I've Challenged The People Of New York

[BluesStringer]

And for the sake of argument, political leanings are the window here... I'm talking simple, basic civility.

What do you mean when you say, "...political leanings are the window here," and what does simple, basic civility have to do with that "window?" Not being sarcastic - I really just don't understand the phraseology.

Who am I, you ask? A naturalized "African American" who was honorably discharged from the Silent Service that votes every season and pays his taxes and carries a firearm legally and works when someone has honest work for him to perform.

Why are the words "African American" in quotes? Is that a comment on the rather disturbing trend in modern America of hyphenating as many sub-sets of demographics as we can conceivably identify, that serve only to divide, rather than unite us around a proud, laudible, and unified American culture? In other words, would you be just as happy to describe "who you are" by simply stating you're an American and leaving off the (likely) buried part of your bloodline that goes back to Africa? It's an honest question. Not trying to be uncivil or sarcastic, and it's not a subject I would've ever raised sans your own mention of it in the context in which you brought it up.

And what is the "Silent Service," and how does one get an honorable discharge from it?

I even read, drink beer, ride a motorcycle and currently live in the South. Are we good here? Because I'm not arguing with anyone who can't actually converse.

We're fine here, though I think I do get why walt629 says otherwise. But I am at a loss to understand the pertinence of your last paragraph, especially as it regards the more cryptic, ambiguoous allusions that I've already asked about.

As far as the thread that the OP started on the NYS forum, I found some of the replies rather comical really. Those folks' ancestors, at least the ones who have lived in the North for generations, defeated the South's attempt to extricate ourselves from the Union. They accomplished that defeat by suspending Habeas Corpus, and even the Constitution itself for a period of time. They forced us to be a part of their Union, and now their progeny pontificates about redneck this, crime stats in the South that, blah blah blah. The truly ironic dichotomy here is that now, the most committed, well-equipped and well-trained Patriot movement, that cconsistently cites the Constitution of the Union as its charter, stretches across the South, through the Southwest and much of the Northwest, while New England and the far West coast languishes in near complete unpreparedness to assert its rights for its citizens under the Constitution. And those folks in that thread seem perfectly happy about it. I say fine, let 'em have New England. Maybe the South wasn't defeated after all. LOL

Blues

 

[walt629]

Not surprising to see some people stay off of the rails once they fly off of them... if simply describing yourself is construed as "racist" and pointing out basic civility as "liberal", I can see why political discussions continue to be a waste of time here. Good thing I didn't actually engage in a political discourse here... I'm only here to talk about guns.

No ones off the rail here. And not a single mention of the Constitutional merits of the situation regarding gun control in New York (the real topic of the thread) was in your posting.

Maybe I misunderstand where you're coming from so I'm willing to give this another chance, just for giggles and grins. My posting to this thread was directed towards the postings on the New York City blog and the comments that were made on that blog, not to any comments made here. So if you misunderstood where my comment were aimed, I just thought it best I clarify.

As far as political discourse, it is difficult to have a discussion with anyone that has made up their minds and are not willing to consider differing opinions. The discussions usually degenerate into one sided "statement fests" and one side ends up calling the other names. But I would suggest you take political issues over to the Politics forum. There are many here that have strong opinions and can offer some lively debate.

Nothing is being misconstrued as racist. You're the one who felt it necessary to bring your race into this in the first place. I merely asked the question in response to your insistance. After all, asking questions is what a conversation is all about, right? Asking questions?

Up until your post, I can't remember ever reading ANY posting on this site where someone interjected their race into any of the conversations unless they were first asked. So yes, I think bringing your race into the conversation was an attempt on your part to weight the conversation with your race. And I would consider that a racist move.

I read your posting as "I'm Black, I'm from New York, so I know more about this than you do." An I do find that offensive to everyone. You simply could have said "as a former New Yorker" and that would have carried a lot more weight in your argument. Everything else was camouflage.

