I know some of you are going to bash me
- Thread starter itsb
- Start date
Don't listen to bike nut if your state gives you the legal right to carry concealed in a store that has a sign that states "no weapons" then you have the legal right to carry concealed on their property. They won't be kicking you off their property because they won't know that you are going against their wishes. The reason you have the"right" to carry concealed on their property is you have the force of law supporting your 2nd adm. Right to be armed, and the law makers in your state made the law to give you permission to carry concealed legally on private property because they determined that in these circumstances your 2nd adm. Rights were more important then store owners 4th adm. Rights. You know based upon bike nut understanding of the 4th adm. a business owner would have the right to kick a black man off their property because they had a sign that stated "no blacks allowed". You guys do know there use to be those types of signs right. But laws were passed stating that business owners could not do that. I guess based on bike nuts interpreting of the 4th adm. That back in those days if a black person that was light skinned went into that business they would be dishonoring the store owners property right? Even though the store owner was dishonoring black people's right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
Firefighterchen
OC for Tactical Advantage
Wait, so they can't charge me for trespassing if they find out I'm carrying because they have no force of law behind them saying I am not allowed to carry in there? Please, keep telling me about how all those stories of gun owners being kicked out are all made up.
And while your at it, you can keep telling me how I was hallucinating every time I saw someone get detained and searched at the grocery store without police presence, and by golly never was sued! That's inconceivable!
AndeyHall
Active member
They do have force of law, and it is on the books prohibiting it. But it also says the maximum penalty is a $250 fine. I'll take it.
No they can not legally walk up to you in their business, while you are shopping (now if you are stealing stuff that's different but were not talking about that) and search you!!! The big box membership clubs like Costco are different since in the contract you signed when you joined you relinquished that right by signing their contract. But let's say your in some weird grocery store that randomly searches law abiding customers while they are shopping and you allow them to search you, and while they are feeling down the front of your pants, they find you are carrying a gun. They can ask you to leave their property, if you refuse to leave because you want to now stay in the store and have them check your crouch again. Then they have the right to call the Police, when the Police arrive they will ask you if you failed to leave the property after the owner told you to leave his property. If you say yes you can be arrested for trespassing if the owner then tells the officer he wants to press charges (doubt that would happen since after that second search you and the owner might already be in love) if you say no I was not told to leave and I thought I was being detained and molested by the owner and his employees, and since there is no evidence you did anything illegal you could file charges against the business owner and his employees. Now since no MAN is going to allow a unlawful search, make the person your wife that went to firefighter chins grocery store, and while shopping and picking up some yogurt, firefighter comes over and starts groping your wife to see if she is carrying concealed (which is not against the law) now who do you really think is going to jail?
Not in Nevada! You need to move.
B
Bikenut
Guest
Ok... now you are grasping at the lefty liberal tactic of playing the race card hoping that will bolster your argument.
Dude... epic FAIL.
AndeyHall
Active member
If I move anywhere solely for gun rights it'd be to Utah. They allow CC on college campuses.
Bike nut don't want to waste anymore of my time with you. Think I now know why others have not either. You really think I am going to spend my time copying laws on to this site to show you why this site even exists? You know "USA Carry" like laws in different states that give us the ability to carry legally (yes on even private property). When a point is made that you can't defend, you resort to calling me some lefty and you won't discuss. I bet you think the earth is only a few thousand years old. Trading posts with you has to be lowering my IQ.
That would work, or like you first posted if the only penalty is a fine
go for it, doubt you would get even fined one time if your concealed carry choice is a good one. Good luck!
AndeyHall
Active member
Eh, given recent events, I'm not so sure they would be so lenient with someone carrying at a school. I think there is a stiffer penalty for that also.
That would work, or like you first posted if the only penalty is a fine
I know here in Nevada that even with a carry permit you can not have a gun even in your car if you are anywhere on school property. Problem is if you are picking up your kid cops are running plates, which tell them if you have a carry permit (which would lead them to believe you had a gun on you or in your vehicle). I was talking to a fire arms instructor that said he knew of a guy that was engaged in conversation by a cop while he was waiting outside in his car for his kid to come out of the school. The cop stated that he knew the guy had a concealed carry permit, while they were chatting, then asked the guy if he was carrying. The guy was smart enough to state that even though he had a permit, he would never bring one onto school property. If he would of said I don't have my gun on me but I have it locked up in the glove box, that's a felony. A good lesson know all the gun laws where ever you live and travel, or you could always ask bike nut for advise
.
Firefighterchen
OC for Tactical Advantage
Would you like a tissue with that tantrum? I'm serious, you should see if you have borderline intellectual functioning. You somehow got private property employees and public employees mixed up despite I all ready brought up those differences. Good job
way to fail I thought you said you had the force of law behind your 2a, they CAN'T trespass you for carrying a firearm? Oh wait...nope your wrong...they CAN trespass you for carrying a firearm onto their property.
