One in chamber? Yes / No

[telpinaro]

And you actually asked the guy you quoted if he knows his firearms then you mention revolvers which are totally different then pistols in the way they feed and fire.Do you carry your revolvers with the hammer cocked?

I have about 15 gun manufacturers owners manuals laying around here and can't find one that suggests carrying with a loaded chamber. If you have one I'd be interested in seeing it.

Do you have any evidence of that happening? There are lots of newspaper articles about firearms owners having NDs and Glock Leg though.

I've never said how I carry because it isn't relevant to the discussion. My risk tolerance isn't the issue. The issue is that internet gunfighters have the opinion they are right and any dissenting opinion is wrong.

I have a DA/SA revolver and a Shield (DAO), and I'll carry either one. Sure, they function very differently, but in self defense you do the same thing: draw and pull the trigger. I'm avoiding anything SAO for now because of that. Even malfunction clearing is a no brainer... if there isn't a slide you can't rack it!

All the manufacturer manuals recommend the most safe method they can come up with. That way if an idiot uses their gun unsafely they can't be sued.

And risk tolerance is much more complicated for me... I wind up considering probability and damage potential. I don't carry because I might get robbed, I carry because I might get murdered. Not a very big probability, but the potential for damage is way more than losing my phone. By being safety conscious and using proper holsters and training, I lower the probability of a ND to next to nothing. Plus, I carry at 4:00, where the potential for damage is extremely embarrassing, but not likely to be lethal. Round chambered, always... revolver or semi-auto (whichever method it uses).

There, now wolf_fire doesn't have to reply at all! Think we've covered everything :wink:

 

[HD-kutz]

There was a video a couple pages back that showed a guy walk into a store and start shooting. One of the patrons had a gun and under stress was trying to rack a round into the chamber. He never could get it and eventually dies from multiple gunshots.

If you are referring to the blurry jewelry store robbery it has been analized by many and even enhanced it and can't come to that difinative conclusion. My point about owners manuals is if they are accurate on safeties like he said then why not on chambered rounds?

 

[dad45acp]

If you are referring to the blurry jewelry store robbery it has been analized by many and even enhanced it and can't come to that difinative conclusion. My point about owners manuals is if they are accurate on safeties like he said then why not on chambered rounds?

Why is the sky blue? Why do my farts stink? Why is Obama president?

Why do I carry a chambered round regardless of what a manual says or doesn't say? Because Im not going to die playing the victim. That's an easy one.

Sent from my hand-held mind distractor

 

[AndeyHall]

If you are referring to the blurry jewelry store robbery it has been analized by many and even enhanced it and can't come to that difinative conclusion. My point about owners manuals is if they are accurate on safeties like he said then why not on chambered rounds?

Well if the owners (safety) manual covers all things safety about the weapon, but it doesn't cover carrying chambered, then that tells me they consider it a user preference and not a safety issue.

 

[jcreek]

Well if the owners (safety) manual covers all things safety about the weapon, but it doesn't cover carrying chambered, then that tells me they consider it a user preference and not a safety issue.

Owner's manuals also say to never store a gun loaded. I'm willing to bet most people here keep at least one gun loaded at home. Owner's manuals are noting more than liability waivers for the manufacturers.

 

[K7lvo]

Everything in life is about the acceptance of risk. What is your level of acceptance. How many have been shot or property damaged by a ND with a chambered round? How many have been shot because they didn't have time to chamber a round?
By a show of hands how many here were in a situation where they absolutely needed that split second/? Don't see many hands.

Risk example: I owned tractor trailers all my life. I hauled in and out of **** holes across the US. Most of the drivers leased to the same company wouldn't assume the risk of being robbed, jumped or in an accident. I weighed the extra revenue and metro surcharges against the risk.
Neither of us was wrong we just have different levels of tolerance.

Do you often see dead people raise their hands? Because if they needed that split second, that's what they'd be. Dead.

 

[wolf_fire]

And you actually asked the guy you quoted if he knows his firearms then you mention revolvers which are totally different then pistols in the way they feed and fire.Do you carry your revolvers with the hammer cocked?