If you're going to wade into a conversation and expect different treatment because of your race and military service (unless the conversation is based on race or military service) then I have to agree with you, it will be a waste of your time.

Oh! And NO I didn't ask. FYI.

 

[walt629]

I live in southern NY state and got my carry with no problem. Good for life, carry in bars, banks ,public trans, pretty much anywhere except where federally prohibited. Even had a couple blemishes on my record. Who cares about the cesspool of NYC and Bloomingidiot?? I just won't go there. Got my Fla. permit also so I'm good to go. everyone makes a big deal about NY state in general when it is NYC with the problem. So direct it where the problem is, NYC not NY state.

You are right about the big problem being NYC, Panhead. But as a citizen of New York State, you cannot just turn your head and make believe that NYC is not part of NYS.

When we as a group of peoples, that hold the Constitution dear, tell ourselves that "It's okay. I have my rights guaranteed." but don't take up the banner for everyone then we are condemning ourselves to the same fate we see in NYC and all the other cities across the US that wholly believe it is in their power to establish laws that are contrary to the States and the Constitution.

Whether we like it or not, these same cities are part of the state and need to be addressed by the citizens of the state. We just can't fluff it off. :nono:

 

[twogunwilly]

I just posted a thread on a very active New York message board, challenging them as to why they don't fight for their rights.

This is going to get quite active, I'm sure.

You posted your "challenge" on a city forum what did you expect? All of NY is not NYC, that entire forum is most likely occupied by citidiots. NY happens to be #1 on the list of CCW permits which whether restricted or not are all concealed carry permits. The political climate here is changing because we are not just whining about it many of us work at it everyday.

 

[walt629]

I just posted a thread on a very active New York message board, challenging them as to why they don't fight for their rights.

This is going to get quite active, I'm sure.

What's Wrong With You People In New York? - City-Data Forum

I encourage everyone here to keep up with this discussion, perhaps even join in.

Gus, while I think I understand why you did what you did, and I agree, to some extent with why you did it, your actions were not that dissimilar to an anti-gunner wading into our forums and throwing a bomb here.

Other than kicking the bees nest, what did you expect? Just curious.

A bit of an after the fact edit here:

I went back into the thread you started and I am still astounded by the complete lack of Constitutional understanding the majority of the respondents show. Either they do not have the understanding or they choose to refuse to acknowledge it.

The responses continue to show the ignorance and arrogance of the members of the City-Data forum in regard to the laws of the land, the Constitution and just the simple art of respectful dialog. Although your initial posting wasn't exactly respectful either. But the responses are staggering in their denial of facts, law and reality.

 

[Panheadzz]

Walt, Thanks for your comment. I personaly live by and promote the Constitution every chance I can. I was born in a worse place, (N.J.) so the opportunity to have firearms and be able to carry in N.Y. State was a blessing. I spent 5 yrs in my youth in the free state of Florida and then came back to the north with my family. I vote at every election be it local or national. And I vote conservative. I am 35 mins from N.Y.C and do not go there.
I wish I could pick up and move however buisness interest here keeps me from doing that. I wish NYC would declare itself a separate state but that's not happening.When they and a few other larger cities in N.Y. state vote with a block of 10 million or more we freedom loving citizens get voted down at every opportunity. This will not discourage me from being a supporter of freedom or stop me from promoting our rights at every opportunity.
My 27 yr old daughter who now lives and works in Atlanta came to visit over the holidays with her new boyfriend. Her two best friends are a female FBI agent and a male S.S. agent who take her regularly to the range to shoot all kinds of firearms including F.A. Her first words to me were, "Are we going shooting" This was after she warned her boyfriend that " My dad is a little intimidating. Big guy, long hair,kinda redneckish, rides motorcycles and has guns." This usually gets rid of them quick however he turned out to be a freedom loving guy so he is in in my book.My son has his own firearms and goes shooting with me also.
All N.Y.ers are not the liberal pansies that suck up to Bloomingidiots hindt%%. We all don't live off the government handouts. And we all don't approve of what goes on here and we do vote trying to make change. We do get it done locally, but statewide it is an uphill battle that I won't give up.

