Open carry confrontation at a Rest Stop

[BC1]

there is one big flaw in his statement, the population of NYS is closer to 20 million, he can't arbitrarily ignore 40% of the states population because it doesn't make his statements look factual.

The total population of NYS is about 19 million. However, we were discussing state permits, not NYC permits (post #16). NYC does not honor NYS permits and has its own permit system and laws. So NYS permits only apply to the 11 million people living outside of NYC. Sooooo, between 1 in 8 -or- 9 residents outside of NYC have a permit.
.

could you back this up with reliable data?

Where is your response to the actual data? You called me out. You wanted it and I gave it. You can't acknowledge it can you?

 

[Axeanda45]

Back on topic. Here is some proof open carry is allowed on (and in) state property:

This is in the Michigan State Capitol. :yes4:

Awesome! I love the clear/see-through magazine....

 

[Johnny Dollar]

Awesome! I love the clear/see-through magazine....

Ok, serious question what do you get out of walking around like that? I don’t see that the gun is positioned for self defense (maybe I’m wrong) so it wouldn’t be any good for that. So why do it? What does it accomplish?

 

[Bikenut]

Ok, serious question what do you get out of walking around like that? I don’t see that the gun is positioned for self defense (maybe I’m wrong) so it wouldn’t be any good for that. So why do it? What does it accomplish?

What does it accomplish? It lets ordinary people know that "we the people" have the right to bear arms and that, if they want to, they can do it too. It also counteracts all the hype and propaganda about how terrible those so called assault rifles are when people see that folks can carry them around and ... gosh... nothing bad happens!

One other positive is that it pisses off the anti gunners by showing them right there "in their faces" that they are not important enough to be in control of how the right to bear arms is exercised. Actually I kinda like this one since I find it humorous to watch an anti gunner get all red in the face and self importantly puff all up (or try to ridicule/insult on the internet) when faced with the undeniable proof... right there "in their faces".... they just are not as important as they think they are... and there are people who know just how unimportant that anti gunner really is. Kinda hurts their ego.

 

[Johnny Dollar]

One other positive is that it pisses off the anti gunners by showing them right there "in their faces" that they are not important enough to be in control of how the right to bear arms is exercised.

That's the problem right there if you're walking around like that looking to piss people off (which is exactly what the antis say you guys are doing) then you will get a reaction and it just might be the reaction they got in California or the reaction they Got in Colorado when some Yo Yo started showing up at city council meeting with a shotgun, third time he did it the city banned open carry in city owned buildings.

I don't necessarily agree with your other points but this one is going to cause some trouble sooner or later

One other positive is that it pisses off the anti gunners by showing them right there "in their faces" that they are not important enough to be in control of how the right to bear arms is exercised. Actually I kinda like this one since I find it humorous to watch an anti gunner get all red in the face and self importantly puff all up (or try to ridicule/insult on the internet) when faced with the undeniable proof... right there "in their faces".... they just are not as important as they think they are... and there are people who know just how unimportant that anti gunner really is. Kinda hurts their ego.

 

[apvbguy]

There should never be any "list" or "record" of who carries guns/has guns. I personally find the very idea of invading a person's privacy first by keeping a record of who has/carries guns and, even more egregious, making their names and addresses available to the general public.

his local newspaper owned by gannet published the names and addresses of all the CCW permit holders in his county

 

[apvbguy]

The total population of NYS is about 19 million. However, we were discussing state permits, not NYC permits (post #16). NYC does not honor NYS permits and has its own permit system and laws. So NYS permits only apply to the 11 million people living outside of NYC.
.

Where is your response to the actual data? You called me out. You wanted it and I gave it. You can't acknowledge it can you?

your actual data is skewed, you are ignoring 2/3 of the states population when you ignore NYC, Nassau, Suffolk and Westchester couunties.

Sooooo, between 1 in 8 -or- 9 residents outside of NYC have a permit.

nice try but I will not let you get away with that deflection.
you originally stated that 1 in 8 people in NYS have a concealed carry permit,
I called BS on that fallacy now now your trying to qualify your inaccurate statement just will not fly.

