Benefits of carrying concealed and having real priorities.

[Bikenut]

I see... in your world, it is not only ok to insist on endangering someone elses life just because you want to, it is also the one with superior morals who does it...

OK, I will just stay out of your fantasy world while I live in the real one...

you know, the one where we all have the same rights.....

The private property owner is NOT endangering your life by having a no guns rule. YOU are endangering your own life if you choose to follow that rule and leave your gun outside. But it is also YOU who is choosing to disregard the property owner's right to ban guns if you sneak your gun in anyway. And it is YOU who is being hypocritical if you say we all have the same rights yet you would disregard the rights of others while claiming your right to bear arms trumps the property owner's private property rights.

The thing is Axe... if you truly believe your right to bear arms trumps the property owner's right to ban guns... why are you sneaking the gun in? Why wouldn't you man up and carry it in plain sight? Don't give me the weak excuse that you are saving the property owner the embarrassment of being shown his gun ban is silly or that it is morally superior to pretend to obey the property owner's rule while you know you are breaking it.... try to man up and explain why you wouldn't have the moral courage to stand behind your beliefs and just carry your gun in plain sight.

 

[Firefighterchen]

I see... in your world, it is not only ok to insist on endangering someone elses life just because you want to, it is also the one with superior morals who does it...

OK, I will just stay out of your fantasy world while I live in the real one...

you know, the one where we all have the same rights.....

I'm not forcing anyone onto my property, they are endangering themselves by choosing to come onto my property. Not only because they must disarm, but because they will be considered a threat which I have every right to stop on my property.

Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app

 

[Axeanda45]

I am going to paint a few pictures for your mind to see:

In bikenuts world (as I see it, from what he has written) There are "rights" people have out in the world, and there are "rights" you have on your own property, but the 2 sets of "rights" cannot and do not ever mix. Once someone (God forbid) comes onto his property, he now becomes the ONLY person in the WORLD with a say over whether that person on his "property" has any rights at all, whether they have the "right" to live or die, whether they have the "right" not to be forever a slave and required to do anything he says or risk death or dismemberment at his hand, and there is NOTHING the "law" or anyone else for that matter can say or do to remove this awesome "power" he welds on his "property"........


In my world, IF someone is on my property I know that I cannot kill them or enslave them, rape their wives with impunity, etc...... I see them as human, like myself, and as such, they have rights just like I do..... One of those "rights" is the right to carry their personal property on their person (as long as it doesnt actually endanger me or my property by the mere fact of its existence on their person) what gives me the "right" to refuse it (the inanimate object that does not harm me) being there? How can I claim to have that power over someone? Do I own their property? Do I own them? No, I dont, yet bikenut claims "property owners" do...


You cannot claim to be a champion or supporter of "rights" if you insist others dont have any just because you are the one that sends payments to the bank for the property they happen to be standing on, sorry......

"Rights" belong to all of us everywhere, not just where others want them to or not...

 

[Bikenut]

I am going to paint a few pictures for your mind to see:

In bikenuts world (as I see it, from what he has written) There are "rights" people have out in actual public, and there are "rights" you have on your own property, but the 2 sets of "rights" cannot and do not ever mix. Once someone (God forbid) comes onto his property, he now becomes the ONLY person in the WORLD with a say over whether that person on his "property" has any rights at all, whether they have the "right" to live or die, whether they have the "right" not to be forever a slave and required to do anything he says or risk death or dismemberment at his hand, and there is NOTHING the "law" or anyone else for that matter can say or do to remove this awesome "power" he welds on his "property"........


In my world, IF someone is on my property I know that I cannot kill them or enslave them, rape their wives with impunity, etc...... I see them as human, like myself, and as such, they have rights just like I do..... One of those "rights" is the right to carry their personal property on their person (as long as it doesnt actually endanger me or my property by the mere fact of its existence on their person) what gives me the "right" to refuse it being there?


You cannot claim to be a champion or supporter of "rights" if you insist others dont have any just because you are the one that sends payments to the bank for the property they happen to be standing on, sorry......

"Rights" belong to all of us everywhere, not just where others want them to or not...

Wow.. you just keep on showing folks who indulges in that hypocrisy thing...

Please note the part of your post I put in bold for emphasis.... and understand that you cannot claim to be a supporter of "rights" if you insist that your right to bear arms trumps the private property right of others to ban guns on/in their property.