 

[tuts40]

I read down the thread there at that forum, seems a lot of responders attack those south of them by insulting their intelligence, state guns kill people, etc. I'm not sure what the OP was trying to prove unless it is to show another example of how NYC, generally speaking, is too far gone in terms common sense to worry about, in which case he was successful.

One of the responders in that thread even insulted the OP for the way he 'spoke'. Yeah, a New Yawka...

 

[S&W645]

....

And what is the "Silent Service," and how does one get an honorable discharge from it?.....

Silent Service is the US Navy submarine fleet.

 

[www315]

Excerpt from Mistergus75 on his thread.

Ther Constitution of the United States guarantees us, as a God-given right, the right to "keep and bear arms". But you people in New York...You've surrendered your God-given rights, and have laid down like sheep.

You don't like guns? Too bad. The Constitution protects the right to have them, and it doesn't matter if you like them or not.

But you New Yorkers...shame on you...

Gutless cowards.

I don't even know what to say about this. Was purpose of this posted to just piss people off? Who are "you people?" I live in NY and try to do what I can to fight for our gun rights and I belong to groups like NRA and SCOPE and I vote. How can you say that New Yorkers have laid down like sheep. If this were true our state would be like Illinois or the micro stamping law would have passed by now or we would have to register our long guns. Also, we can vote for Pro 2nd officals all day long, but if the majority of the state is anti we will have a hard time getting the right officals elected as we will be out voted. This does not mean the gun lovers of New York have "laid down like sheep." I do don't know what state you are from, but if there are any kind of restriction on guns it your state the same statment could be made for you. Just because we have not achieved the level of success we would like in New York YET please don't insult us by calling us "Gutless Cowards."

 

[BC1]

I just posted a thread on a very active New York message board, challenging them as to why they don't fight for their rights.

This is going to get quite active, I'm sure.

What's Wrong With You People In New York? - City-Data Forum

I encourage everyone here to keep up with this discussion, perhaps even join in.

I read all the posts before responding and found a common opinion that NYS is bad. Of course this is the myth not the truth. It's great to bash NYC but most posters have no idea of the state of affairs here.

First, let's all learn to separate NYC from NYS in gun laws. NYC follows it's own laws which are different from the state. NYS population is about 19 million with 8 million of those residing in NYC, a 4 X 7 mile island. They control the state vote. This is a city of foreigners, transplants and liberals. English is barely the most commonly spoken language. These people are from lands where gun=crime and they don't want guns to be legal. That's the will of the people in NYC and you'll never convert them. Unfortunately there isn't enough upstate vote to offset the city.

The only issue we find in NYS is they won't allow non-residents to carry a gun. One myth in this thread is that counties close to NYC don't offer unrestricted CCW permits. Well, Dutchess County offers only unrestricted permits. Ulster offers unrestricted permits and most Orange County residents have no problem obtaining the same (360,000 residents, 30,000 CCW permits). NYS does not make it hard to get a permit. Only those with criminal or psychiatric histories are denied a permit. There's no conspiracy to stop CCW. NYS has very few gun laws compared to many "shall-issue" or "gun-friendly" states. There are no laws against carrying in a bar, restaurant, bank, hospital, church, public transportation, etc. There is no qualification requirement and the permit never needs to be renewed... good for life. Those who move out of state are now being allowed to keep their CCW permit. I've seen ONE anti-gun sign in all my years... at the Hongkong Shanghai Bank Corp. How many states can claim this level of freedom, especially from a Democrat state.

I've had an unrestricted CCW for a long time. All of my friends and family have them. No one has had any problem obtaining them. Our permits services people regularly obtain these permits for clients, even those with minor criminal records.

But, bashing NY is still fun. Yes, join in this discussion and offer helpful info. just don't perpetuate the myth. Know what you're talking about... read.

