Inform the officer or not when concealed carry?

[Treo]

Read this on several different forums! Not believable! Mag release same spot on all autos!! Am I wrong?

He is not going to take the time to take all the bullets out of the mag.!

Sorry guys but I couldn't let this go, I tried.

I’m not 100% sure but it sounds to me like you’re saying you don’t believe the poster you’re quoting.

As it sounds like you point out he’s not the only person who has related a similar experience they can’t all be liars.

As to the topic at hand I imagine this debate has been going on as long as people have been carrying concealed firearms. I believe that there is a certain subset of permit holders that view their permit as the membership card of a secret fraternity and they can not wait to whip it out for a cop.

I , on the other hand, never inform unless I am asked directly or legally required to do so.

 

[mrjam2jab]

"NOT telling an LEO that your carrying" lessens the chance that the officer is going to ask you to exit the vehicle, disarm you, frisk you and search the area of the vehicle from which another weapon may be readily obtained, hold your gun until the end of the stop and then return it with the magazine unloaded and instruct you to not load it until he/she leaves.

and, in a small way, you have supported the 4th amendment because it is none of the officer's business what I am LAWFULLY carrying.

and...if you're in PA....and they decide to "run the numbers"...and discover "it's not registered"....then you open up another can of worms...

For those that don't know...PA does not have a "registry" but a "sales database" ...and there are a # of legitimate reasons why a firearm may not be on that list...

 

[Conrad]

Here in Indiana my license lives in the same compartment of my wallet as my drivers license. If I have to show one to a police officer they get both. I've never gotten anything but respect and thanks for the police officers I have delt with. On the other hand in Illinois " I know nothing"

 

[NavyLCDR]

and...if you're in PA....and they decide to "run the numbers"...and discover "it's not registered"....then you open up another can of worms...

For those that don't know...PA does not have a "registry" but a "sales database" ...and there are a # of legitimate reasons why a firearm may not be on that list...

The same is true in Washington. I think LEOs here, though, know the database the Department of Licensing maintains is completely useless and I have not heard of any stories of someone being hassled over a gun that does not match the owner listed in the database. I just wish they would quit wasting resources and money on their useless database.

 

[antietam]

re "courtesy" to LEOs

“Courtesy to the LEO” is a mantra often seen on these forums and I think overused and a bit jingoistic. I see LEOs as nothing more than hired public servants who applied for the job. If we extol them too much, which we do, we subordinate our own citizenship and encourage a police state. It’s too late to promote a citizen-based police environment, which would have been far more effective. We’ve made a profession out of everything, including politicians. LEOs shouldn’t be treated with any more or less “courtesy” than anybody else. One shouldn’t do or say anything to anybody to intimidate, disrespect or send a message of aggression – unless you’re defending yourself or another. I know, the “dangers of the profession” will come up. It’s been argued that electricians, farmers and 7-11 cashiers have far more dangerous jobs per hour than police and fire fighters but those folks don’t have a patsy media pumping them up in front of the citizenry all the time.
If law says to proactively inform the LEO that you’re carrying, then do it; constitutionality of doing so to be determined in different venues. If law doesn’t exist to proactively inform, then don’t. I’m suspicious of those enamored by authority. We’re a nation malnourished of history. Were it not so we’d appreciate the power of our citizenship; wearing that characteristic would have kept government in servitude and in fear of the people. We now serve it [government], and apparently fear it.

 

[Snowman1911]

Read this on several different forums! Not believable! Mag release same spot on all autos!! Am I wrong?

He is not going to take the time to take all the bullets out of the mag.!

Sorry guys but I couldn't let this go, I tried.

Sorry to be the pin that pops your balloon....but

1. No...the mag release is NOT on the same spot on all autos.
a) standard "American" thumb release on frame behind trigger guard
b) european heel release on bottom of grip frame...P-38, older Sig 220, Ruger MkII...etc...etc...
c) funky old Beretta push button on bottom corner of grip frame
d) HK ambi release on USP that pivots downward, which can also be found on Walther P22 and their new 380
e) Ruger P Series ambi slotted button that one pushes forward
f) Smith & Wesson 422 which has a push button on the front strap of the grip frame
g) and on and on and on and on

Yes...in some jurisdictions departmental policy supports, if not requires the officer to unload "ammunition feeding devices"...even speedloaders for revolvers, thinking being that the officer is vulnerable when the stop has officially ended and is returning to his cruiser. It wasn't mandated by my department...but other local agencies it was policy.