Oh... and in the real world private property rights trump your right to bear arms and you even know it since you have said that you would sneak your gun onto/into private property where the property owner has banned guns.

Do you deny that you said:

Originally posted by Axeanda45
If I came up on your property line and saw a sign that said no weapons allowed, I would simply smile inside and put you in a little box there as someone who has absolutely no idea how dangerous this world is and what a little feeble minded idiot you are and carry anyway... WHILE I am carrying there, I would NOT want to show everyone else what an idiot you are and so I would keep my gun hidden from view out of embarrassment for YOU....

One more time... if you truly believe that your right to bear arms trumps the private property right to ban guns why wouldn't you man up up to your beliefs and openly carry your gun? Why do you feel it necessary to sneak the gun in?

 

[Axeanda45]

One more time... if you truly believe that your right to bear arms trumps the private property right to ban guns why wouldn't you man up up to your beliefs and openly carry your gun? Why do you feel it necessary to sneak the gun in?

Where do you keep pulling this from? your backside? is this the only way your fantasy imagines I can "break your rule"? Is it confusing you that your rule might not be correctly broken without parading it in front of you? Do you have fantasies of offing any "rulebreaker" and I am playing against/upsetting your fantasies by not playing along exactly the way you imagine I should?

 

[Axeanda45]

Our RIGHTS exist everywhere, the BOR simply points out a couple that the Govt is not allowed (yeh right, how's that working out for us?) to touch....... Yet, arent you, as property owner the gov't on your property? isnt that the root of what you keep insisting? You are the "lawmaker" on your property? Well, guess what I have never argued against that point.... I simply say you can only go so far, and no further... Once past that point, no-one has power over me or you, no matter how much they want it... The ONLY way you have that "power" over/past that point is if I allow you to... I do NOT give you that power and it is absolutely driving you nuts......

 

[Bikenut]

Where do you keep pulling this from? your backside? is this the only way your fantasy imagines I can "break your rule"? Is it confusing you that your rule might not be correctly broken without parading it in front of you? Do you have fantasies of offing any "rulebreaker" and I am playing against/upsetting your fantasies by not playing along exactly the way you imagine I should?

I don't have any fantasies about anything... it is you who pulled that out of somewhere in the hopes of elevating your argument by ridiculing me with a negative implication. It's not working because all can see that you are merely attempting to evade the question... and the question is quite simple.

If you truly believe that your right to bear arms trumps the private property right to ban guns why wouldn't you man up to your beliefs and openly carry instead of sneaking your gun into/onto the property concealed?

 

[Bikenut]

Our RIGHTS exist everywhere, the BOR simply points out a couple that the Govt is not allowed (yeh right, how's that working out for us?) to touch....... Yet, arent you, as property owner the gov't on your property? isnt that the root of what you keep insisting? You are the "lawmaker" on your property? Well, guess what I have never argued against that point.... I simply say you can only go so far, and no further... Once past that point, no-one has power over me or you, no matter how much they want it... The ONLY way you have that "power" over/past that point is if I allow you to... I do NOT give you that power and it is absolutely driving you nuts......

Actually I think the simple fact that the property owner has the power to deny you, and your gun, permission to have access to his property... and that you must first have the property owner's permission... and you don't have any power to the contrary ... and that it is you who is powerless to force the property owner to allow you to carry your gun.... and that powerlessness is evidenced by your knowledge that you must sneak your gun in... that is the real thorn in your side.

Like it or not neither you, nor anyone else, is so important that their right to bear arms trumps the property owner's private property right to ban guns. And you even know that because if you truly believed your right to bear arms trumped the property owners right to ban guns you would proudly man up and stand up for your right by openly carrying your gun into/onto property where it is banned. But you don't want to do that do you? You prefer to sneak your gun in deluding yourself that sneaking in a gun has some kind of moral high ground.

 

[gundaddypv]

Since I started this thread, I believe that I have the unique perspective of being able to explain what the whole point of this thread is.

The priority I was talking about is the priority of life. Because my life is worth more than the feelings of some business owner or their need to save face, I chose my life above their rule. And, since my right to continue breathing can not possibly be considered to be on the same level as their right to restrict certain legal objects on their property, I choose my right over theirs.