 

[BIGJOHN621]

Once again, not completely right. There are 18 counties plus the 5 in NYC that issue Target and Hunting Only handgun permits. The problem is almost statewide. If you are in a full issue county, thank the stars as that could change with the next sheriff election or appointment. Don't be so complacent, you will be in our shoes before long if you are.

 

[fudo]

I just posted a thread on a very active New York message board, challenging them as to why they don't fight for their rights.

This is going to get quite active, I'm sure.

What's Wrong With You People In New York? - City-Data Forum

I encourage everyone here to keep up with this discussion, perhaps even join in.

The depth of ignorance on that forum is truly impressive.

 

[Wysiwyg101]

I read both the thread in this forum as well as the city forum. While I personally agree about the constitutional issues involved, I disagree with the initial trollish behavior of the OP. OP, If I went to your house and started telling you how you should be raising your kids and calling you a gutless coward about it I don't think you would be all that willing to try and hold an intelligent conversation regarding my comments. And then, to compound it, when they did try and discuss it with you (not the ones who just flamed you back), you not only pretty much refused to discuss, all you did was re-iterate your opinion and in addition to calling them ALL gutless cowards, you also told them they were lawless.

There are so many different ways this conversation could have gone, some of them could have had the impact of actually changing a few hearts and minds, but instead, those folks are now more firmly entrenched in their belief that all of us "rednecks" from the southern states are a bunch of hicks and idiots who still we live in the wild, wild west. Based on the responses I read, I didn't see a single one that said, "Hey MisterGus, I think you have some good points and I'm going to think about them." In other words, you pissed them off and so now, nothing you or anyone else says about the subject will in any shape or form change their minds, tho Walt69 had some really good intelligent points and maybe that will be able to save something here.

Next time you want to make your point, do so intelligently and nicely as if you are having a conversation with them instead of being a troll about it. IMHO

 

[walt629]

Once again I have returned to the real world unscathed. I went back onto the forum, this time I signed up and spent most of the morning in rebuttal to the comments given by the good citizens of New York city. Yeah! I know! I just wasted most of the morning!

I did find it interesting that the arguments against gun ownership mostly had the same threads.
1. There is no God given rights or there is no God.
2. The government is here to protect us, we shouldn't endeavor to protect ourselves.
3. Guns are bad. It doesn't matter why, they are just bad.
4. No one in the State of New York hunts anymore so no one in the state should have a gun. (I blew coffee through my nose with that one)
5. The Constitution is outdated. It's not the 1700's anymore so we don't need it.
6. New Yorkers want it this way, just leave us alone.
7. If you own a gun, you are uneducated.
8. Guns are the bad thing, criminals are a by product of gun.

The insults came all along the same guise. Anyone that thinks we have a God given right, protected by the Constitution is a 'red neck'. I tried to explain to them, that in my case, "red neck" is a badge of honor shared by a lot of people from all over the US not just the south.

 

[BIGJOHN621]

Walt629, I won't misquote you this time because I have never heard a better summary of the NY mentality that we are fighting than the one above. Kudos for hitting it on the head.

 

[mistergus75]

Gus, while I think I understand why you did what you did, and I agree, to some extent with why you did it, your actions were not that dissimilar to an anti-gunner wading into our forums and throwing a bomb here.

Other than kicking the bees nest, what did you expect? Just curious.

Just kicking the bees nest? Actually, that might be a pretty good description of what I was doing.

I wanted to stir this issue up, wake some people up, get people to actually thinking.

Sheep in NYC have lived with these gun control laws for so long, too many of them don't even think about it.

I think we should kick this bees nest more often.

 

[Kerzhan]

I was asked for clarification:

"African American" is in quotes simply because it's the current label assigned to me by the Feds. I don't necessarily identify with it, as it doesn't accurately reflect my lineage (unless you consider that all humans originated in Africa)... and the Feds have changed the label over the years anyway. I know I'm an American because I have the paperwork that says so!

