Best Self-Defense Load for .380
- Thread starter USN2Pulpit
- Start date
Lol welcome to the forums, I wasn't calling you out personally, but just a general statement to all who come across the the instructor known as Rich_S. But, you basically nailed it on the head. Doesn't take too long to see itI didn't want to mention that particular state, as there are others that are from there that do indeed have some good input...but yes I guess it is important to note the Mass Mentality that Rich_S has.
Many thanks for the welcome. Been on forums for more than a few years. Kind of easy to spot some - if ya know what I mean. lol
Hahaha - Well, I have many friends in Mass, too, and they are great people. So no harm meant to the other well-meaning and knowledgeable Mass people.
I also have read where it might be a good thing to alternate - fmj - jhp - in your CCH? Anyone have an opinion on this? I thought about doing that with my LCP, but am not 100% comfortable with the idea. However, it does sound like it could work well in many situations.
ArizonaNRAsupporter
New member
squirrelhunter
New member
Exactly.They will have other things on there mind,like WHAT THE &$&^?
squirrelhunter
New member
Many thanks for the welcome. Been on forums for more than a few years. Kind of easy to spot some - if ya know what I mean. lol
Hahaha - Well, I have many friends in Mass, too, and they are great people. So no harm meant to the other well-meaning and knowledgeable Mass people.
I also have read where it might be a good thing to alternate - fmj - jhp - in your CCH? Anyone have an opinion on this? I thought about doing that with my LCP, but am not 100% comfortable with the idea. However, it does sound like it could work well in many situations.
I thought of doing that myself but the ZM are so much more accurate.
To anyone taking advice from rich_s seriously? Gaaaaaaaaaame over. You fail. Try again.
To the OP: Sig P238 with federal hydrashok.
Lol welcome to the forums, I wasn't calling you out personally, but just a general statement to all who come across the the instructor known as Rich_S. But, you basically nailed it on the head. Doesn't take too long to see it
I was trying to figure out why Rich_S was hating the .380 and Taurus. According to him, a person should never use their gun for self-defense anyway.....
MilShooter
New member
SGB, it seems that you haven't seen the independent tests of penetration done on the Hornady Critical Defense .380 load. In test after test, the round penetrates through several layers of denim and then forms a very respectable wound cavity for about 12-14" of penetration.
Frankly, I am too lazy today to search for the tests, but there are several videos of these tests on YouTube.
For the OP: As for me, when I can't carry my normal self defense pistol, I carry a Colt Mustang Pocketlite (.380 ACP) in a DeSantis (sticky) pocket holster. The gun is filled with Hornady Critical Defense. I use fully jacketed ball ammunition for practice.
Your mileage may vary.
USN2Pulpit
New member
Thank you MilShooter, and others. It seems like it's a tie between Hornady CD (or Zombies) and Federal HydraShock. I think either one will do the job I need them to do, if I remain aware of obvious .380 limitations.
As for the three strikes called (and the fourth I called on myself) - no big deal. The responder may have been trying to be humerous. No worries - I'm not that sensitive! :sad:
As for the three strikes called (and the fourth I called on myself) - no big deal. The responder may have been trying to be humerous. No worries - I'm not that sensitive! :sad:
Whew, you must have thick enough skin to not need to fear .380 due to lack of penetration..lol
The_Outlaw
~The Dude Abides~
First of all, ignore all of the .380 haters.
NOBODY would want to be shot by a .380 believe me.
Secondly, Ignore the "Only carry FMJ for better penetration" rhetoric.
FMJ ammo 'will' overpenetrate and possibly strike someone else beyond the intended target.
NO BUENO!
I would load my .380 with Hornady Critical Defense.
Excellent penetration and proper expansion.
~Good luck & stay safe~
Carry a Sig 232 (380). Was fishing at the gathering briefly and pulled a "cooter" (snapping turtle) up. Put two rounds in him-one in the neck and one in the top of his head. Both were recovered and had expanded almost picture perfect(photo at "carolina shooters forum.com" under the local events forum. They are Winchester Rangers and did exactly what they were supposed to do. Some countries still use 380s as service pistols so they must not be underpowered too badly. I can remember when 38 Specials were the standard for police from county to federal and they are .35 caliber. 32s used to be considered well armed and 22s have probably killed/injured more people than any caliber. Do not scoff as smaller calibers just because you chose to carry a hand cannon--the smaller caliber shooter will probably put several rounds into a big gun carrier before he can clear leather--especially if it is a long barreled thing--lol.
SGB
New member
You're right, better to get killed because of poor terminal ammunition performance than face the possibility that the feeble .380 is going to do a complete pass through and find an innocent target.
.............. yes the above is sarcasm.
SGB
New member
MilShooter, I've seen a few references to the Hornady Critical Defense .380 load showing promise. What I haven't seen is that the round has been T&E'd by a reputable source and that it has shown it's performance to be reliably consistent. If or when that occurs I would most certainly amend my current opinion on choices of .380 acp ammunition.
The_Outlaw
~The Dude Abides~
A smaller and more easily concealable .380 on your person is way better than a larger framed bigger caliber sidearm left at home.