I have about 15 gun manufacturers owners manuals laying around here and can't find one that suggests carrying with a loaded chamber. If you have one I'd be interested in seeing it.


Do you have any evidence of that happening? There are lots of newspaper articles about firearms owners having NDs and Glock Leg though.


I've never said how I carry because it isn't relevant to the discussion. My risk tolerance isn't the issue. The issue is that internet gunfighters have the opinion they are right and any dissenting opinion is wrong.

When someone says they carry one semi auto one way and another a different way and the ONLY reason is the external safety switch, which every manufacturer says don't rely on, this makes absolutely no sense to me. Not sure how this is being an "Internet gun fighter". The other point I made is if you carry for self-defense and train in TWO completely different ways this is going to affect you adversely when you are in an adrenaline situation.

Now let's clarify some things you said:
- Of course I mentioned revolvers to make a point... the point is, any firearm not ready to be fired is just that NOT READY whether it be a semi auto or a revolver. The point I made was we don't keep one of the chambers empty in a revolver, why would you do so in the semi-auto. And no, I do not kick back the hammer, because it is not necessary with today's revolvers. It was in the cowboy days. But I don't have a revolver nearly that old, so that is a mute point. However if I did have one, the round would still be chambered now wouldn't it? Oh yeah, that was the point.
- I mentioned the manufacturers saying to not rely on the safety switch. Not sure why you said you couldn't find anything about carrying one in the chamber. My point was even the manufacturers say you should not rely on the safety switch, yet this guy will keep a round chambered with the Taurus (safety switch) but not the Glock (no safety switch)
- Evidence of what happening? Not having enough time to fire because one has put themselves in the needless situation of having to rack the slide. Yes, it's called the Tueller Drill based on much study into this very thing that you ask about. Please look it up. Granted if you can draw, rack, aim and shoot a round off in 1.5 seconds, more power to you, but why complicate things and be that much slower.

 

[wolf_fire]

He didn't but he did mention the manufacturer and the safety. I guess you get to pick and chose what you accept from the manufacturer. As far as the revolver comparison when you rack a glock it is technically at half cock and it takes very little in the way of clothing, holster catching or an errant finger to finish the firing.
Yep that's me a novice. Thank you for the advise.

Actually it takes anywhere from 5-12 lbs depending on the trigger spring that is installed in the Glock. Normally they come about 5 lbs, but there are 8 and 12 lb trigger springs that can be put in. Very little to fire? mmm, not buying that one either. Also, if you have that much excess clothing around your holster, or worse yet an "errant" finger, then you are being unsafe with your weapon. The weapon itself is not unsafe. Really? An errant finger? What; you don't know where your fingers are? Mine is always off the trigger, outside the trigger guard, at register on the frame until I am on target and have made the conscious decision to fire. If you have "errant fingers" I would suggest locking all your guns away and not touching them... EVER!

 

[HD-kutz]

There are compelling arguments on both sides of the issue. I have to laugh because I actually carry round in the chamber in both my G19 and in my 1911's. I am just not so narrow minded that I can't consider the other side. I have been around firearms most of my 60 years and have never had anybody tell me they knew of somebody that was hurt or killed because they were out drawn because they had an empty chamber. You can find dozens of articles on ND's and even find professionals with NDs.


The Thinking Gunfighter: THE MYTHS OF THE ISRAELI METHOD OF CARRY, or why carrying chamber empty isn?t so bad.
written by David Armstrong
Biography
Former soldier and police officer, currently teaching, training, and consulting with an emphasis on firearms training and research. Recognized by the courts as an expert witness in police training and tactics, firearms use, and DUI apprehension.
Location
Lake Charles, LA
Interests
Firearms research, emphasizing practical training and reality-based techniques.
Occupation
University Professor

 

[wolf_fire]

There are compelling arguments on both sides of the issue. I have to laugh because I actually carry round in the chamber in both my G19 and in my 1911's. I am just not so narrow minded that I can't consider the other side. I have been around firearms most of my 60 years and have never had anybody tell me they knew of somebody that was hurt or killed because they were out drawn because they had an empty chamber. You can find dozens of articles on ND's and even find professionals with NDs.