Also, the intention of my post was simply "why stir the pot?"... since there's no reason to attack foreigners in a foreign land if you don't have the ability to actually effect change in that land, especially if you don't have a stake in it. Again, not a political statement... more a question along the lines of "why go crap in the neighbor's pond if you don't otherwise use the pond anyway"?

OK, now people can go back to their regularly scheduled flamethrowing!

 

[nogods]

Once again I have returned to the real world unscathed. I went back onto the forum, this time I signed up and spent most of the morning in rebuttal to the comments given by the good citizens of New York city. Yeah! I know! I just wasted most of the morning!

I did find it interesting that the arguments against gun ownership mostly had the same threads.
1. There are no God given rights or there are no Gods.

I fixed it for you.

 

[S&W645]

Just kicking the bees nest? Actually, that might be a pretty good description of what I was doing.

I wanted to stir this issue up, wake some people up, get people to actually thinking.

Sheep in NYC have lived with these gun control laws for so long, too many of them don't even think about it.

I think we should kick this bees nest more often.

I never kick bees nests, but I have been known to throw gasoline on Hornets nests. And you sure stirred up the Hornets nest there.:yes4:

 

[anvil6]

DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer. Nothing here is legal advice. Do your own research.

Q1: When is a firearm that uses a metalic cartridge considered "Loaded"?

Q2: When is a firearm that uses a metalic cartridge considered "Loaded" in SOME US states?

Q3: When is a firearm that uses a metalic cartridge considered "Loaded" in New York?

Possible Answers:

A. Always.
B. If there is a cartridge in the chamber OR in the ATTACHED magazine.
C. If there is a cartridge in the chamber OR in a magazine or other loading device.
D. If there is a cartridge in the chamber OR if the person possessing the firearm is simultaneously in possession of any quantity of ammunition that can be used in that firearm, REGARDLESS of whether the ammunition is loose or loaded into a loading device or magazine that fits that firearm.

Answeer Key:
A -- "Always" IS the correct answer until YOU properly clear the firearm. Then it is still HANDLED as if it is loaded for SAFETY purposes. What I was really asking was LEGALLY.

Q1: A, B.
Q2: A, C.
Q3: A, D.

While the gun laws of NY might not look too bad for those who have never known any other system (think Stockholm Syndrom but from birth), the total unreasonableness of those laws as they are applied against non-residents who are merely transiting thru NY, or who at no fault of their own are diverted to NY and are delayed there due to a transportation breakdown is HIGHLY offensive.

If a State or political subdivision thereof demands forfiture of my best means to defend my life against violent criminal attack as a condition of entry across it's border, I'm simply not going there.

Travelers should not take even the POSSIBILITY of being charged with a FELONY for possession of a "Loaded" firearm (see NY Penal Code, Part 3, Title P, Article 265.00 (definitions), 15.), jail time, bail money, lawyers fees, a possible return trip for trial, possible conviction and subsequent lifetime loss of RKBA to be a TRIVIAL matter!! And that would be for a handgun and ammo packed according to Airline and TSA requirements that they declare (as required) to be placed into their checked baggage at the airport!

Travelers without NY or NYC permits (not issued to non-residents) whose journey may be "INTERUPTED" in NY (and there are countless ways for that to happen - or for them to say it did) LOOSE the protections of the FEDERAL Firearms Owners Protection Act and are then subject to arrest, prosectuion, trial and imprisonment for any "loaded" firearm(s), high-capaacity feeding devices or assault weapons found in their possession, in spite of the items being maintained IAW FOPA guidelines.

Even in IL, it is permissible for a non-resident to take their FOPA-guideline stored firearm and ammo into a motel room, spend the night and THEN check in at an airport, declaring their firearm and placing it into checked baggage -- WITHOUT being arrested by the police!

As for those with "Lifetime" NY permits that are tied to a business -- doesn't that require storage of the firearm at EITHER 1) The NY business or 2) The permit holders IN STATE address?

DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer. Nothing here is legal advice. Do your own research.

Take Care.
Gary