BluesStringer
Les Brers
You all be the judge if this is the kind of guy you want to take any advice about handling guns from:
Best Self-Defense Load for .380
- Thread starter USN2Pulpit
- Start date
CharlesMorrison
Banned
Who wears four layers of denim? Who would be wearing four layers of denim on their chest?
Just sayin.... Ya know?
BluesStringer, I am sorry for wishing you harm. It is not who I am and it was inappropriate. I don't expect you to move on but I would like to put this behind us. I ask you to do the same.
Just sayin.... Ya know?
BluesStringer, I am sorry for wishing you harm. It is not who I am and it was inappropriate. I don't expect you to move on but I would like to put this behind us. I ask you to do the same.
SGB
New member
Not a fan of Magtech ammunition. Buffalo Bore would be a better choice.
BluesStringer
Les Brers
Well, that's a start.
Inappropriate, yes, you got that right. Not you though? Sorry. That level of instability is not cured with a 12-hour "time-out" and an admonishment from a stranger on the internet, even if that stranger is a moderator. That was who you are alright. Maybe not the "you" that you want to be, maybe not the best "you" you can be, but it's the only "you" I'm going to remember for quite awhile. I'm willing to watch and see how well you implement your apparent desire to put that "you" in your distant past, but you're not getting away with saying that wasn't who you are now. It was just a little more than 48 hours ago. I'm responding to the same "you" today who wished me to catch a bullet just two days ago. Over nothing.
I still seriously question whether you possess the requisite stability to carry a gun, but unfortunately for those in close proximity to you, that ain't my call. I wish both them and you luck that you will get to a place where my concerns are no longer well-founded, but for now, that's the best I can give you. Take it or leave it.
Blues
CharlesMorrison
Banned
I thank you BluesStringer. I understand your position. I guess that's enough to start with.
CharlesMorrison
Banned
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CharlesMorrison
Banned
Post removed by user
CharlesMorrison
Banned
Post removed by user
I second the Buffalo Bore bullet in .380.
To stop someone fast you need a CNS hit.
That means the bullet has to penetrate deep enough and still have enough energy to damage the spinal cord.
And .380 bullets are known not to penetrate this deep.
The Buffalo Bore 380 Auto +P Ammo - 100 gr. Hardcast F.N. just may do the job.
Scary Instructor
The expansion of a jacketed hollow point bullet is a function of construction design and materials. The performance of the bullet is a function of the cartridge design, powder load characteristics and delivery mechanism. The results are a function of the target media, distance from source and environmental factors encountered during delivery. You can design a JHP that expands perfectly but couldn't pass through a cotton t-shirt or one that can pass through a car door, a leather vest and still reach vital organs and be one-shot-stop effective. You aren't doing a very good job instructing.
However, most commercial off-the-shelf pistols designed for a standard .380 load are made to be small for concealed carry. Being small, they have a tendency to thinner chambers, barrels and construction mechanisms so increasing powder loads and burn rates could cause the pistol to explode in your hand. However, it is easy to construct a pistol strong enough to take as much c4 as you can load in a brass case and shoot the projectile through steel - it just won't be small or convenient. The average difference between .380, 9mm, .38 special and .357 magnum is not really very significant for mass of material. Thus the charge propelling the projectile controls most of the reaction. Since the bullet lengths vary a bit, there is a small variance in bullet weight, but is not the primary factor in stopping power. Muzzle velocity is a primary factor, since the diameter doesn't change much in this family, the twist is fairly similar for this diameter using Greenhill's numbers. The rifling is a factor between calibers when the diameter changes significantly since more twist is required to produce stability and that energy is spent spinning the bullet rather than propelling it. The weight of the bullet is of course a factor, both in maintaining momentum from the kinetic energy leaving the barrel and in the energy transfer at impact. This is where the design is so important. The bullet must be designed for the amount of energy remaining and the momentum carried forward at impact.
So, you need to evaluate your environment. A CCI/Speer JHP at 88 grains leaves the barrel at 1000fps with 196 ft./lbs of energy and penetrates ballistic geleation about 17 inches. This is a good round for winter when people are wearing lots of heavy clothing. However, the .355” diameter bullet only expands to about .36 inches, which is almost nothing as mentioned by the “instructor”. However, a Winchester silvertip JHP at only 85 grains still leaves the barrel at 1000fps with 189 ft./lbs of force, but it expands to a full .3”, nearly doubling its size, however, in only penetrates ballistic gelatin about 6.5 inches, so you’d want this load for summer when people are wearing very little and thin clothing.