The Thinking Gunfighter: THE MYTHS OF THE ISRAELI METHOD OF CARRY, or why carrying chamber empty isn?t so bad.
written by David Armstrong
Biography
Former soldier and police officer, currently teaching, training, and consulting with an emphasis on firearms training and research. Recognized by the courts as an expert witness in police training and tactics, firearms use, and DUI apprehension.
Location
Lake Charles, LA
Interests
Firearms research, emphasizing practical training and reality-based techniques.
Occupation
University Professor

First of all, I'm not narrow minded in considering not having a round chambered. To suggest so after giving the feedback you have requested is just ignorant on your part and it is now plainly obvious you'd rather pick a fight than actually discuss something on a discussion forum.

Here's my thoughts on it. If I thought for one second that I would handle my gun in such an unsafe manner that I could have a negligent discharge, then I would not carry my firearm with one chambered. In fact, if i thought I was that unsafe, I would not carry at all. Note that term is "negligent" discharge. This means one has done something unsafe to cause this to happen. Don't do anything unsafe with your firearm and the firearm doesn't go boom. It's really that simple.

Since I take safety of firearms extremely seriously I do not see the "loose clothing" or the "errant finger" happening. You see, I have stayed on topic, I have answered your questions. You... you don't respond to the feedback that you seem to desire. You bring up the one well-known military that carries like this. Nearly all other military forces do not carry like this all the time.. of course this depends on the ROE. Why?... their firearm is not ready to go.

 

[dallascarry]

A compromse, or concession?

I currently have two pistols I carry concealed, a S&W SD40 and my BUG is a Ruger LCP.380.

Do any of you carry your concealed pistol(s) with a round in the chamber? Currently I do not. I am curious if many others do, and if so give your reasoning on the safety aspect.

Thanks in advance.

First, I'm a newbie on this site and have just recently started carrying again after years living in various nanny states. Decades ago, I was a competition shooter and automatically obsessively safety aware, but I thought nothing of carrying a wheel gun fully loaded. But that old S&W .38 could be dropped on the hammer and not go off! (I know because I did once!) Please consider my limited "modern" experience when addressing this issue.

Recently I started carrying a Ruger SR45 and when I first parked it and an "inside the pants" holster in the small of my back, the pipe was empty. I realize that could have been a problem in a critical situation. I accept that the "unloaded" handgun would have done me little good until I racked that first round. But I was also unfamiliar with the weapon. Until I learned how easily the safety moved, what the trigger was really like, how fast I could rack it and how quickly I could "safe" the weapon, I did not want to risk an accidental discharge.

Now that .45 has 10 in the mag and one in the pipe whenever I go out. It took a while for me to be comfortable with how the weapon handled. It took over 200 rounds at the range, over 4 different trips, for me to feel I knew what this gun can do and not do. But that is me.

Another person carrying a different weapon might properly make different choices. I compromised a few weeks of optimum readiness for my personal comfort and I would hope anyone else carrying a concealed weapon out there has also considered their familiarity with a weapon and their situation when deciding such a safety issue.

 

[HD-kutz]

Wolf you don't read my comments so I'll explain them s l o w l y.

I mentioned the manufacturer because another person did in relation to safeties. If he believes the manufacturer in that regard then why not when the manufacturer says it does no recommend carrying round in chamber? Yes I know the standard answer "it's a liability issue"

I never refereed to an unintended discharge as an AD. ND is the term I used because an AD would require an equipment failure that couldn't be predicted. Most people that have had a ND felt they were safe and didn't intend for it to happen and many are experienced firearms people. When a person says "never" I worry. I have trained dozens of people in the handling and transport of hazmat and if they said "never" I would probably fail them.

Modern DA revolvers really don't compare but many that play with revolvers like SA army carry hammer down on an empty chamber. Revolvers aren't an issue here but I didn't bring them up first.

