opinions on open carry

[localgirl]

Yeah...it's like really hot in the middle of the US, then over here in North Idaho, it's all rainy and cool. Heh. Weather. Heh heh.

 

[Axeanda45]

I will NOT be SILENT!!!!!!!!


oops, was that out loud?

 

[Grognard Gunny]

The only thing we are quick to jump on is the presentation of unproven theories as fact. The statement, "A criminal is going to shoot you first in a robbery if you open carry" has NEVER happened in reality. It's that simple. Research and history both offer proof that the MAJORITY of criminals will not bother with a target that is known to be armed.

I don't care if you base your choices on what-if scenarios in your head and/or unproven theories. But don't try to tell me those theories have any basis in reality, because they don't.

If the MAJORITY of criminals defer to shows of deterrance, does it not logically come to follow that there WILL be an occasional one that will not? (Just sayin'.)

My dear anal retentive Sir, I would not presume to tell you anything. I merely offer considerations for examination/discussion. If that is not your style, fine with me. But, conversely, don't expect me to take your "humble opinion" as Gospel either. :no: biggrin

GG

 

[Grognard Gunny]

Which is also why YOU are on so many people's ignore list, in fact, you are probably on more ignore lists than anyone else........

NYAH NYAH NYAH! So there! :biggrin: to_pick_ones_nose

(Really put YOU in your place, didn't he?)

Confucious say: If birds of a feather flock too much together.... only generate boo-koo bird doo-doo.

These truths I hold to be self evident. :biggrin:

GG

 

[Axeanda45]

nyah nyah nyah! So there! :biggrin: to_pick_ones_nose

(really put you in your place, didn't he?)

confucious say: If birds of a feather flock too much together.... Only generate boo-koo bird doo-doo.

These truths i hold to be self evident. :biggrin:

Gg

tthhhbbbbtttttt :haha:

 

[Firefighterchen]

I'll address some of your points:

2. The ships were a metaphor. It wasn't meant to be taken literally. It was directed at a (alleged) naval officer.

3. It's called common sense. Like I (and others) have pointed out, stats on who got targeted first aren't available. Also, you don't need to be shot at to be "targeted". You need only to be disarmed. In that case you've just put another gun on the street as well as losing the option fight back on even terms if necessary.

4. Criminals who aren't deterred by armed targets operate every day. Armored cars, pawn shops, check cashing stores, jewelry stores, banks, etc. that have armed guards on the premesis get robbed every day. In Florida (where I live) it's very easy to buy a firearm for protection yet every day BGs rob bodegas, convenience stores, news stands, etc. even though they know there's a fairly high probability that the person behind the counter may very well have access to a gun.

4(b). Note: You have two #4s in your post. Anyway, you're making the classic and often fatal mistake of underestimating your enemy. I don't need to go any further than that.

5. Again, you are underestimating the opponent. I, on the other hand, prefer to look at worst-case scenarios.

6. Really?? Seriously?? Again, this is where common sense comes into play.

7. Agree for the most part but unfortunately that's not the case 100% of the time. Again, you're treating all BGs as the same and underestimating them. Not all BGs are intimidated by somebody with a gun. Many of them have grown up dodging bullets. For those people it's second nature, and if it's one of those types that you encounter....well let's just say that I believe the pistol on your hip just became a liability.

I'm 47 yrs old. I have never once been in or around an armed robbery or the like. None of my family members have. None of my friends have. In other words, neither myself nor anyone I know has ever been in a situation where OCing would have deterred a crime. Not saying it'll never happen....just saying it's highly unlikely. On the other hand, If I do choose to OC, I'm convinced that the likelyhood of me encountering an agressive and/or ignorant LEO, a jittery citizen (who calls the LEO), or an ani-gun business owner (who calls the LEO or tells me to leave) is pretty good. I don't need the headaches involved in such an encounter, plus I prefer to retain the element of surprise.

Like I said in an earlier post - it's called "camouflage" (or "stealth" if you prefer) and it has all sorts of offensive and defensive applications. I'm pro-OC. It's just not for me.

You assume a lot about someone you dont know.

