Benefits of carrying concealed and having real priorities.

[Bikenut]

Thanks for your opinion but where I live concealed weapons aren't considered sneaking around so why even say that. Reading my state laws on trespassing reveals you are only trespassing if you retrieve a domestic animal and carry a weapon. I would never consider going shopping as trespassing and neither does my state. I think you missed my point but oh well.

First of all.... no one has the right to shop at a business.... they only have the business owner's permission to shop. And if a business has a no guns rule/policy then those who carry guns do not have the owner's permission to shop there. A person who willfully ignores that no guns rule by carrying a concealed gun in (even if concealed carry is legal under firearms laws it is still illegal under trespass laws if the business has a rule that those with guns do not have permission to be on/in the property) they are "sneaking" the gun in.

The thing is.... each State has different laws.... but most States base their laws on the concept that it is the private property owner who has control of his/her private property. And a business is NOT public property but is STILL private property. And it is the property owner who has the right and the power to set conditions concerning who, where, why, and how, (a business has some laws concerning protected classes of people that it cannot discriminate against) has the owner's permission to be in/on that property. And a no guns rule simply means people with guns do not have permission to be on/in the property (do not have permission to shop)... so those who carry concealed guns in anyway ARE sneaking the gun in where they do not have permission to be.

Link Removed

tres·pass
ˈtrespəs,-ˌpas/
verb
verb: trespass; 3rd person present: trespasses; past tense: trespassed; past participle: trespassed; gerund or present participle: trespassing

1.
enter the owner's land or property without permission.
-snip-

If the owner bans guns then folks who carry guns do not have the owner's permission and are trespassing... and they are trespassing whether they get caught at it or not... hence they are "sneaking" a gun into where it is not allowed.

By the way... what State are you in? I'd like to have a look at the trespass laws that you mentioned.

 

[Bikenut]

As an aside.... (the word "you" in the following is meant in the generic form and isn't directed at any individual or group of individuals)

I think there is a misconception that a concealed carry permit means a person has permission to carry a concealed gun anywhere except where the permit says it is illegal. While that is true concerning the State's firearms laws it isn't the entire picture since a property owner/business owner has the power to cancel out that carry permit simply by banning guns on/in his private property.

I think some folks do not understand that private property rights, and the power to exercise that right supported by trespass laws, trumps other rights.

Freedom of speech? Try standing in the aisle of a store telling all and sundry how you feel about Obama and see how fast you are kicked out.

Freedom of Religion? Give a sermon/hold a prayer meeting in the middle of Wal Mart and see how that works for you.

Right to bear arms? Get caught sneaking a gun into a store that bans guns and see how fast you are required to leave... refuse to leave and see how fast you are arrested for trespass.

Make no mistake... the offense of trespass happened when you ignored the no guns rule... being told to leave happened because you got caught at it.... and the arrest happened because you remained where you didn't have permission to be in the first place.

 

[Nukeranger]

Thanks for the info.

 

[Axeanda45]

OH WAHHHHHH...... an inanimate object that is doing nothing to harm me is on my property!!!!!!!!!!!! It is the end of the world!!!! All is lost!!!!!!!
Nothing will ever be the same.... call my therapist!!!! How will I ever get over this?????

My goodness..... I dont shive a git what someone elses rules are when my LIFE may depend on what I have on my person...... NO-ONE, ANYWHERE has the RIGHT to prevent me (or you) from having the tools to protect ourselves..... "laws" that DENY anyone the RIGHT to have the tools they choose to carry (these tools dont harm ANYONE while being safely carried on someones person) are against nature and against common sense.....

Why are you people arguing and telling people they "will get in trouble" or be "guilty of trespassing" (whahhhh) when it might just be that "trespassing" firearm that SAVES THEIR LIFE SOMEDAY???????

The safeguarding of my life (being able to carry a tool that may help me survive an encounter) 100% TRUMPS any and ALL "laws" or "rules" that try to say I dont have that RIGHT once I pass an invisible line somewhere...

 

[BC1]

Thanks for your opinion but where I live concealed weapons aren't considered sneaking around so why even say that. Reading my state laws on trespassing reveals you are only trespassing if you retrieve a domestic animal and carry a weapon. I would never consider going shopping as trespassing and neither does my state. I think you missed my point but oh well.

I think if you check a little closer you'll find trespass occurs whenever you refuse to leave private property.
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I carry regardless. When I saw the sign at the bank I ignored it. Signs have no weight of law in NY. They can only ask me to leave if they think I'm carrying.