And though you like to imagine men groping your genitals during a search, the grocery stores never needed to perform that police molestation style search. I don't want to collapse your precious world, but there were plenty of people that were searched but not fined, nor did they sue. But it's ok, just breathe, everything will be all right.
AndeyHall
Active member
They just passed it here in SC a few years back that you can have a gun in a locked or attended vehicle as long as it is in the glove box, center console, or trunk if you have your CWP. However a lot of LEOs are not aware of this law, and still believe it to be illegal. I keep a print out of SC's gun laws straight from SLEDs website in my truck. That way if they say anything I can cover my ass. I also did that in case they tried to say anything about me not notifying that I am a CWP holder, I can show them where the law says I don't have to.
I know here in Nevada that even with a carry permit you can not have a gun even in your car if you are anywhere on school property. Problem is if you are picking up your kid cops are running plates, which tell them if you have a carry permit (which would lead them to believe you had a gun on you or in your vehicle). I was talking to a fire arms instructor that said he knew of a guy that was engaged in conversation by a cop while he was waiting outside in his car for his kid to come out of the school. The cop stated that he knew the guy had a concealed carry permit, while they were chatting, then asked the guy if he was carrying. The guy was smart enough to state that even though he had a permit, he would never bring one onto school property. If he would of said I don't have my gun on me but I have it locked up in the glove box, that's a felony. A good lesson know all the gun laws where ever you live and travel, or you could always ask bike nut for advise
But the best way to avoid the situation you described is to simply never talk to an on-duty police officer. It's very easy to say something incriminating or answer one of their manipulatively asked questions in a way that will incriminate you. Any time they ask me about my guns or CWP, unless I'm legally obligated to answer such as when my gun is on my person, I just tell them that I respectfully refuse to answer. From that point on, my attitude is a direct reflection of their attitude. I can play smart-ass with the best of 'em.
Would you like a tissue with that tantrum? I'm serious, you should see if you have borderline intellectual functioning. You somehow got private property employees and public employees mixed up despite I all ready brought up those differences. Good job
I thought you said you had the force of law behind your 2a, they CAN'T trespass you for carrying a firearm? Oh wait...nope your wrong...they CAN trespass you for carrying a firearm onto their property.
And though you like to imagine men groping your genitals during a search, the grocery stores never needed to perform that police molestation style search. I don't want to collapse your precious world, but there were plenty of people that were searched but not fined, nor did they sue. But it's ok, just breathe, everything will be all right.
Do you always resort to name calling when you are proven wrong? Let me try and make it simpler, maybe this will help? Maybe not. Concealed means concealed!!! Owner of property can ask a customer to leave, if you refuse to leave police can be called and if you continue in front of a LEO to refuse to leave you are now committing trespass and can be arrested. Now try and envision this senero - you walk into a business with a CCW permit and a concealed weapon. The owner has a sign on the door that says no fire arms allowed. You shop buy some merchandise, pay for it and leave. You broke no laws. Now just to let you know if I am in a business and you as an employee physically assault me by putting your hands on me in an attempt to search me you just broke the law and can be arrested for assault. Now if you open carry in a Taco Bell that has a no guns sign you will be asked to leave since they see your gun and if you don't leave you are then trespassing. Now if you go into a store and shoplift and they see you and (better yet) tape you putting merchandise in your bag and trying to leave with it (based on the proprietorship law in most states) they can detain you call the police and you will be arrested. When it comes to searching someone you open yourself up to all kinds of potential legal problems even if you have them on tape stealing. Example as a LEO if I arrested a female subject, after I cuffed her I would radio for a female officer to come to my location to search her. To make this a little more personal for you for perspective. If your wife went to your grocery store and an employee took her into the back room and searched her body, what do you think would end up being the outcome of that encounter? If it was me were talkin assault charges and a lawsuit. I hope you now understand what I am saying? Now I know you worked in a grocery store and I was only a Commissioned law enforcement officer, so you probably know more about the law then I do but I really think I am right about what I just wrote. If you don't agree still then instead of questioning my intelligents let's just agree to disagree.
I've been on both sides and I totally agree with you.
Firefighterchen
OC for Tactical Advantage
Would you like a tissue with that tantrum? I'm serious, you should see if you have borderline intellectual functioning. You somehow got private property employees and public employees mixed up despite I all ready brought up those differences. Good job
I thought you said you had the force of law behind your 2a, they CAN'T trespass you for carrying a firearm? Oh wait...nope your wrong...they CAN trespass you for carrying a firearm onto their property.
And though you like to imagine men groping your genitals during a search, the grocery stores never needed to perform that police molestation style search. I don't want to collapse your precious world, but there were plenty of people that were searched but not fined, nor did they sue. But it's ok, just breathe, everything will be all right.