2. Metaphor you brought up. Don't dismiss a point you made that hurts your logic.

3. You used lcdr link to point out one case where an oc might have been targeted. That whole report was lop sided. One case does not make it common, therefore common sense says otherwise. Lefties say more guns in an area = more deaths, duh... common sense. Is this the common sense you are referring to?

4. News stands and convenient stores are targeted because of the easy victims...because they don't think they are armed. Links to articles of armored cars, banks, and other stores being robbed that have armed guards would be helpful if you can find any.

4b. I will know a threat when it presents itself. We have obvious differences in what we deem threatening based on our previous discussion on pitbulls. Though you say I underestimate, find me a convenient store robber who is intelligent. Good luck surprising the bad guy who already has the jump on you.

5. Worst case scenario...bad guy stabs you in the head from behind...bad guy stabs your wife multiple times...bad guy shoots your kids from a blind side...you really prepare for the worst case?

6. Really seriously since your common sense is a couple ticks above a liberal journalist...ill leave your illegitimate argument right there.

7/conclusion: lumping these two together. Some, not many, criminals have encounter firearms before. They of all criminals know it's not worth risking it against an armed person. They can get an illegal gun with far less risk than trying to steal it from an armed person. You have dug a hole with no evidence, and buried yourself with no personal experience to back up your claims.

I will halfway agree that open carry draws a certain group of bad guy, known as the police..

 

[NavyLCDR]

4. News stands and convenient stores are targeted because of the easy victims...because they don't think they are armed. Links to articles of armored cars, banks, and other stores being robbed that have armed guards would be helpful if you can find any.

I will oblige you:
Link Removed

Criminals had an inside mole that informed them when the armored car would be arriving. The criminals waited for the armored car to show up, immediately, without any warning, shot the guard and ran off with the money. Nowhere was Joe Citizen openly carrying a gun shot first in this robbery.

This was a plan to attack a high value target, for which the protective measures were known in advance. Completely 100% different scenario than a guy busting into a convenience store not expecting to find any resistance and there happens to be an armed citizen there, which they will likely never notice until it's too late such as:

Gun Owner Saves Lives In The Richmond VA Golden Market Shooting

 

[B2Tall]

You assume a lot about someone you dont know.

2. Metaphor you brought up. Don't dismiss a point you made that hurts your logic.

3. You used lcdr link to point out one case where an oc might have been targeted. That whole report was lop sided. One case does not make it common, therefore common sense says otherwise. Lefties say more guns in an area = more deaths, duh... common sense. Is this the common sense you are referring to?

4. News stands and convenient stores are targeted because of the easy victims...because they don't think they are armed. Links to articles of armored cars, banks, and other stores being robbed that have armed guards would be helpful if you can find any.

4b. I will know a threat when it presents itself. We have obvious differences in what we deem threatening based on our previous discussion on pitbulls. Though you say I underestimate, find me a convenient store robber who is intelligent. Good luck surprising the bad guy who already has the jump on you.

5. Worst case scenario...bad guy stabs you in the head from behind...bad guy stabs your wife multiple times...bad guy shoots your kids from a blind side...you really prepare for the worst case?

6. Really seriously since your common sense is a couple ticks above a liberal journalist...ill leave your illegitimate argument right there.

7/conclusion: lumping these two together. Some, not many, criminals have encounter firearms before. They of all criminals know it's not worth risking it against an armed person. They can get an illegal gun with far less risk than trying to steal it from an armed person. You have dug a hole with no evidence, and buried yourself with no personal experience to back up your claims.

I will halfway agree that open carry draws a certain group of bad guy, known as the police..

Well sir, apparently you just have oodles of experience in this matter and you seem to know exactly how every BG operates as well. You should be in law enforcement. There would be no crime whatsoever if you were. You are doing society a great disservice by wasting your time with us here on these boards when you should be pointing out all the BGs and telling LE exactly what their next move is.

 

[Grognard Gunny]

Which is also why YOU are on so many people's ignore list, in fact, you are probably on more ignore lists than anyone else........

Objection! Conjecture. Inadmissable.

