Inform the officer or not when concealed carry?

[Firefighterchen]

The beauty of this is that you open carry so you automatically inform the police as well as everyone else.

Kind of. In a vehicle, even when open carrying the handgun is concealed. Otherwise yeah, its a moot point to tell an officer your are open carrying But then the question is, if you have done nothing wrong, should they ask you for your permit/ID based solely on the fact you are open carrying?

 

[Deserteagle]

Cord, since you are new to the forums, here is a word of advice.

There are something like almost 30,000 members on this forum if I recall correctly, and most of them are good people. But there is a small group of about 5 people including Chen that will argue with and troll on anyone who shows respect for law enforcement, or who would notify a cop they have a gun when they are not required to, or who thinks concealed carry is better than open carrying.

Dont let them bother you though, there are only a few but they seem numerous because of the amount of posts they make.

 

[NavyLCDR]

The beauty of this is that you open carry so you automatically inform the police as well as everyone else.

Except when inside a vehicle and my gun is worn on my right side, and the officer has approached from the left side. Chances are extremely great they will not notice the gun on my belt. I have never informed, it has never been an issue, and I have run about 50/50 in the past getting a speeding ticket/warning. I have since slowed down and stay within 5 mph of the speed limit.

I just don't think it is worth it for me to give away my rights to privacy and firearms possession simply to attempt to prove to a police officer that I am a good guy with the hope to get out of a ticket.

 

[Deserteagle]

Except when inside a vehicle and my gun is worn on my right side, and the officer has approached from the left side. Chances are extremely great they will not notice the gun on my belt. I have never informed, it has never been an issue, and I have run about 50/50 in the past getting a speeding ticket/warning. I have since slowed down and stay within 5 mph of the speed limit.

I just don't think it is worth it for me to give away my rights to privacy and firearms possession simply to attempt to prove to a police officer that I am a good guy with the hope to get out of a ticket.

Do you see the point I am making though? Since you open carry, you give up your right to privacy to just about the whole world. Everyone can see you have a gun so you take away your choice to tell people or not. In a car, sure it would be harder for the cop to see if it was on your right and he was on your left. But I've been asked to step out of my car before. I've also seen when cops will approach from the left side as well, like when there are 2 cops or when a cop doesnt want to be standing out in the road.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Do you see the point I am making though? Since you open carry, you give up your right to privacy to just about the whole world. Everyone can see you have a gun so you take away your choice to tell people or not. In a car, sure it would be harder for the cop to see if it was on your right and he was on your left. But I've been asked to step out of my car before. I've also seen when cops will approach from the left side as well, like when there are 2 cops or when a cop doesnt want to be standing out in the road.

Actually, in regards to carrying my gun in public, I have no right to privacy as my state government legislated that right away by requiring me to obtain government permission and pay a tax in order to conceal a loaded handgun on my person. A person can pay for the privilege to do so, if they desire.

However, yes, you are correct that I do inform others of my gun by open carrying. However, when the gun is lawfully stored in the glove box or not noticed, I don't feel the need to bring it's presence to anyone's attention other than a criminal who may have chosen to attack me.

Yes, I have been asked to exit the vehicle before, and yes, the gun was not noticed by the police officer until I exited the vehicle. No, I did not tell him about my gun before I got out.

 

[Firefighterchen]

Cord, since you are new to the forums, here is a word of advice.

There are something like almost 30,000 members on this forum if I recall correctly, and most of them are good people. But there is a small group of about 5 people including Chen that will argue with and troll on anyone who shows respect for law enforcement, or who would notify a cop they have a gun when they are not required to, or who thinks concealed carry is better than open carrying.

Dont let them bother you though, there are only a few but they seem numerous because of the amount of posts they make.

As gmr puts it, reading comprehension epic fail. I never said for anyone to disrespect officers, not once. I have just said I do not respect officers. How is that arguing or trolling?

I never tell anyone who is legally bound to notify to not notify. I advise but always say it's their choice in the end. In fact it's always their choice no matter what anyone says on an online forum.

I never said concealed or opened was better or worse in all situations. I'm always defending open carry from you die hard cc'ers. The amount of lies you guys post, then turn around and blame others, must be that change Obama is taking about.

So maybe stop lying, if you can.

 

[Deserteagle]

As gmr puts it, reading comprehension epic fail. I never said for anyone to disrespect officers, not once. I have just said I do not respect officers. How is that arguing or trolling?

I never tell anyone who is legally bound to notify to not notify. I advise but always say it's their choice in the end. In fact it's always their choice no matter what anyone says on an online forum.

I never said concealed or opened was better or worse in all situations. I'm always defending open carry from you die hard cc'ers. The amount of lies you guys post, then turn around and blame others, must be that change Obama is taking about.