Did you fully read the Dave Armstrong link I posted? He makes some valid points.

I haven't seen any evidence that people have been hurt of killed because they didn't have a chambered round except the jewelry store robbery and he may have had an issue with his weapon. There are plenty of NDs in the paper though.

This discussion is like a dog chasing it's tale for all involved. Even if you catch it what are you gonna do with it so I'll bow out and concede to your wisdom.

 

[wolf_fire]

Wolf you don't read my comments so I'll explain them s l o w l y.

I mentioned the manufacturer because another person did in relation to safeties. If he believes the manufacturer in that regard then why not when the manufacturer says it does no recommend carrying round in chamber? Yes I know the standard answer "it's a liability issue"

I never refereed to an unintended discharge as an AD. ND is the term I used because an AD would require an equipment failure that couldn't be predicted. Most people that have had a ND felt they were safe and didn't intend for it to happen and many are experienced firearms people. When a person says "never" I worry. I have trained dozens of people in the handling and transport of hazmat and if they said "never" I would probably fail them.

Modern DA revolvers really don't compare but many that play with revolvers like SA army carry hammer down on an empty chamber. Revolvers aren't an issue here but I didn't bring them up first.

Did you fully read the Dave Armstrong link I posted? He makes some valid points.

I haven't seen any evidence that people have been hurt of killed because they didn't have a chambered round except the jewelry store robbery and he may have had an issue with his weapon. There are plenty of NDs in the paper though.

This discussion is like a dog chasing it's tale for all involved. Even if you catch it what are you gonna do with it so I'll bow out and concede to your wisdom.

I am absolutely befuddled at your lack of understanding a conversation that I am done responding to you. No matter how I try to explain what my points are you go on these wild tangents and try to make me seem like I don't know what my original points were. I assure you, I have perfect understanding of what I said, why I said it and what my points were. I also have perfect understanding that you got none of them.

Have fun talking with yourself.

 

[Tom87GN]

To answer the original question simply, I chamber a round when I have the gun with me and my children are not going to be around in the near future. When the gun is by my side or with me and my kids are home or with me, I don't chamber a round. Currently, my wife and I are the only ones in our family who have enough strength to rack the gun and get one in the chamber. My kids are too young.

My daughter is old enough to point it at her face and pull with her thumbs at this point in her life (2 1/2 going on 3 years old) but not old enough to understand why she shouldn't touch it EVER. I just can't bring myself to keep the gun nearby with one in the chamber if she has any way of accessing it. Keeping it near enough in case of a situation but keeping it safe for her are combating each other every day for me.

Just having it with the accessibility to rack one in the chamber quickly is enough piece of mind for me currently. I know the pros and cons of not chambering, but I'd rather my daughter not shoot herself or anyone else. It's all up to me and my decisions, and if there is an accident, it will be my fault.

 

[BluesStringer]

To answer the original question simply, I chamber a round when I have the gun with me and my children are not going to be around in the near future. When the gun is by my side or with me and my kids are home or with me, I don't chamber a round. Currently, my wife and I are the only ones in our family who have enough strength to rack the gun and get one in the chamber. My kids are too young.

My daughter is old enough to point it at her face and pull with her thumbs at this point in her life (2 1/2 going on 3 years old) but not old enough to understand why she shouldn't touch it EVER. I just can't bring myself to keep the gun nearby with one in the chamber if she has any way of accessing it. Keeping it near enough in case of a situation but keeping it safe for her are combating each other every day for me.

Just having it with the accessibility to rack one in the chamber quickly is enough piece of mind for me currently. I know the pros and cons of not chambering, but I'd rather my daughter not shoot herself or anyone else. It's all up to me and my decisions, and if there is an accident, it will be my fault.

I think anyone paying attention assumes that the question relates to actually carrying a weapon, not leaving it sitting around where kids could get to it. That said though, you also say you would leave it un-chambered for the same reason (access by a 2 1/2 year old) even if you are carrying and the child is with you.

