespass anyone?) or "its privately owned, but it is actually business property" so I guess that makes it ok to deny people their RIGHTS....


The ONLY time my rights will cease to exist is when I do......

Oh, btw..... that "IF" thing I wrote about (that you ignored) ..... it still exists... you know, where I say IF I am on a property...... not that I have the right to be there, just that I AM THERE..... guess what... my rights are still right there with me, no matter how much it drives you crazy or how many words you type to distract/change the subject, my rights are always with me wherever I go.. imagine that.......

Let's look at something first...

Bill of Rights
First Amendment
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petitition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Second Amendment
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Third Amendment
No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner; nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

Fourth Amendment
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Fifth Amendment
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself; nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use without just compensation.

Sixth Amendment
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed; which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor; and to have the assistance of counsel for his defence.

Seventh Amendment
In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury shall be otherwise reexamined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of common law.

Eighth Amendment
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

Ninth Amendment
The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Tenth Amendment
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Now let's focus on the Third and Fourth Amendments.

No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner...
and
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects...

Yes, I know these things go on to other areas than whether or not you can bring a gun into the house or not, but they do set up something else just as important. The Property Owners RIGHTS. Not Rules. Their RIGHTS! Given to them by the Bill of Rights under the COTUS.

I am done listening to Axeanda45's views on this. If I continue seeing Page after Page of these views in forum postings I am just going to have to figure out how to block him. I think this is the Third? Thread I've seen with him arguing I have the Right to carry on your property! and multiple people saying (Rightly) No you don't!

Axeanda, You say Concealed is Concealed.... So just CONCEAL IT ALREADY.

 

[Bikenut]

Just a comment:

The Bill of Rights does not "grant" us anything. It is merely putting into words the natural rights all human beings have simply because we were born... and the Bill of Rights tells the government of the United States it shall not control those rights.

The Bill of Rights isn't a list of things the government tells us we can do... it is a list of things "we the people" have told the government it cannot do.

That might seem like nit picking but it is a very important distinction of perspective because...

He who has the power to grant rights also has the power to revoke those rights.

 

[Nightmare45]

Old saying your rights end at my nose.

 

[jefro30]

I say carry everywhere allowed by law not a sign and pray you never have to pull your weapon!

Sent from my LG-MS770 using USA Carry mobile app

 

[Steon]

Just a comment:

The Bill of Rights does not "grant" us anything. It is merely putting into words the natural rights all human beings have simply because we were born... and the Bill of Rights tells the government of the United States it shall not control those rights.

The Bill of Rights isn't a list of things the government tells us we can do... it is a list of things "we the people" have told the government it cannot do.

That might seem like nit picking but it is a very important distinction of perspective because...

He who has the power to grant rights also has the power to revoke those rights.

Then as "We the People" Vote to take away our Rights, including the 2A, everyone here should just stop whining and hand them over by your reasoning, because the majority shall have ruled to revoke the Constitution.

I do not accept that. And I thought the very precept of eveyone's belief here was that the Constitution could not nor should not be revoked.

The Bill of Rights were written under the COTUS. Therefore just as under the 2A says I have the right to keep and bear arms, then under the 3A and 4A I have the right to determine who, what, and how enters my property, business or private.

 

[CharlesMorrison]

Then as "We the People" Vote to take away our Rights, including the 2A, everyone here should just stop whining and hand them over by your reasoning, because the majority shall have ruled to revoke the Constitution.

I do not accept that. And I thought the very precept of eveyone's belief here was that the Constitution could not nor should not be revoked.

The Bill of Rights were written under the COTUS. Therefore just as under the 2A says I have the right to keep and bear arms, then under the 3A and 4A I have the right to determine who, what, and how enters my property, business or private.

Ah..... Still not getting it.... Are you?


Sent from behind Enemy Lines.

 

[Steon]

Ah..... Still not getting it.... Are you?


Sent from behind Enemy Lines.

I'm thinking you're the one not getting it. It all goes back to the COTUS being the Supreme Law of the Land, and I've seen you claiming often enough that every state issuing 'Permission Slips' is violating the COTUS in even doing so.

Well you can't have it both ways.

The 'Founding Fathers' saw and included the provisions for the 'Intent of the Law' that a Property Owner should have the RIGHT to be SECURE on his PROPERTY. This means telling who and what may enter said property and under what conditions.

I quoted the 'Supreme Law of the Land' to validate my argument as to why I say NO ONE has the RIGHT to enter a property with a firearm, business or private, once said property owner has let his (or her) desire be known by word or sign (whether that sign meets any states required legal firearm signage laws or not) that firearms NOT BE PRESENT, whether said property owner is aware of the infringement or not. To do so is a VIOLATION OF THE PROPERTY OWNERS CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS as granted under Amendments 3 and 4. Whether you want to quibble over the wording of granted or not, so be it.

Old saying your rights end at my nose.

And the end of your nose has the RIGHT not to enter another persons property once it has been informed that your firearm is not welcome.

 

[Bikenut]

Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
Just a comment:

The Bill of Rights does not "grant" us anything. It is merely putting into words the natural rights all human beings have simply because we were born... and the Bill of Rights tells the government of the United States it shall not control those rights.

The Bill of Rights isn't a list of things the government tells us we can do... it is a list of things "we the people" have told the government it cannot do.

That might seem like nit picking but it is a very important distinction of perspective because...

He who has the power to grant rights also has the power to revoke those rights.

Then as "We the People" Vote to take away our Rights, including the 2A, everyone here should just stop whining and hand them over by your reasoning, because the majority shall have ruled to revoke the Constitution.

I do not accept that. And I thought the very precept of eveyone's belief here was that the Constitution could not nor should not be revoked.

The Bill of Rights were written under the COTUS. Therefore just as under the 2A says I have the right to keep and bear arms, then under the 3A and 4A I have the right to determine who, what, and how enters my property, business or private.

I would suggest that it isn't the majority that have voted to revoke the Constitution but it is those who are in government who do that since they know that once a law is put in place it is impossible to get it taken out. ObamaCare anyone? And I would also suggest that the entire election system is corrupt with gerrymandering and outright voter fraud making it highly suspicious that Senators and Representatives who vote to revoke the Constitution manage to get reelected over and over and over.... making what the "majority" vote for managed and/or fabricated. Not to mention that candidates are chosen so no matter who is voted for the very same agenda will be put into office.

Yes we should stop whining and actually do something positive to regain the ability to exercise our rights.

And I've been arguing in favor of private property rights all along.

 

[Axeanda45]

Rights exist, period, full stop..... they also do NOT disappear if someone elses name is on the deed, or they were NEVER rights to begin with....