Do you always resort to name calling when you are proven wrong? Let me try and make it simpler, maybe this will help? Maybe not. Concealed means concealed!!! Owner of property can ask a customer to leave, if you refuse to leave police can be called and if you continue in front of a LEO to refuse to leave you are now committing trespass and can be arrested. Now try and envision this senero - you walk into a business with a CCW permit and a concealed weapon. The owner has a sign on the door that says no fire arms allowed. You shop buy some merchandise, pay for it and leave. You broke no laws. Now just to let you know if I am in a business and you as an employee physically assault me by putting your hands on me in an attempt to search me you just broke the law and can be arrested for assault. Now if you open carry in a Taco Bell that has a no guns sign you will be asked to leave since they see your gun and if you don't leave you are then trespassing. Now if you go into a store and shoplift and they see you and (better yet) tape you putting merchandise in your bag and trying to leave with it (based on the proprietorship law in most states) they can detain you call the police and you will be arrested. When it comes to searching someone you open yourself up to all kinds of potential legal problems even if you have them on tape stealing. Example as a LEO if I arrested a female subject, after I cuffed her I would radio for a female officer to come to my location to search her. To make this a little more personal for you for perspective. If your wife went to your grocery store and an employee took her into the back room and searched her body, what do you think would end up being the outcome of that encounter? If it was me were talkin assault charges and a lawsuit. I hope you now understand what I am saying? Now I know you worked in a grocery store and I was only a Commissioned law enforcement officer, so you probably know more about the law then I do but I really think I am right about what I just wrote. If you don't agree still then instead of questioning my intelligents let's just agree to disagree.
Where is the name calling? I don't see a single name in my quoted post...You must be doing what all the other police officers I've worked with have done, make **** up. Nice, very nice!
You posted you have the force of law, that your 2a trumps their 4a. Bikenut asked to see that law, which you have failed to produce, because it doesn't exist. How then, can an open carrier be told to leave if his 2a trumps? Maybe because just like all the other officers I've known, they don't know the laws, as there are far too many to remember. The difference between them and you, they don't let it get to their head, at least they know their limitations. If the 2a truly trumped the private property owners rights they could not kick you out for carrying a firearm, but THEY CAN. Just because your hiding it, doesn't make it right, in fact it makes you no better than any one else trying to trump others rights.
As far as searching people on private property goes, you were a cop got it, you think like a cop got it. I was not a cop, but I worked in the private sector, and I did do searches, and I was never sued, nor was any of my co-workers, over hundreds of searches just at my store alone. So, keep thinking like a cop, I'm content with being in the real world, why my private property rights actually mean something.
Where is the name calling? I don't see a single name in my quoted post...You must be doing what all the other police officers I've worked with have done, make **** up. Nice, very nice!
You posted you have the force of law, that your 2a trumps their 4a. Bikenut asked to see that law, which you have failed to produce, because it doesn't exist. How then, can an open carrier be told to leave if his 2a trumps? Maybe because just like all the other officers I've known, they don't know the laws, as there are far too many to remember. The difference between them and you, they don't let it get to their head, at least they know their limitations. If the 2a truly trumped the private property owners rights they could not kick you out for carrying a firearm, but THEY CAN. Just because your hiding it, doesn't make it right, in fact it makes you no better than any one else trying to trump others rights.
As far as searching people on private property goes, you were a cop got it, you think like a cop got it. I was not a cop, but I worked in the private sector, and I did do searches, and I was never sued, nor was any of my co-workers, over hundreds of searches just at my store alone. So, keep thinking like a cop, I'm content with being in the real world, why my private property rights actually mean something.
You sound like someone with very little education, not very soficated and likes to argue on the Internet. I also must like to argue on the Internet or I would not keep arguing with you. But i have never found such stupidy from two people before i found you and old wing nut. Ok show me the law that says it is illegal for me to carry concealed on posted private property in Nevada? Also show me the law that gives you the right to search someone who is shopping at your place of business?
If the guy carrying the gun was breaking the law he would be arrested for a weapons violation. Like you said he was asked to leave. Just like someone not wearing shoes or a shirt could be asked to leave if there was a sign saying no shirt or shoes, the store owner can ask someone to leave for almost any reason. If they don't leave after they were asked to leave then they would be trespassing. You really don't get it do you?
You and I and everyone else knows that you can't go around searching customers that are shopping in a store. Actually as a cop I have more of a right to search then you as a civilian, if I put you under arrest. When one civilian puts their hands on another civilian without their permission that is assault. I don't care if you and Gomer use to feel up the shop lifters in the backroom that does not make it legal, if they had not committed a crime they could/should of pressed charges and sued your store. Ignorant people like you break the laws of this land everyday, that does not mean you were within your rights as a business employee.