 

[Johnny Dollar]

It’s been pointed out several times in just this thread but the only right you have to be on my private property is the right I grant you by inviting you there and as the person that owns the property I can revoke that invitation any time I choose for any reason I choose.

If my private property is open to the public, I can’t refuse service based on religion, gender, sexual orientation, nationality, ethnicity or political affiliation but it’s still my property and I can set the conditions under which you enter and I can prohibit any item I wish. I can even put up a sign at the front door that says you cannot come in my business unless you agree to a search coming and going because it’s my property and you have no right to be there unless I say you do in the first place.

So , yes if you enter my property having violated the conditions I set for you to enter you are trespassing the second you cross my property line.

 

[Nukeranger]

I was only writing about "trespassing with a gun". I wasn't interested in a google definition or anyone's other info about trespassing. Because, I thought this was about guns! Silly me.

 

[Johnny Dollar]

My goodness..... I dont shive a git what someone elses rules are

Really, you could have ended this sentence right there.

The safeguarding of my life (being able to carry a tool that may help me survive an encounter) 100% TRUMPS any and ALL "laws" or "rules" that try to say I dont have that RIGHT once I pass an invisible line somewhere...

So do you carry at the Post Office? How about if you get called to Jury Duty?

 

[GlassWolf]

actually the worst that can happen is that you get caught in some place like a post office while carrying, and you get charged with a felony, which will prevent you from ever carrying a firearm again, or even owning one.

 

[GlassWolf]

Really, you could have ended this sentence right there.

So do you carry at the Post Office? How about if you get called to Jury Duty?

Jury Duty takes place in a court house, wherein there are metal detectors, and armed guards who search people entering the building. Not an option to carry there.

 

[Johnny Dollar]

STOP giving people a hard time for FOLLOWING the 2nd Amendment and having the GALL to be enough of a patriot to ignore UNCONSTITUTIONAL LAWS...

FWIW I’m fairly sure the above poster has me on ignore so he will likely never see this and that’s OK because it’s more directed at the rest of the board than him because he’s going to ignore it anyway.

Sneaking around with your gun hidden and hopping you don’t get caught is not the same as patriotically ignoring all unconstitutional laws (speaking of which I wonder if this poster pays income tax?).

A true patriot who honestly believes the laws are unjust and unconstitutional would be right out there at the post office with his AR strapped to his back daring “the man” to arrest him. The Boston Tea Party wasn’t a covert operation everyone in town including the British regulars knew it was happening.

I’m curious what the poster would do if he were caught carrying in Wal Mart and asked to leave? Or better yet what would this poster do if he were caught carrying in the Post Office (BTW altering your life so you don’t have to go to the Post Office isn’t the same as ignoring unconstitutional laws) and arrested? Would he refuse to submit?

 

[Johnny Dollar]

Jury Duty takes place in a court house, wherein there are metal detectors, and armed guards who search people entering the building. Not an option to carry there.

The poster stated quite clearly that his right to defend his life and by extension to carry the tools to do so over rode anyone else’s right to tell him he couldn’t carry . People can be and have been shot in Court Houses.

In case you forgot

The safeguarding of my life (being able to carry a tool that may help me survive an encounter) 100% TRUMPS any and ALL "laws" or "rules" that try to say I dont have that RIGHT once I pass an invisible line somewhere...

 

[Firefighterchen]

OH WAHHHHHH...... an inanimate object that is doing nothing to harm me is on my property!!!!!!!!!!!! It is the end of the world!!!! All is lost!!!!!!!
Nothing will ever be the same.... call my therapist!!!! How will I ever get over this?????

My goodness..... I dont shive a git what someone elses rules are when my LIFE may depend on what I have on my person...... NO-ONE, ANYWHERE has the RIGHT to prevent me (or you) from having the tools to protect ourselves..... "laws" that DENY anyone the RIGHT to have the tools they choose to carry (these tools dont harm ANYONE while being safely carried on someones person) are against nature and against common sense.....

Why are you people arguing and telling people they "will get in trouble" or be "guilty of trespassing" (whahhhh) when it might just be that "trespassing" firearm that SAVES THEIR LIFE SOMEDAY???????

The safeguarding of my life (being able to carry a tool that may help me survive an encounter) 100% TRUMPS any and ALL "laws" or "rules" that try to say I dont have that RIGHT once I pass an invisible line somewhere...

If you are caught trespassing on private property that has banned guns, and the owner now feels threatened because you decided your Rights trumped his Rights on his property, he has every Right to stop that threat with deadly force which will cause you to lose your Rights to carry a firearm on this earth until the second coming, reincarnation, or indefinitely depending on your beliefs.