There is a fix for this problem. The fix is to say that any business which does not allow concealed weapons onto their premises or into their buildings must provide metal detectors and armed guards in order to ensure that each and every single person who comes in is unarmed, and just in case a badguy does sneak one in, there are armed guards to immediately respond with force. Otherwise, they can not ban guns on their premises.

I know - right now some of you are saying "It's not the government's job to do that" or "the government would create an undue burden on private businesses". However, what you're really saying is that the government DOES have the right to do that to citizens and the government DOES have the right to create an undue burden on private citizens. Since when?!

Since when does a non-corporeal entity (such as a business) have more rights than a real, living, breathing, born-in-these-United-States American? Since we the People let the government make such stupid rules. The perfect illustrations for this are California and New York, where the 2nd Amendment has been completely disregarded.

As a result of some of the replies to this thread, I have decided that any business which does not support my 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms can keep their California-transplant tree-hugging anti-Constitution customers. I will be doing business elsewhere. I will be spending more and will have to do more driving, but it's worth every penny.

 

[Bikenut]

-snip-
As a result of some of the replies to this thread, I have decided that any business which does not support my 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms can keep their California-transplant tree-hugging anti-Constitution customers. I will be doing business elsewhere. I will be spending more and will have to do more driving, but it's worth every penny.

I applaud your decision!

 

[Axeanda45]

Actually I think the simple fact that the property owner has the power to deny you, and your gun, permission to have access to his property... and that you must first have the property owner's permission... and you don't have any power to the contrary ... and that it is you who is powerless to force the property owner to allow you to carry your gun.... and that powerlessness is evidenced by your knowledge that you must sneak your gun in... that is the real thorn in your side.

Like it or not neither you, nor anyone else, is so important that their right to bear arms trumps the property owner's private property right to ban guns. And you even know that because if you truly believed your right to bear arms trumped the property owners right to ban guns you would proudly man up and stand up for your right by openly carrying your gun into/onto property where it is banned. AGAIN you come back with this idiotic idea that if I dont do something the way you think it should be done then I am not actually doing it... you have serious mental problems dude... But you don't want to do that do you? You prefer to sneak your gun in deluding yourself that sneaking in a gun has some kind of moral high ground.

Actually, you are the one with the thorn in your side.... I am 100% at peace with myself AND THE PROPERTY OWNER when I carry my firearm against their wishes and without their knowledge ( they just dont know any better, so I allow them to continue in their fantasy, as I would a 5 yr old)... and this FACT is what is killing YOU.........


You cannot let it go that I really dont give a rats ass about someone elses perceived (but invalid) thought that they have any power over me at all.... You get so upset when I refuse to bow down to your imagined AUTHORITY as a GOD (property owner) that you just wont let it be and keep trying to ridicule my stance so others will maybe side with you....

 

[Axeanda45]

What you continue to fail to comprehend is that I do recognize that a property owner has the right to make rules... and he has the right to deny anyone, including me onto his property... while at the same time I also recognize my own rights, and they (in this matter, the right to carry whatever I want on my person) is a right that is higher and it trumps the property owners rights... So, in this case, his rules are NOT a valid reason to keep me from coming onto his property.... You just cant wrap your head around it and it is driving you crazy... it is like you are going around in a loop saying does not compute, does not compute......

Do you really want others on here to believe that you actually do think you have the right to kill someone with impunity on your property just because they didnt follow one of your rules?
Or that you can rape them and their children and they have no rights to resist because you have a rule against that too? Just to name a few examples of what your stance actually is if taken at face value to its logical conclusion...

I actually respect your stance on basically everything else you have written about in this forum. but you are just not correct on this issue......

My stance on the other hand, allows both of us to have rights and continue to be civilized and interact without actually hurting anyone at all... and no, breaking someones rule when they dont even realize it has been broken does NOT hurt them at all, contrary to what you keep claiming.

 

[Bikenut]

Actually, you are the one with the thorn in your side.... I am 100% at peace with myself AND THE PROPERTY OWNER when I carry my firearm against their wishes and without their knowledge ( they just dont know any better, so I allow them to continue in their fantasy, as I would a 5 yr old)... and this FACT is what is killing YOU.........


You cannot let it go that I really dont give a rats ass about someone elses perceived (but invalid) thought that they have any power over me at all.... You get so upset when I refuse to bow down to your imagined AUTHORITY as a GOD (property owner) that you just wont let it be and keep trying to ridicule my stance so others will maybe side with you....

ROFL!!!