My recommendation for a general load is to take the best of both worlds using something like Federal Hydrashock JHP. A 90 grain bullet at 1000fps develops 200 ft./lbs of energy, expands to about .58” and penetrates ballistic gelatin about 10.5” That’s about as good as you can get without beefing up the gun, and if you do that, then you might as well increase the caliber as well. A .380’s principle advantage is lightweight carry, small size for concealment and still maintains a realistic chance to stop an attacker in close combat. If you want to hit them while they are rushing you, you probably should consider a bigger gun.
The expansion of a jacketed hollow point bullet is a function of construction design and materials. The performance of the bullet is a function of the cartridge design, powder load characteristics and delivery mechanism. The results are a function of the target media, distance from source and environmental factors encountered during delivery. You can design a JHP that expands perfectly but couldn't pass through a cotton t-shirt or one that can pass through a car door, a leather vest and still reach vital organs and be one-shot-stop effective. You aren't doing a very good job instructing.
However, most commercial off-the-shelf pistols designed for a standard .380 load are made to be small for concealed carry. Being small, they have a tendency to thinner chambers, barrels and construction mechanisms so increasing powder loads and burn rates could cause the pistol to explode in your hand. However, it is easy to construct a pistol strong enough to take as much c4 as you can load in a brass case and shoot the projectile through steel - it just won't be small or convenient. The average difference between .380, 9mm, .38 special and .357 magnum is not really very significant for mass of material. Thus the charge propelling the projectile controls most of the reaction. Since the bullet lengths vary a bit, there is a small variance in bullet weight, but is not the primary factor in stopping power. Muzzle velocity is a primary factor, since the diameter doesn't change much in this family, the twist is fairly similar for this diameter using Greenhill's numbers. The rifling is a factor between calibers when the diameter changes significantly since more twist is required to produce stability and that energy is spent spinning the bullet rather than propelling it. The weight of the bullet is of course a factor, both in maintaining momentum from the kinetic energy leaving the barrel and in the energy transfer at impact. This is where the design is so important. The bullet must be designed for the amount of energy remaining and the momentum carried forward at impact.
So, you need to evaluate your environment. A CCI/Speer JHP at 88 grains leaves the barrel at 1000fps with 196 ft./lbs of energy and penetrates ballistic geleation about 17 inches. This is a good round for winter when people are wearing lots of heavy clothing. However, the .355” diameter bullet only expands to about .36 inches, which is almost nothing as mentioned by the “instructor”. However, a Winchester silvertip JHP at only 85 grains still leaves the barrel at 1000fps with 189 ft./lbs of force, but it expands to a full .3”, nearly doubling its size, however, in only penetrates ballistic gelatin about 6.5 inches, so you’d want this load for summer when people are wearing very little and thin clothing.
My recommendation for a general load is to take the best of both worlds using something like Federal Hydrashock JHP. A 90 grain bullet at 1000fps develops 200 ft./lbs of energy, expands to about .58” and penetrates ballistic gelatin about 10.5” That’s about as good as you can get without beefing up the gun, and if you do that, then you might as well increase the caliber as well. A .380’s principle advantage is lightweight carry, small size for concealment and still maintains a realistic chance to stop an attacker in close combat. If you want to hit them while they are rushing you, you probably should consider a bigger gun.
I've carried all three as well. I have a Walther PPK for my .380 which shoots and carries well, I've carried a Taurus PT100 in 9mm for years, but it is a large frame auto and at 34oz quite heavy for causal carry. The .38sp was always a snub and a wheel gun and I just don't like carrying revolvers. I own several, they shoot great, I just like the capacity of an auto for defense carry. I just recently change over to a P226 Sig Elite and am shooting .40 S&W for the first time. I've only put a few hundred rounds through it so far, bit it is still heavy to carry. I bought a shoulder rig for it and am thinking of using it during cold weather for the stopping power through heavy material, but as long as it is warm, I usually keep the Walther with me. It's small enough to be a pocket a gun and when used with a holster, it is not uncomfiortable dring with a small of back carry.
However, the thread was about the best load for a .380, and while I generally carry the Federal Hydrashock, the Buffalo Bore has almost identical performance, but the +p chamber pressures certainly put wear and tear on a smaller auto.