So maybe stop lying, if you can.

No lying here bud. I never said you told others to disrespect officers, so stop putting words in my mouth. I said that if somebody like Cord makes a post that has respect for cops, you argue with them. Fact. That is why we are talking right now.

Trolling- you trolled on Cord's post.

I never said you told people to not notify when they are required to. READ my post. Reading COMPREHENSION 101

I am a "die hard CCer" now? Really? What makes you say that? Did I not post in another thread that I enjoy open carrying at times? And did I not make a post asking for clarification about open carry law because I am considering it as an option in the city as well? And I am a liar now too? How so? Show me where I have lied.
And you also resort to calling me a liberal with your reference to Obama. How childish of you to resort to name calling and even more so, calling me something that just about nobody on this forum is because we are all gun owners.

 

[Firefighterchen]

I've read many of your other posts and you've never really addressed that question directly other than pointing out that they shouldn't be afforded any more respect than any other profession and littering threads with sarcastic barbs solely because you disagree with their opinions.

Thank you for noticing I do not tell anyone to disrespect officers, just that I feel they don't deserve more respect than anyone else. That's what I was trying to get across. I'm glad you could understand this. I don't expect you to change, or have the same point of view, because we have lived two different lives. At least you can understand my posts, even if you don't agree with them.

As to littering threads. I just scanned over my last 200 posts...could only count 10 that could be considered sarcastic and trolling. I guess I should ignore b2 and desert and stop baiting them, since they are the only ones who seem to palpably dislike me.

 

[Deserteagle]

As to littering threads. I just scanned over my last 200 posts...could only count 10 that could be considered sarcastic and trolling. I guess I should ignore b2 and desert and stop baiting them, since they are the only ones who seem to palpably dislike me.

Have you not realized that you continue to make enemies on here all by yourself? Cord made his first post about his own life stories and you are already on his list of trolls. Not just me and b2 that have problems with your arguments. I dont have any problems with you, just some of the things you say.
Dont forget about how you posted that all us "CCers" just resort to lying and then ignoring when you decide to ignore me.

 

[Firefighterchen]

As gmr puts it, reading comprehension epic fail. I never said for anyone to disrespect officers, not once. I have just said I do not respect officers. How is that arguing or trolling?

I never tell anyone who is legally bound to notify to not notify. I advise but always say it's their choice in the end. In fact it's always their choice no matter what anyone says on an online forum.

I never said concealed or opened was better or worse in all situations. I'm always defending open carry from you die hard cc'ers. The amount of lies you guys post, then turn around and blame others, must be that change Obama is taking about.

So maybe stop lying, if you can.

No lying here bud. I never said you told others to disrespect officers, so stop putting words in my mouth. I said that if somebody like Cord makes a post that has respect for cops, you argue with them. Fact. That is why we are talking right now.

Trolling- you trolled on Cord's post.

I never said you told people to not notify when they are required to. READ my post. Reading COMPREHENSION 101

I am a "die hard CCer" now? Really? What makes you say that? Did I not post in another thread that I enjoy open carrying at times? And did I not make a post asking for clarification about open carry law because I am considering it as an option in the city as well? And I am a liar now too? How so? Show me where I have lied.
And you also resort to calling me a liberal with your reference to Obama. How childish of you to resort to name calling and even more so, calling me something that just about nobody on this forum is because we are all gun owners.

Hey you aren't ignoring me!

Fact, your fact was wrong on why we are talking. My first post to cord was welcome, and I hope he finds the articles interesting and informative. Then I included a sarcastic snippet for the following reason.
I never trolled cord's respect for officers. I trolled his statement that some of our members posts made him nauseous. What was the purpose of that statement other than putting down others opinions?

You stated I argue with anyone who says they should notify. Doesn't that mean I am telling everyone, including people who are required to by law, to not notify? What other standpoint is there on that topic? You either do or don't. So by saying I argue with anyone who says they should notify is a lie, because I do not argue with those that by law have to notify.

My comments on die hard cc'ers was misplaced on to you, sorry, those should be reserved for the one post wonders and b2.

I didn't call you a liberal or Obama. The subject of the last sentence in that paragraph was "change". I said your tactics of arguing are the same, not your political philosophy. Ed H is a liberal though, so we aren't all republican conservatives. A lot of people here have stated they have very liberal outlooks on life as well.

 

[Firefighterchen]

As to littering threads. I just scanned over my last 200 posts...could only count 10 that could be considered sarcastic and trolling. I guess I should ignore b2 and desert and stop baiting them, since they are the only ones who seem to palpably dislike me.