I'm not upset at all... I find great humor in the fact that you actually know the property owner has the power to deny you, and everything you are carrying, permission to be on/in his property so the only way you can defy the property owner and get away with it is to sneak your gun in. And you really think it is the property owner that is behaving like a 5 year old? Again.... ROFL!!!

If you truly believe that your right to bear arms trumps the property owner's right to ban guns.... why are you sneaking your gun in so the property owner doesn't know instead of just openly carrying to show the property owner that he has no power over you? Or are you afraid that if the property owner knew you were carrying a gun the property owner would show you just how much power he has over you by throwing you, and everything you are carrying, out of/off of his property?

 

[Bikenut]

What you continue to fail to comprehend is that I do recognize that a property owner has the right to make rules... and he has the right to deny anyone, including me onto his property... while at the same time I also recognize my own rights, and they (in this matter, the right to carry whatever I want on my person) is a right that is higher and it trumps the property owners rights... So, in this case, his rules are NOT a valid reason to keep me from coming onto his property.... You just cant wrap your head around it and it is driving you crazy... it is like you are going around in a loop saying does not compute, does not compute......

Do you really want others on here to believe that you actually do think you have the right to kill someone with impunity on your property just because they didnt follow one of your rules?
Or that you can rape them and their children and they have no rights to resist because you have a rule against that too? Just to name a few examples of what your stance actually is if taken at face value to its logical conclusion...

Let us make no mistake! I have never said anything about my believing in killing or raping! And I challenge you to quote where I have said anything like that! The only thing I have done is cite and link to what the laws are in Texas. DO NOT put words into my mouth! Stop using the liberal tactics of insult and ridicule hoping to add some kind of validity to your position. It won't work since I have never said anything like that. YOU are the one who keeps talking about killing and raping!

I actually respect your stance on basically everything else you have written about in this forum. but you are just not correct on this issue......

My stance on the other hand, allows both of us to have rights and continue to be civilized and interact without actually hurting anyone at all... and no, breaking someones rule when they dont even realize it has been broken does NOT hurt them at all, contrary to what you keep claiming.

Part of my reply is in red above.

Your stance is the same stance of the liberals who want to ban guns completely... it's all about "Hooray for MY rights and to hell with yours."

And you actually have the audacity to say:

What you continue to fail to comprehend is that I do recognize that a property owner has the right to make rules... and he has the right to deny anyone, including me onto his property... while at the same time I also recognize my own rights, and they (in this matter, the right to carry whatever I want on my person) is a right that is higher and it trumps the property owners rights... So, in this case, his rules are NOT a valid reason to keep me from coming onto his property.... You just cant wrap your head around it and it is driving you crazy... it is like you are going around in a loop saying does not compute, does not compute......
-snip-

And not understand:

Hypocrite - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

hyp·o·crite
noun \ˈhi-pə-ˌkrit\

: a person who claims or pretends to have certain beliefs about what is right but who behaves in a way that disagrees with those beliefs

Again.... if you truly believe that your right to bear arms trumps the property owner's right to ban guns why do you feel it necessary to sneak your gun into/onto the property? Why won't you man up and stand up for your beliefs by confronting the property owner by openly carrying? Could it be you already know and understand the property owner has the power over you to throw you out of his property and the only way you can get away with defying the property owner is to sneak your gun in?

I find it hilarious that a person would claim some kind of higher morality while sneaking so they don't get caught.

 

[Axeanda45]

ROFL!!!

I'm not upset at all... I find great humor in the fact that you actually know the property owner has the power to deny you, and everything you are carrying, permission to be on/in his property so the only way you can defy the property owner and get away with it is to sneak you gun in. And you really think it is the property owner that is behaving like a 5 year old? Again.... ROFL!!!

If you truly believe that your right to bear arms trumps the property owner's right to ban guns.... why are you sneaking your gun in so the property owner doesn't know instead of just openly carrying to show the property owner that he has no power over you? Or are you afraid that if the property owner knew you were carrying a gun the property owner would show you just how much power he has over you by throwing you, and everything you are carrying, out of/off of his property?

*Sigh*
really? you have nothing but ridicule to back up your argument? I have stated many times (and you keep ignoring my truthful answer to your question) so, I will state it one more time... I consider his "rule" to be so childish and stupid (and it infringes on my RIGHTS to boot) , that I keep my gun hidden so he can continue in his fantasy world and not be bothered with reality... What part of this dont you understand? Is stomping your feet and repeating the same question over and over all you have? or is it really just your fantasy that the only way I can break someones rules correctly is if I parade in front of them open carrying?