 

[Johnny Dollar]

your actual data is skewed, you are ignoring 2/3 of the states population when you ignore NYC, Nassau, Suffolk and Westchester couunties.

Now wait a second he said there are different permit requirements in that part of NY so the numbers are going to skew no matter what

 

[BC1]

your actual data is skewed, you are ignoring 2/3 of the states population when you ignore NYC, Nassau, Suffolk and Westchester couunties.

nice try but I will not let you get away with that deflection.
you originally stated that 1 in 8 people in NYS have a concealed carry permit,
I called BS on that fallacy now now your trying to qualify your inaccurate statement just will not fly.

Read post #16. We've been talking about NYS permits from the very start, not NYC. NYC has its own laws. State permits are not recognized by NYC. NYC permits are not recognized by NYS. Nowhere is NYC mentioned in my posts. NYC permits aren't included in the numbers, nor is the total NYC population. I'm 100% correct.
.
Once again, read post #16 below. We've been talking about NYS. Period.
.

I call BS. NY accent? Give me a break. You know those damn people in NY... they all talk the same, act the same and espouse the same views. That's why 1 out of every 8 people in NYS has a CCW permit. What?

I understand that you may not know the city has their own permit system and gun laws, separate from the state, thus we don't ever include them. One could see where you might think to include those hacks in our numbers so its an acceptable misunderstanding.
.
Regardless, one must concede NYS has 1.2 million state issued permits in 11 million residents. That's a lot of CCW permits. So, wouldn't it be safe to say that any state where 1 in 8 residents (of 11 million people) have a CCW permit is populated by pro-gun residents? I'm not qualifying my answer or framing it in any different light.
.
Its clear you don't like me, but that doesn't change the numbers. Some people maintain the perception that all the people of NYS are anti-gun. While the city is clearly anti-gun the state permit numbers show that outside of NYC the people are pretty much like anywhere else. They just don't have enough votes to change the legislative body along party lines. I also think this is coming to more states as large cities tend to be more democrat/liberal, and they're growing faster than the suburbs.

 

[unintentionalracist]

Awesome! I love the clear/see-through magazine....

I love the fact that its a Sig Sauer.

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2

 

[dogshawred]

It amazes me that people don't consider NYC as being in NYS. NYC is part and parcel of NYS, always has been and always will be, maybe. It doesn't matter that either don't recognize each others permits. NYC is still inside the boundaries of the State of New York and is therefore considered part of the state as a whole.
~
Keeping this in mind I am drawn to all the comments on this forum about NYers voting history overruling upstate voters. This would not be the case if NYC wasn't part of NYS.

 

[BC1]

It amazes me that people don't consider NYC as being in NYS. NYC is part and parcel of NYS, always has been and always will be, maybe. It doesn't matter that either don't recognize each others permits. NYC is still inside the boundaries of the State of New York and is therefore considered part of the state as a whole.
~
Keeping this in mind I am drawn to all the comments on this forum about NYers voting history overruling upstate voters. This would not be the case if NYC wasn't part of NYS.

Yes of course, it is part of NYS. But when discussing state issued permits NYC is not considered because the state permit is not valid in NYC. You must get a NYC permit under their law. And the NYC permit is not valid anywhere outside the boundaries of NYC. A NYC resident may not obtain a NYS CCW permit. No state honors a NYC permit, even NYS. So when we quote state permit statistics we don't include permits issued in NYC, thus we don't include the population in the numbers. NYC isolated themselves long ago by codifying into the state penal law various provisions (Article 400) that exempt them from certain state laws. One is guns and permits. A sticky situation for sure. State residents have been jailed for carrying their gun into the cesspool.
.
Most of us are ashamed of NYC and try our best to distance ourselves from that stench. We focus on our own populace which is very different in beliefs and views. The point of my posts has always been to get folks to understand that outside of the city we're different than the pavement pounders. We're more in-line with rural America. I think 1.2 million CCW permits in 11 million residents shows we're different than people who live in the stink-hole.

 

[apvbguy]

Now wait a second he said there are different permit requirements in that part of NY so the numbers are going to skew no matter what

read for comprehension, he claimed 1 in 8 people in New York State had ccw permits, he didn't say 1 in 8 people in NYS outside of NYC, he's tried to peddle this BS in the past I called BS then as I did now, he then tries to qualify the statement, he needs to learn to post accurate data or he can expect to be called on it.