If your holster and/or situational awareness is such that the retention and/or your own cognizance of what's going on around you could not prevent a 2 1/2 year old from gaining access to your weapon while you're carrying it, what's going to happen when a full grown bad guy, who does have the strength to rack the slide, gets to it?

The answer to that question will be the same long after your daughter is grown.

I think carrying "Israeli style" is a very poor tactical decision, but the rationale some people offer for doing it is beyond my ability to understand as being very well thought out (to put it as politely as I can).

Blues

 

[Rocketgeezer]

When you have young children around that are to small to understand, your gun needs to be on your hip or in a safe, and if it is on your hip it still needs to be cocked and locked,

 

[Tom87GN]

I think anyone paying attention assumes that the question relates to actually carrying a weapon, not leaving it sitting around where kids could get to it. That said though, you also say you would leave it un-chambered for the same reason (access by a 2 1/2 year old) even if you are carrying and the child is with you.

If your holster and/or situational awareness is such that the retention and/or your own cognizance of what's going on around you could not prevent a 2 1/2 year old from gaining access to your weapon while you're carrying it, what's going to happen when a full grown bad guy, who does have the strength to rack the slide, gets to it?

The answer to that question will be the same long after your daughter is grown.

I think carrying "Israeli style" is a very poor tactical decision, but the rationale some people offer for doing it is beyond my ability to understand as being very well thought out (to put it as politely as I can).

Blues

Look, I don't just leave the gun laying around on the couch or the floor. I'm not that careless, but thanks for the opinion. If it is not on me, then it is out of reach of our small children or locked away.

With that said, I am learning the "right and wrong" here but just getting my feet wet in this forum. I am a first-time gun owner and do not have years of experience like most of the others on this site. I probably should have indicated that when I posted, but I figured everyone would know I was a noob by the way I spoke and also by the lack of posts on this forum.

I receive your opinion and your comments and thank you for even caring to respond.

 

[AndeyHall]

Look, I don't just leave the gun laying around on the couch or the floor. I'm not that careless, but thanks for the opinion. If it is not on me, then it is out of reach of our small children or locked away.

With that said, I am learning the "right and wrong" here but just getting my feet wet in this forum. I am a first-time gun owner and do not have years of experience like most of the others on this site. I probably should have indicated that when I posted, but I figured everyone would know I was a noob by the way I spoke and also by the lack of posts on this forum.

I receive your opinion and your comments and thank you for even caring to respond.

A good thing to consider is YouTubing something like "police weapon retention practice" or something like that and learn the various ways to retain your weapon when you feel it being manipulated by another person. It usually requires giving the person (possibly child) a good hit, but it beats them getting your gun and hurting themselves or someone else.

EDIT: I just did a quick search for "police weapon retention training" and got several good hits. Just make sure you concentrate on the ones that involve the gun already being in the holster. But you might alway want to learn all the tactics for when your gun is drawn just for your general knowledge too.

And another thing I would do is buy a fake weapon like the blue guns and use those. Even if you know it's empty, it's not a good idea to practice on a live gun. And most of the practices require 2 people so get the wife involved

 

[XD40scinNC]

The irony there is that I'm much more comfortable with a round chambered and ready to go in a gun with no safety and just a safe-action trigger than I am in a gun with a hammer and all the safeties like a 1911. That doesn't stop me from carrying chambered in either one though

I don't like a gun with a hammer or thumb safety either, thus I carry (chambered) either a XDsc or XDS, safety assurance trigger and grip safety.

 

[Airbrush Artist]

Chambered!

I currently have two pistols I carry concealed, a S&W SD40 and my BUG is a Ruger LCP.380.

Do any of you carry your concealed pistol(s) with a round in the chamber? Currently I do not. I am curious if many others do, and if so give your reasoning on the safety aspect.

Thanks in advance.

Go on You Tube and type in Armed robbery and Watch and count the times a Robber racks a slide before he does His Business of Robbing and threatening peoples
lives. That should settle the issue of having one in the chamber, Your Welcome!