 

[Axeanda45]

Let me see... in order for me to break someones rules about not carrying weapons on their property I have to parade around like a gay pride fool in front of them taunting them with my forbidden weapons...

If this is right, then the opposite must also be true... that I am NOT breaking their rules if I keep it hidden and they dont know it is there... wow, thank you for pointing that out to me Bikenut! SOOOOO...... WHY THE HELL ARE YOU CONTINUING TO INSIST I AM BREAKING THERE RULES WHEN YOU CLAIM I AM NOT IN THE SAME BREATH???

 

[Axeanda45]

I think it is time for both of us to quit bikenut, neither of us is going to see things as the other does....

But, just so you know, I consider myself the winner! (lol)

Later!

 

[Bikenut]

*Sigh*
really? you have nothing but ridicule to back up your argument? I have stated many times (and you keep ignoring my truthful answer to your question) so, I will state it one more time... I consider his "rule" to be so childish and stupid (and it infringes on my RIGHTS to boot) , that I keep my gun hidden so he can continue in his fantasy world and not be bothered with reality... What part of this dont you understand? Is stomping your feet and repeating the same question over and over all you have? or is it really just your fantasy that the only way I can break someones rules correctly is if I parade in front of them open carrying?

Why do you continue to avoid and evade my question? Is it because you know the only way you can get away with defying a property owner's no guns rule is to sneak you gun in concealed?

Perhaps that question strikes to the core of the hypocrisy of someone who says:

Originally Posted by Axeanda45 View Post
What you continue to fail to comprehend is that I do recognize that a property owner has the right to make rules... and he has the right to deny anyone, including me onto his property...

And then goes on to say:

Originally Posted by Axeanda45 View Post
while at the same time I also recognize my own rights, and they (in this matter, the right to carry whatever I want on my person) is a right that is higher and it trumps the property owners rights...

If the property owner has the right to deny you access to his property but you think your right to bear arms trumps his right .... why are you so afraid of being caught defying that right that you have to sneak your gun in?

 

[Bikenut]

Let me see... in order for me to break someones rules about not carrying weapons on their property I have to parade around like a gay pride fool in front of them taunting them with my forbidden weapons...

If this is right, then the opposite must also be true... that I am NOT breaking their rules if I keep it hidden and they dont know it is there... wow, thank you for pointing that out to me Bikenut! SOOOOO...... WHY THE HELL ARE YOU CONTINUING TO INSIST I AM BREAKING THERE RULES WHEN YOU CLAIM I AM NOT IN THE SAME BREATH???

No... if you truly believed your right to bear arms trumped the property owner's right to ban guns... why are you so afraid of getting caught defying the property owner that you have to hide your gun and sneak it in? Just how strong is your belief? Only strong enough to not get caught?

 

[Axeanda45]

One final thing bikenut... I happened to read this post of yours AFTER I posted the above.....

You said:
Let us make no mistake! I have never said anything about killing or raping! And I challenge you to quote where I have said anything like that! DO NOT put words into my mouth! Stop using the liberal tactics of insult and ridicule hoping to add some kind of validity to your position. It won't work since I have never said anything like that. YOU are the one who keeps talking about killing and raping!

You said it without even realizing you did just by the simple fact of claiming a property owner has "rights" that they simply do not have. (and I have been trying to show you that they dont)

IF a property owner, as you claim, has the "right" to deny anyone else any of their "rights" then just where does the line start or end? YOU claim they have the "right" that I be unarmed and at their mercy, I very simply follow this to the only logical conclusion there can be, and that is if, as you claim, they have the right over me to prohibit me the basic human right of self defense, they have the right (again, you claim they do, and I deny they do) to deny me any and all of my other "rights" as well... I pointed out rape and such as an example of what your argument actually is to get you to think about what you are actually saying....

You CANNOT infringe on others "rights" just because you own the property they are standing on... IF you could (if the truth is what YOU say it is and I am wrong) then you actually DO have the right to rape or kill or steal or anything else you desire to do as long as your name is on the deed or lease/rent papers... Deal with it, YOU are the one who claims you have the RIGHT to deny others theirs.... not me.