 

[BC1]

Jonny, just ignore the responses. I feel like I'm arguing with the kids for Christ sake. Kid says he didn't eat the chocolate and he sticks to his story despite it being all over his hands and mouth. Some people won't accept a fact even when its handed to them.

 

[Bikenut]

A portion of my response is contained within the post below in blue

Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
One other positive is that it pisses off the anti gunners by showing them right there "in their faces" that they are not important enough to be in control of how the right to bear arms is exercised.

That's the problem right there if you're walking around like that looking to piss people off (which is exactly what the antis say you guys are doing) then you will get a reaction and it just might be the reaction they got in California or the reaction they Got in Colorado when some Yo Yo started showing up at city council meeting with a shotgun, third time he did it the city banned open carry in city owned buildings.

Interesting how you managed to assume the folks walking around with long guns were doing it just to piss people off. I said I liked it because it pisses of anti gunners... and it would piss off anti gunners regardless of the reason it was done. But because it pisses you off you also assume anyone actually gives a crap if anti gunners get pissed off. Actually if the anti gunners are getting pissed off then the pro gunners are doing something right.

I don't necessarily agree with your other points but this one is going to cause some trouble sooner or later

Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
One other positive is that it pisses off the anti gunners by showing them right there "in their faces" that they are not important enough to be in control of how the right to bear arms is exercised. Actually I kinda like this one since I find it humorous to watch an anti gunner get all red in the face and self importantly puff all up (or try to ridicule/insult on the internet) when faced with the undeniable proof... right there "in their faces".... they just are not as important as they think they are... and there are people who know just how unimportant that anti gunner really is. Kinda hurts their ego.

And exactly what kind of trouble is pissing off anti gunners going to cause? Will they rise up and get more restrictive gun control laws passed? Got news for you... the anti gunners have been doing that for years but now that they are getting some actual resistance that the general public is looking friendly on the anti gunners are getting pissed off. Why? Because like any 2 year old throwing a tantrum they aren't getting their way.

 

[maybejim]

If in doubt just check the statistics provided by the state. They're relatively easy to find. Example... Orange county, population 370,000; CCW permits - 39,000.

How many in the high population New York City?

 

[RxDoc]

Who gives a damn about the number of permit owners in or outside of NYC or state? An argument started over a comment about a NY accent. Give it up Gentlemen, as they say, "never argue with an idiot, a bystander won't be able to figure out who the idiot is".

 

[maybejim]

Who gives a damn about the number of permit owners in or outside of NYC or state? An argument started over a comment about a NY accent. Give it up Gentlemen, as they say, "never argue with an idiot, a bystander won't be able to figure out who the idiot is".

So the argument about NY was false. Do you also doubt that the majority of New Yorkers are anti-gun? The upstaters are a different breed from NYC but the numbers are with NYC. You are familiar with the new gun laws in NY are you not? It is reasonable to associate a NY accent with an anti-gun attitude just like it is reasonable to associate a Kaliornian with the same attitude. Most stereotypes are for a reason. Doesn't mean its always true, but it's the way to bet if you're a betting man.

 

[RxDoc]

I don't know whether the comment was false or not, nor your assertion that most NYs are anti-gun by said reason. And NO, it is not reasonable to associate an accent with anything, regardless of matter or association. I personally don't believe in "stereotypes" per se, and if you do, it just portrays your character. You actually answered your own doubt, nothing can be said to be always true by inaccurate impressions.

 

[BC1]

How many in the high population New York City?

The numbers aren't available for NYC permit holders. They don't publish them or provide them to the state.
.
Let's rephrase the entire thing for clarity...
.
NYS, outside of NYC has 11 million residents. Effective 12/31/2010 there were 1.2 million state-issued permits in that population. Persons residing in NYC are not issued NYS permits. In conclusion, outside of the NYC population, roughly 1 in 8 persons (out of 11 million) has a CCW permit. Anyone who doubts this can give me an email address and I'll forward the entire list of persons with a CCW in NYS. 1.2 million names on that list as o 2010.
.
There. Nice and tidy.