I have one mag filled with Hornady CD and one with Winchester PDX1 loaded and ready for business. I really like both rounds, but the PDX kicks extra hard from my S&W Bodyguard. I'm not sure if it's because it's 95 grains vs 90 or because it has a more open hollow point vs the CD's rubber plug. I figure if it hurts my hand coming out more it will do more damage to whatever I hit with it. There are lots of videos on YouTube that have various penetration tests. PDX1 seemed to do well against some beef ribs then have decent penetration in some ballistic gelatin while not separating from it's jacket.
MilShooter
New member
I jumped-over to YouTube for a moment to find one of the tests I saw. My memory was a bit hazy in my previous post, which claimed 12-14" of penetration. The overall penetration for the Critical Defense was 11.25" out of a Bersa Thunder with a 3.5" barrel. Here is the video of that test:
For those considering the use of a full metal jacket bullet in their defensive .380 caliber pistol, I will post a follow-up video that shows the limitations (risks) associated with using that particular cartridge.
As with all things, you are the final arbiter of "what to carry". I think I'll stick with the Hornady Critical Defense load.
Your mileage may vary...
MilShooter
New member
This is a follow-up to my previously posted video showing the performance of Hornady Critical Defense ammunition.
In this video, both tested bullets, full metal jacket (or ball) ammunition fully penetrated 4 layers of denim, 19" of the ballistic gelatin, and 1-2 water jugs used as backup. In other words, there is a big risk of over-penetration when using ball ammo in the .380.
Link Removed
Be careful out there, my friends.
Now I think I'll have some hummus...
MilShooter
Last edited:
MilShooter
New member
The Winchester PDX1 cartridge is a bonded bullet, so you should expect it to remain together. That's what bonding is supposed to do. I am posting yet another video test from YouTube; this time for the PDX1 cartridge. In my opinion, the reason for its lack of fuller penetration is that it is a true hollow-point. The Hornady Critical Defense cartridge has some sort of rubber insert in the hollow-point that prevents clothing, in this case, 4 layers of denim, from clogging it. While I would carry PDX1 in my .380 auto, I prefer the Hornady, simply because it penetrates further, but not too far. As Goldilocks said, "This one is just right..."
Link Removed
And so it goes...
MilShooter
New member
As a final posting on this subject, I have yet another video. This one shows the inherent weakness of a normal hollow point bullet when fired through clothing. In this case, the tester again used 4 layers of denim, a 19" block of ballistic gelatin, and as a backup, some gallon water jugs. The cartridge is one that is widely available and used by many people, the Remington Golden Saber, which has a 102 grain bullet as opposed to the others that were approximately 90 grains.
As you could see in the video, the hollow point got clogged with denim and did not expand at all. Further, it passed completely through the ballistic gelatin (19") and into the gallon water jug where it finally expired.
I guess my point regarding .380 Auto defensive ammunition is this:
1) Full metal jacket bullets over-penetrate. If you have a defensive shooting in your home, you must be incredibly careful to know what might be behind the bad guy. Otherwise, you could injure someone else.
2) Normal hollow points may become ineffective and not expand when shot through several layers of clothing. Then they behave as a full metal jacket bullet. See my statement on over-penetration above.
3) The only bullet that seems to perform as intended (for me) for self defense, is the Critical Defense load from Hornady.
As with everything you read or see on-line, use your own judgment as to your equipment and your ammunition. All of my (potential) self defense pistols are loaded with Hornady's Critical Defense ammo. I have not yet seen enough information about Hornady's new product called Critical Duty, but it supposedly passes the FBI's testing procedures, including shooting through automotive safety glass.
As a non-LEO, I see little value in having a bullet that can shoot a bad guy through his car windows. Why? Because at that point, you are probably not shooting in self defense. Yes, there are certainly possible scenarios wherein it might be necessary to do so, but I think it is unlikely that I will be placed in such a situation. When the bad guy runs away from me, I am not running after him.
Now I'd like a bowl of Lucky Charms.
MilShooter
As you could see in the video, the hollow point got clogged with denim and did not expand at all. Further, it passed completely through the ballistic gelatin (19") and into the gallon water jug where it finally expired.
I guess my point regarding .380 Auto defensive ammunition is this:
1) Full metal jacket bullets over-penetrate. If you have a defensive shooting in your home, you must be incredibly careful to know what might be behind the bad guy. Otherwise, you could injure someone else.
2) Normal hollow points may become ineffective and not expand when shot through several layers of clothing. Then they behave as a full metal jacket bullet. See my statement on over-penetration above.
3) The only bullet that seems to perform as intended (for me) for self defense, is the Critical Defense load from Hornady.
As with everything you read or see on-line, use your own judgment as to your equipment and your ammunition. All of my (potential) self defense pistols are loaded with Hornady's Critical Defense ammo. I have not yet seen enough information about Hornady's new product called Critical Duty, but it supposedly passes the FBI's testing procedures, including shooting through automotive safety glass.
As a non-LEO, I see little value in having a bullet that can shoot a bad guy through his car windows. Why? Because at that point, you are probably not shooting in self defense. Yes, there are certainly possible scenarios wherein it might be necessary to do so, but I think it is unlikely that I will be placed in such a situation. When the bad guy runs away from me, I am not running after him.
Now I'd like a bowl of Lucky Charms.
MilShooter