Have you not realized that you continue to make enemies on here all by yourself? Cord made his first post about his own life stories and you are already on his list of trolls. Not just me and b2 that have problems with your arguments. I dont have any problems with you, just some of the things you say.
Dont forget about how you posted that all us "CCers" just resort to lying and then ignoring when you decide to ignore me.

Crap I forgot the *sarcasm* for you guys. It's ok, I all ready stared in another forum I don't ignore anyone, it's just to close minded to cut of the opposition.

Do you remember that time when someone said something about replying to posts that weren't directly addressed to them?

Ah, I don't care either way. I may be on his troll list, but he secured his position on mine with his first post by saying our opinions make him nauseous. Luckily my troll list isn't set in stone, and others have, in my mind, broke free of the trollish behavior.

In the end, I feel the only enemies I have are b2, and you. You two are the only ones to attack me as a person. Maybe grm as well but he is too new to tell what his intentions are. Even cord brings a direct question to me that no one else had asked. He was actually interested in why I have the point of view I have, instead if lumping me into the cop haters group.

 

[Deanimator]

His reply for the sake of argument was a traffic stop of some kind so I replied, you've already broken some law so the officer took the time to pull you over and you're questioning whether or not you should bother to tell them you're legally carrying a firearm?

Not so much.

Here's a far from all inclusive list of reasons why you could be pulled over:

1. You violated a traffic law.
2. You match the description of someone wanted by the police.
3. The cop is trolling for drunks using pretext stops.
4. The cop likes to hassle <insert appropriate racial, ethnic or religious group>.
5. The cop likes to stop attractive women and you're one.
6. The cop plans to rob you... or worse.
7. The cop his bored.

Cops do a lot things, legal and otherwise, for a lot of reasons... or simply no reason at all. I've lived more than long enough to know better than to assume that those motivations are benign.

I've been in a vehicle that was stopped for "weaving", which was in fact not weaving at all. It was a pretext stop trolling for drunks. I was being driven to the Amtrak station about 2:30am. If because of that stunt, I'd missed my train to Chicago, I'd have broken the bat off in the cop's 4th point of contact in civil court.

Notifying cops that you're carrying where not required by law is a BAD idea. REQUIRING people to notify is a far WORSE idea. If you don't believe me google: "Daniel Harless Canton Police Department".

 

[Deanimator]

Get to know the local PD. They're not as bad as you think they are, and contrary to popular belief, they're not necessarily "the enemy".

I was raised in Chicago. Depending upon where you live, the police may in fact be far worse than you can imagine.

Google the names "Anthony Abbate" and "Jerome Finnegan". They're nobody I'd want as "friends".

 

[Cord]

Cops are people.

Just for the sake of argument, I understand that cops are people, and as surprising as it may be, there are people that are cops that are also a**holes. The two fine gentlemen officers who held me up in front of a busy restaurant and searched me were undoubtedly a**holes and probably overstepped their boundaries with the way they handled me. Doesn't change the fact that I have a lot of respect for officers in general. I just find it an odd distinction that people who have concerns with officers have typically had a bad experience with a particular person, and have blanketed their experience to all LEOs. It's very similar, at least to me, of thinking "well, I was assaulted by a criminal that was (insert race here), therefore I have concerns with all ____." Or a very similar discussion I have with business associates who say that they hate a particular company or business, and when you pin them down on it, turns out they had a bad experience with a person that works for said company. Granted they are representing that company, but there's a**holes in every workplace, and blanketing a company for that person is pretty close to some of the many -isms that get thrown around freely these days.

As far as me stating the opinions expressed of people who do not believe they should have to inform LEO of carrying (as opposed to legally requiring notification) makes me nauseous, my intention was not to disrespect that point of view, but it does make my stomach churn regardless because MY personal experience slides the other way.

I love a good debate, and disagreeing doesn't necessarily imply dislike, despite how popular it is these days for people with opposing viewpoints to hate each other.

 

[Firefighterchen]

Crap...I was going to say, if Cord couldn't take my sarcasm and trolling (even the slightest, although it looks like he took it like a champ!)...i can't wait till he meets G50...

HEY G50 hows it going?

 

[Firefighterchen]

Just for the sake of argument, I understand that cops are people, and as surprising as it may be, there are people that are cops that are also a**holes. The two fine gentlemen officers who held me up in front of a busy restaurant and searched me were undoubtedly a**holes and probably overstepped their boundaries with the way they handled me. Doesn't change the fact that I have a lot of respect for officers in general. I just find it an odd distinction that people who have concerns with officers have typically had a bad experience with a particular person, and have blanketed their experience to all LEOs. It's very similar, at least to me, of thinking "well, I was assaulted by a criminal that was (insert race here), therefore I have concerns with all ____." Or a very similar discussion I have with business associates who say that they hate a particular company or business, and when you pin them down on it, turns out they had a bad experience with a person that works for said company. Granted they are representing that company, but there's a**holes in every workplace, and blanketing a company for that person is pretty close to some of the many -isms that get thrown around freely these days.