I rarely ever took the gun from a subject on a traffic stop IF he passed the attitude test and informed me he was carrying. My answer to that 99.999999999999999% of the time was.."Thanks for letting me know, remember, if you don't play with yours, I won't have to play with mine" I said it in a friendly way to ease the tension and more often than not, the subject got a warning to slow down or fix his tail light, or whatever, and "Have a good night, and be safe."

So...yeah it could happen, it DOES happen. Not all cops are "gun guys" and aren't familiar with any other weapon than the one they carry. I have seen veteran officers fumble with their OWN guns while I was a training officer. So, get up off the boy.

 

[Treo]

Of all the states that allow CC only 10 require you to notify the officer during a police interaction. I think that's significant, we're at, what 45- 47 states that allow ccw? and only 10 feel that Officer safety is enhanced by requiring notification. In many states (Colorado included) no permit is required to carry a concealed weapon in your vehicle, how would a law requiring notification by permit holders affect them? More significantly, how would such a law affect the thousands of criminal who ignore every other gun law on the books on a daily basis?

I can't see how informing a police officer you're heeled can do anything but escalate tensions, especially if you win the lottery and inform an officer who thinks anyone with a CCW is a wannabe cop.

There's no benefit to me if I voluntarily inform so I don't. I'm required to produce my permit and a valid I.D if I'm asked that would be the only time I would do so.

I also think threads like this don't change people's minds at all, sheep are sheep it's in their nature it's who they are.

 

[bobbyk]

I would pull over and roll down my window and place both hands out the window, to show him that I had nothing in my hands, and definitely tell the officer I had my CCW and tell him where the weapon was located. When they stop you they don't know if you are the bad guy or the good guy . I don't want to give them any surprises. They plan on going home that night and I don't want to freak them out in anyway at all.

 

[NavyLCDR]

This thread really needs to be closed. 38 pages of people saying the same things over and over again. The don't tell crowd has made up their mind and is not going to be swayed. The do tell crowd has made up their mind and is not going to be swayed. The fence sitters have been presented with every bit of information possible and if they can't get off the fence it is because they are incapable of making a decision, not because both sides have not presented everything under the sun possible.

 

[Rocketgeezer]

I've gotten a 10 min lecture on how a particular SC LEO thought that it was unfair that he had to pay an extra $5 for his duty belt because it was a size larger than 48 inches. :lazy2::lazy2:

:haha:

 

[maybejim]

I still dont see how. If it's not mentioned is that any more dangerous?

It's actually less dangerous because you're not likely to have a cop who may not be familiar with your gun trying to unload it.

 

[HunterLee]

This thread really needs to be closed. 38 pages of people saying the same things over and over again. The don't tell crowd has made up their mind and is not going to be swayed. The do tell crowd has made up their mind and is not going to be swayed. The fence sitters have been presented with every bit of information possible and if they can't get off the fence it is because they are incapable of making a decision, not because both sides have not presented everything under the sun possible.

I am not sure how states other than Mississippi retain Firearm Permit information; if you are the owner of a vehicle that is being pulled over, and are driving it, and have a Firearms permit; the LEO will know before he/she ever faces you if you have a permit (and then, more than likely, a firearm in the vehicle). If you are pulled over driving someone else's vehicle, whether or not you let them know you have a permit is mute, "AFTER" they have run your License; because dispatch will notify them instantly if you do. You are also required to notify them when pulled over; the best method is to hand over your driver’s license AND CCW / Firearms Permit (whatever your state calls it), when the LEO requests your ID. As I stated in another thread, I have never had any problems; I hand over BOTH ID's, and when asked if I have, and where the firearm is (I point to and explain its location). I have never had any LEO ask for (or take) any firearm while being stopped, written up, or questioned. The idea that the LEO does not know, or understand the legal carry laws in the state that they work, is ridiculous. It is common respect AND courtesy to let the LEO that has pulled you over know that you have a firearm and a permit. Just because he/she is an LEO does not mean you must instantly have an attitude about them. They are doing a "Job" that is a part of being a civilized capitalistic conservitive "Democracy". Remember, it was YOU that did something to warrant them pulling you over, and it was not personal, because more than likely, they do not know you. By the way I am NOT an LEO. I am an .....(you can read that in my statistics).

