Flip 'Em The Bird And Die Like A Viking

[Peregrine Falcon]

Wow....

I've seen a pattern that this thread fits into rather well. A couple of otherwise wellmeaning people disagree on a arguable point; attempt to discuss it and then the whole thing degenerates into name calling and all the logic that usually WAS there is totally gone. When I started reading this thread I was doing a lot of thinking and learning; when I reached the end I found myself laughing regularly. If people could stay civil discussions wouldn't have to end that way.

Interesting reading but the excercise has one massive flaw - it assumes that armed robbers always shoot their victims. This is about as far from the truth as it gets.

I brought this up in a previous thread a while back - according to official FBI stats, their latest figures (from a couple of years ago) listed approx 400,000 robberies involving a gun. 2000 people were murdered in these robberies. That's one-half of one percent. In 99.5% of the armed robberies, nobody was killed.

This was a decent point but contains one possible misunderstanding (notice I went back to the beginning of the thread to find logic). First of all the original point of the thread was for Treo to point out the source of his signature before being misunderstood and/or flamed; the above comment has no real bearing on this. Second, the point of the exercise was to practice a "no win scenario." No win scenario's are likely a minority of situations any of us will ever face (thank goodness) which would fit nicely into the half percent noted above. If we assume that the statistics above are real world (I haven't bothered to attempt to verify them); they destroy the point of the exercise as soon as you try to include them. The practice scenario noted in the article is to address what would happen in the (possibly unlikely) event that you find yourself stuck in that half percent situation where you really would be killed in a robbery.

I think it's safe to say that most of us carry weapons to be prepared for "anything;" 99.5% is not everything. Why not practice for that extra half percent?

 

[FN1910]

I have to say that you did a great job in describing this thread, I don't know exactly why but it does not matter what one posts on the Internet someone is:
Going to get offended
Going to argue with you
Going to tell you that you are stupid and crazy for thinking that way
Tell you that they agree with you
Tell you that you left something very important out
Tell you that you are just rambling and could have said it all in one sentence
Read only the first few words of your post and base all their responses on that
Post a link to some site that refutes your idea
Tell you that you need to prove it by providing a link to back it up
Completely misunderstand you and spend hours trying to tell you what you should have said
Eventually accuse someone of being a troll

I would say this applies to any gun related forum but it seems to apply to almost any Internet forum. I do see that one of the biggest, if not the biggest, hinderance of getting any pro-gun legislation passed is the pro-gun people themselves arguing over anything that is not exactly like they think it should be then shooting the messenger rather than trying to work within the system to get things passed. No compromise is alive and well in the gun community but the problem is that there is 100 different no compromise solutions and the 99 that don't get their way do everything possible to tear down anyone trying to help.

I know this is a little off the subject but this thread demonstrates how far apart gun owners are on such little issues and how far they will go to prove their point and tear the other side down. Is it any wonder that politicians refuse to consider trying to support changes in gun laws. No matter what one side or the other is going to try to throw them out next election for either going to far or not far enough.

 

[B2Tall]

This was a decent point but contains one possible misunderstanding (notice I went back to the beginning of the thread to find logic). First of all the original point of the thread was for Treo to point out the source of his signature before being misunderstood and/or flamed; the above comment has no real bearing on this. Second, the point of the exercise was to practice a "no win scenario." No win scenario's are likely a minority of situations any of us will ever face (thank goodness) which would fit nicely into the half percent noted above. If we assume that the statistics above are real world (I haven't bothered to attempt to verify them); they destroy the point of the exercise as soon as you try to include them. The practice scenario noted in the article is to address what would happen in the (possibly unlikely) event that you find yourself stuck in that half percent situation where you really would be killed in a robbery.

I think it's safe to say that most of us carry weapons to be prepared for "anything;" 99.5% is not everything. Why not practice for that extra half percent?

What's the point of practicing a "no win" scenario when we already know that you.........can't win. It's like having an airline drill its crews on what to do if both wings fall off at 35,000 ft. Why bother?? We know what the outcome will be.

The OP presented this scenario as a reasoning for his (supposed) agressiveness in an armed robbery situation. I merely pointed out that the scenario represented a tiny fraction of armed robberies and was far from typical. To treat every scenario as a "no win" is suicidal IMO.

 

[Deanimator]

What's the point of practicing a "no win" scenario when we already know that you.........can't win. It's like having an airline drill its crews on what to do if both wings fall off at 35,000 ft. Why bother?? We know what the outcome will be.

Because sometimes, people DO win the "no win" scenario.

Read the book "Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors" for one of the best examples of which I'm aware.

Those who plan for defeat usually obtain it.

 

[Treo]

What's the point of practicing a "no win" scenario when we already know that you.........can't win. It's like having an airline drill its crews on what to do if both wings fall off at 35,000 ft. Why bother?? We know what the outcome will be.

The OP presented this scenario as a reasoning for his (supposed) agressiveness in an armed robbery situation. I merely pointed out that the scenario represented a tiny fraction of armed robberies and was far from typical. To treat every scenario as a "no win" is suicidal IMO.

You need to go back and read the article, in atleast one of the go rounds the author did ,in fact, survive.

Also, you may end up in a " no win" scenario someday if that happens what will you do? You always have a better chance trying than doing nothing

 

[Beau]

I recently read a new story where a shopkeeper was confronted by 3 armed attackers. He fought his way to his shotgun with his pistol. He won and lived. He was shot three times.

Moral of the story: There is no "No Win" scenario. Flip em' the bird and die, but maybe live, like a viking!

 

[Peregrine Falcon]

Flip 'Em The Bird And Die Like A Viking

I occasionally get taken to task over my sig line, usually by someone who doesn’t understand it or thinks it's a “random tough guy quote” or that I’m looking to piss off road ragers.

It actually came from the above article it was also the last post I ever made on the OLD THR (ironic huh?)

Anyway the linked article here is where the line came from.

B2Tall: The above quote is from the original post and explains the reason for posting the article. The above has nothing to do with planning to be agressive in an armed robbery situation.

As far as why practice a no-win scenario; there have been some good answers. I wanted to point out what "James T Kirk" had to say when someone asked him the same question; "How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life."

That may not be an exact quote and I don't USUALLY quote movies for wisdom but I thought he had a point worth sharing.

 

[Hamilton Felix]

Dust off your copy of Cooper's "Principles of Personal Defense."

Read the section on Aggressiveness.

 

[B2Tall]

I think some people on these boards spend a little too much time playing "HALO" or "Call of Duty" and watching movies like "Commando".

I truly hope for them as well as the people around them that they don't use their video-game-action-hero mentality when confronted with a situation that may require a little more tact and thought than drawing a gun and blasting away. If not there's a good chance that not only will they end up dead but so might a family member or some other bystander.

But hey....it's not every day you get a chance to die like a hero as well as giving those around you a chance to die like heroes too. How thoughtful.

 

[Deanimator]

I think some people on these boards spend a little too much time playing "HALO" or "Call of Duty" and watching movies like "Commando".

I truly hope for them as well as the people around them that they don't use their video-game-action-hero mentality when confronted with a situation that may require a little more tact and thought than drawing a gun and blasting away. If not there's a good chance that not only will they end up dead but so might a family member or some other bystander.

But hey....it's not every day you get a chance to die like a hero as well as giving those around you a chance to die like heroes too. How thoughtful.

NO plan I have or ever WILL have is contingent upon an armed robber doing the "right" thing. His BEING an armed robber ruled that out from the start.