As far as me stating the opinions expressed of people who do not believe they should have to inform LEO of carrying (as opposed to legally requiring notification) makes me nauseous, my intention was not to disrespect that point of view, but it does make my stomach churn regardless because MY personal experience slides the other way.

I love a good debate, and disagreeing doesn't necessarily imply dislike, despite how popular it is these days for people with opposing viewpoints to hate each other.

This is a well thought out post. Stereotypes are definitely not the greatest mindset to have, but it is a mindset, and it could possibly save your life someday. There has to be an equal balance of awareness and stereotypes, and that balance will differentiate between different people. For example, you and me. While you haven't had that many bad experiences with police, 5 out 6 personal experiences were bad with me (even though I only posted 3). That means my balance of awareness and stereotypes will greatly differ from yours.

While your intention was not to disrespect, and I thank you for clarifying your position, I did feel disrespected when I first read your post. Hence my sarcastic snippet. Should I not have put that in there...probably, but whats said is said. After all, if I hadn't put it in there, my good buddy desert eagle wouldn't have spoken to me again!

 

[Deanimator]

Just for the sake of argument, I understand that cops are people, and as surprising as it may be, there are people that are cops that are also a**holes. The two fine gentlemen officers who held me up in front of a busy restaurant and searched me were undoubtedly a**holes and probably overstepped their boundaries with the way they handled me. Doesn't change the fact that I have a lot of respect for officers in general. I just find it an odd distinction that people who have concerns with officers have typically had a bad experience with a particular person, and have blanketed their experience to all LEOs. It's very similar, at least to me, of thinking "well, I was assaulted by a criminal that was (insert race here), therefore I have concerns with all ____." Or a very similar discussion I have with business associates who say that they hate a particular company or business, and when you pin them down on it, turns out they had a bad experience with a person that works for said company. Granted they are representing that company, but there's a**holes in every workplace, and blanketing a company for that person is pretty close to some of the many -isms that get thrown around freely these days.

I'm Black. I have no special power to stop you involuntarily, disarm you or detain you by virtue of my race. I can't get on the stand in criminal court and lie against you using a presumption of veracity to maliciously do you harm.

This isn't Egypt. We don't draft cops. Profession is a CHOICE. Race is NOT.

A cop who didn't know the law once got in my face and misstating the law (BADLY) said, "I know, I'M A COP!" What do you think would happen if I made up some law and got in somebody's face and said, "I know, I'M BLACK!"?

I find it curious that so many cops who whine about the "race card" don't mind throwing the "cop card" down at every opportunity, even to defend the utterly indefensible, including assault, robbery, torture and murder by cops.

To the extent that police have a poor reputation in this country, and especially in particular places (like Chicago, Philadelphia and New Orleans), they've EARNED that reputation, both by their actions and their excuse making for those actions.

 

[Deanimator]

If I draw both the Race Card and the Cop Card as the first two cards durring a game of blackjack can I split the hand like I would if I drew two aces?

Depends upon where you are. In Chicago, race trumps EVERYTHING, even among cops.

 

[Cord]

Almost forgot....

Chen, after reading your experiences I don't blame you a single bit for not having much respect for cops or the legal system......in your area, but I don't think that should necessarily extend to all LEO across the board, or require you to push that agenda with others because of your own bad experiences.

But hey, that's your experience and opinion, so I have to respect that you've made the effort to have that opinion, even if I disagree with it.

 

[Deserteagle]

Crap I forgot the *sarcasm* for you guys. It's ok, I all ready stared in another forum I don't ignore anyone, it's just to close minded to cut of the opposition.

Do you remember that time when someone said something about replying to posts that weren't directly addressed to them?

Ah, I don't care either way. I may be on his troll list, but he secured his position on mine with his first post by saying our opinions make him nauseous. Luckily my troll list isn't set in stone, and others have, in my mind, broke free of the trollish behavior.

In the end, I feel the only enemies I have are b2, and you. You two are the only ones to attack me as a person. Maybe grm as well but he is too new to tell what his intentions are. Even cord brings a direct question to me that no one else had asked. He was actually interested in why I have the point of view I have, instead if lumping me into the cop haters group.

You are right, I need to go back to ignoring you, just couldnt help it when you started trolling on a first poster.
Since I am your enemy, please stop posting on my profile as you just did. Thanks.