GG

 

[NavyLCDR]

Well sir, apparently you just have oodles of experience in this matter and you seem to know exactly how every BG operates as well. You should be in law enforcement. There would be no crime whatsoever if you were. You are doing society a great disservice by wasting your time with us here on these boards when you should be pointing out all the BGs and telling LE exactly what their next move is.

Let's put this in a bit of perspective. How many cases of Joe Citizen open carriers do we have that have been attacked by bad guys, neglecting those who are NOT Joe Citizens that are attacked because of their positions such as armed guards and police officers? So far, two. The guy that was illegally carrying in the restaurant that served alcohol that was attacked by the nut job, and the guy in Wisconsin that was robbed in an armed robbery.

Now... how many tales of self defense do we hear about by people who had concealed firearms? Lots. It's estimated that guns are used for self defense 2.5 million times each year. So who is getting attacked that has to use their guns in self defense? It stands to reason that the vast majority of those must be cops, security guards and concealed carriers because we can find only two incidents of Joe Citizens being attacked while open carrying. It doesn't take rocket science to connect the dots.

The vast majority of attacks on open carriers are perpetrated by LEOs.

 

[Firefighterchen]

Well sir, apparently you just have oodles of experience in this matter and you seem to know exactly how every BG operates as well. You should be in law enforcement. There would be no crime whatsoever if you were. You are doing society a great disservice by wasting your time with us here on these boards when you should be pointing out all the BGs and telling LE exactly what their next move is.

Ah thanks man! Glad we cleared everything up. I would also choose a pitbull as my k9 unit like many departments do Though if I was working as an LE I would be operating as a bad guy, so no thanks.

 

[Grognard Gunny]

Those exact words could be used to describe "those Conceal Carry adherents".......


Thing is, Being bashed by Conceal Carry advocates about open carrying is worse than being bashed by anti's for carrying at all........ At least anti's are truthful about not liking guns..... From my experience on this and other forums, the Conceal Carry ONLY people seem to have a hatred for those that dont carry "THE" way that "THEY" approve of..... not much more can be said to describe them...


Being vilified by those who SHOULD have a big enough clue about our RIGHTS to at least acknowledge (like you have, ty) that we should all carry the way we, as individuals, want to.... will not be tolerated (IOW, I wont be silent about it)

Now where in the world did you come to the conclusion that I was anti-open carry? I never so stated, alluded to or even brought up the topic for discussion.

In fact, if you care to FOLLOW my posts without getting all worked up about them, I even stated that I could care less about whether or not you carry openly or concealed. I even stated that if it was OK for you, fine with me.

Damn! Answering baseless (mindless) personal attacks was what caused me to post my P.S. above about "knee jerk reactions" and getting into a defensive mode when folks don't take your seering "knowledge" with the same level of ferver you demonstrate.

Then you start "going on" about your "rights". I know what your "rights" are, as well as I do mine. I think it comes under the heading of attitude check. The squid with the id's signature seems to sum it up rather nicely. "Don't like my gun? Have a tissue!" Exercise of one's Rights without concern for ANYONE else's input on the matter. Certainly within your "Rights". Certainly indicates a level of self centeredness. Most assuredly makes you obnoxious. Again, within your "Rights".

Me? I'd just as soon try to "get along" with my fellow humans. Some folks won't take "yes" for an answer, though. From you, all I get is attitude.

Just who I want to see on the street, a "gunslinger" with an attitude. LOL! (In common parlance, a "fanatic".)

GG

 

[Grognard Gunny]

Being civil with antis is what has gotten us here in the first place.......

Those spreading rumors and lies as fact will be pointed out/exposed for what/who they are.

Someone without much knowledge/experience could be reading this type pf forum... and may take bad advice if it isnt pointed out and dealt with....That bad advice (in some cases/subject, not necessarily this particular thread) could actually cost them their life if they take it as the truth.....


Those that keep repeating that which has been proven false are worse than anti-gunners in my book. At least anti-gunners say they hate guns..... some on here have no clue what Constitutional Rights really are, not to mention how life actually works in the real world, all they ever do is repeat what their teachers/instructors told them as the gospel and refuse to accept anything else.......