There is a simple way to keep your firearm on you without walking on other people's Rights.

Who's supporting anti gun establishments anyways?

Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app

 

[Axeanda45]

Breaking someones RULES is absolutely NOT infringing on their RIGHTS no matter how many times you try to say it is.....

Dollar boy... You should have actually read up on the Boston Tea party BEFORE you spouted off your ignorance....... The participants dressed up as Indians to disguise themselves.... geesh, a 3rd grader knows this, why dont you?

Parading in a post office begging to be arrested is stupid, not patriotic... get a clue.
Trespassing is an extremely MINOR thing compared to dying because you didnt have the tools to defend yourself because you werent smart enough to weigh which was more important, your life or someones rules or feeeeeeeeeeeelings......

 

[Axeanda45]

People who keep insisting that their RULES on their property trump other peoples RIGHTS are thinking very shallow..... If it is as you say it is, then if you come on my property I could forbid you to breathe.. my property, my rights, my rules, RIGHT????????? and if you have the gall to breathe while on my property, according to firefighter, I now have the RIGHT to defend myself with deadly force because I now feeeeeeeel threatened because you broke my rules, right???

STOP imagining property "rights" to be more than they actually are...... If you find someone doing something against your "rules" on your property, ask them to leave, simple as that... IF they dont leave, THEN they have trespassed, not before.......... I have never, ever stated that you couldnt ask anyone to leave (or never come onto the property in the first place) for any reason you wanted to, or no reason.... doesnt matter. BUT no-one has the "right" to infringe on anyones RIGHT to carry an inanimate object on their person anywhere at anytime... That object does absolutely no harm or infringement to anyone or anything.

Your rights are only valid when they leave mine intact and the reverse applies...... because you confuse "Rights" with "Rules" you cannot fathom the very simple application of this true principle....

 

[Axeanda45]

"Rightful liberty is unobstructed action, according to our will, within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others."

-- Thomas Jefferson

One of the KEY words here is "Equal"


Is it "equal" if YOU can carry a gun in your business but I cannot?


I suppose I could start arguing from the position of Liberty vs Rights.... might make it less confusing. Although I am not much on labels or such, my views tend to be mainly Libertarian in nature...

 

[Johnny Dollar]

Dollar boy... You should have actually read up on the Boston Tea party BEFORE you spouted off your ignorance....... The participants dressed up as Indians to disguise themselves.... geesh, a 3rd grader knows this, why dont you?

I'm sorry, I missed the part where being disguised would have stopped the regulars from opening fire on the partiers.

 

[BC1]

I was only writing about "trespassing with a gun". I wasn't interested in a google definition or anyone's other info about trespassing. Because, I thought this was about guns! Silly me.

What he's trying to explain is that the right to remain on private property with a gun is predicated on the fact that one has no right to remain there without a gun. It isn't a gun issue.

 

[BC1]

People who keep insisting that their RULES on their property trump other peoples RIGHTS are thinking very shallow..... If it is as you say it is, then if you come on my property I could forbid you to breathe.. my property, my rights, my rules, RIGHT????????? and if you have the gall to breathe while on my property, according to firefighter, I now have the RIGHT to defend myself with deadly force because I now feeeeeeeel threatened because you broke my rules, right???

STOP imagining property "rights" to be more than they actually are...... If you find someone doing something against your "rules" on your property, ask them to leave, simple as that... IF they dont leave, THEN they have trespassed, not before.......... I have never, ever stated that you couldnt ask anyone to leave (or never come onto the property in the first place) for any reason you wanted to, or no reason.... doesnt matter. BUT no-one has the "right" to infringe on anyones RIGHT to carry an inanimate object on their person anywhere at anytime... That object does absolutely no harm or infringement to anyone or anything.

Your rights are only valid when they leave mine intact and the reverse applies...... because you confuse "Rights" with "Rules" you cannot fathom the very simple application of this true principle....

Let's slow-down. You can forbid me to breathe on your property. If I don't like it I can leave. If I refuse to leave you can throw me out physically. But you can't defend yourself unless an offensive at is committed against you.
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Consider castle doctrine. Do you have the right to throw me out of your house? But you don't have the right to do it if I'm armed?

 

[Bikenut]

I was only writing about "trespassing with a gun". I wasn't interested in a google definition or anyone's other info about trespassing. Because, I thought this was about guns! Silly me.

If you don't have permission to be on/in the property with a gun... then you do not have permission to be on/in the property and not having permission to be there IS the definition of "trespass". So in the case of a business with a no guns rule/policy it is about "trespassing with a gun" because having the gun is the criteria for not having the owner's permission.