Exactly demonstrative of my point. Beware the self appointed holder of all knowledge, for rest assured he/she is NOT!

GG

 

[Grognard Gunny]

But, I tire of the prattle. So to bed, perchance to dream.... maybe of "gunslingers" with attitudes.

"Is that you John Wayne?" LOL!

GG

 

[Axeanda45]

Now where in the world did you come to the conclusion that I was anti-open carry? I never so stated, alluded to or even brought up the topic for discussion.

In fact, if you care to FOLLOW my posts without getting all worked up about them, I even stated that I could care less about whether or not you carry openly or concealed. I even stated that if it was OK for you, fine with me.

Damn! Answering baseless (mindless) personal attacks was what caused me to post my P.S. above about "knee jerk reactions" and getting into a defensive mode when folks don't take your seering "knowledge" with the same level of ferver you demonstrate.

Then you start "going on" about your "rights". I know what your "rights" are, as well as I do mine. I think it comes under the heading of attitude check. The squid with the id's signature seems to sum it up rather nicely. "Don't like my gun? Have a tissue!" Exercise of one's Rights without concern for ANYONE else's input on the matter. Certainly within your "Rights". Certainly indicates a level of self centeredness. Most assuredly makes you obnoxious. Again, within your "Rights".

Me? I'd just as soon try to "get along" with my fellow humans. Some folks won't take "yes" for an answer, though. From you, all I get is attitude.

Just who I want to see on the street, a "gunslinger" with an attitude. LOL! (In common parlance, a "fanatic".)

GG

You failed to notice the part in the last few sentences where I acknowledged your personal viewpoint... I was quoting you to respond about how those same tired arguments keep coming up is all....

Link Removed Originally Posted by Axeanda45 Link Removed
Those exact words could be used to describe "those Conceal Carry adherents".......


Thing is, Being bashed by Conceal Carry advocates about open carrying is worse than being bashed by anti's for carrying at all........ At least anti's are truthful about not liking guns..... From my experience on this and other forums, the Conceal Carry ONLY people seem to have a hatred for those that dont carry "THE" way that "THEY" approve of..... not much more can be said to describe them...


Being vilified by those who SHOULD have a big enough clue about our RIGHTS to at least acknowledge (like you have, ty) that we should all carry the way we, as individuals, want to.... will not be tolerated (IOW, I wont be silent about it)

 

[Ed Hamberger]

OC & CC are both legal in NC, I've worn my Handgun both ways but chose CC as my carry method, nuff said!

 

[NavyLCDR]

OC & CC are both legal in NC, I've worn my Handgun both ways but chose CC as my carry method, nuff said!

Exactly! I agree 100%

 

[rifleshooter474]

As I said before the less others see the better off one is. After 11 Months of going down to the Court House and a full jury trial.
If that jerk had not seen my Glock, he would not have been able to say it was pointed at him.

You can bet I am super careful now about not allowing anyone to see my carry now.

 

[NRA Rep]

I have nothing at all against Open Carry! As Tuckers Mom said, you will definitely lose the element of surprise. As a former Marine this is something you want to help tip the scales in your favor! If you seem to be having problems accessing your firearm from its concealed position the best thing to do is practice drawing it from your holster a couple hours a day. Practice makes perfect! I would also recommend working on your speed reloads, you can never be to safe and rely only on that one mag. SEMPER FI, Clint

 

[Firefighterchen]

I have nothing at all against Open Carry! As Tuckers Mom said, you will definitely lose the element of surprise. As a former Marine this is something you want to help tip the scales in your favor! If you seem to be having problems accessing your firearm from its concealed position the best thing to do is practice drawing it from your holster a couple hours a day. Practice makes perfect! I would also recommend working on your speed reloads, you can never be to safe and rely only on that one mag. SEMPER FI, Clint

Good post. Practice until you are comfortable drawing your firearm. Practice until you master your draw. Practice enough to know how long it takes to draw. Practice until you are confident. Then practice more, because complacency is your worst enemy.

I just don't know about the surprise portion. I can't see it working. Can those that believe you lose the surprise aspect give your best " what if " scenario.