 

[mrjam2jab]

I am not sure how states other than Mississippi retain Firearm Permit information; if you are the owner of a vehicle that is being pulled over, and are driving it, and have a Firearms permit; the LEO will know before he/she ever faces you if you have a permit (and then, more than likely, a firearm in the vehicle). If you are pulled over driving someone else's vehicle, whether or not you let them know you have a permit is mute, "AFTER" they have run your License; because dispatch will notify them instantly if you do. You are also required to notify them when pulled over; the best method is to hand over your driver’s license AND CCW / Firearms Permit (whatever your state calls it), when the LEO requests your ID. As I stated in another thread, I have never had any problems; I hand over BOTH ID's, and when asked if I have, and where the firearm is (I point to and explain its location). I have never had any LEO ask for (or take) any firearm while being stopped, written up, or questioned. The idea that the LEO does not know, or understand the legal carry laws in the state that they work, is ridiculous. It is common respect AND courtesy to let the LEO that has pulled you over know that you have a firearm and a permit. Just because he/she is an LEO does not mean you must instantly have an attitude about them. They are doing a "Job" that is a part of being a civilized capitalistic conservitive "Democracy". Remember, it was YOU that did something to warrant them pulling you over, and it was not personal, because more than likely, they do not know you. By the way I am NOT an LEO. I am an .....(you can read that in my statistics).

For both bold.....WHY?

 

[Washburn]

Presenting CPL to LEO

I've been a Michigan CPL holder for the past year and according to the Leo’s that taught my CPL class, we didn't have to inform an LEO unless we were actually carrying. From last spring until now I've been stopped 9 times by Leo’s and have had my license ran every time, but surprisingly I was never carrying at those moments, so I never informed the Leo’s that I had my CPL and I was never asked about it. I was in my personal vehicle as well. It wasn't until the last stop in august that the LEO that ran my license got out of his car very swiftly and started questioning me about the location of my pistol. I told him I was on my way out to the local college for class and informed him that i never carried out there. I was on a sport bike and had a backpack that I opened for him and unzipped my jacket since he didn’t seem to believe me. He gave me a short lecture about presenting my CPL at every request whether I was carrying or not. I told him I’ve never been asked about it before but would from now on do so. He asked what my major was (Law Enforcement) and said oh, well have a nice day, and took off. So not sure if every LEO has the same desire to see your CPL but I thought I was going to get my face plastered on his hood because he thought i was lying about not carrying. I didn't get my CPL to mess around and I think most CPL holders are responsible enough to not have Leo’s in their face. I can't say a whole lot, because by next year I'll be in their shoes!

 

[mrjam2jab]

I've been a Michigan CPL holder for the past year and according to the Leo’s that taught my CPL class, we didn't have to inform an LEO unless we were actually carrying. From last spring until now I've been stopped 9 times by Leo’s and have had my license ran every time, but surprisingly I was never carrying at those moments, so I never informed the Leo’s that I had my CPL and I was never asked about it. I was in my personal vehicle as well. It wasn't until the last stop in august that the LEO that ran my license got out of his car very swiftly and started questioning me about the location of my pistol. I told him I was on my way out to the local college for class and informed him that i never carried out there. I was on a sport bike and had a backpack that I opened for him and unzipped my jacket since he didn’t seem to believe me. He gave me a short lecture about presenting my CPL at every request whether I was carrying or not. I told him I’ve never been asked about it before but would from now on do so. He asked what my major was (Law Enforcement) and said oh, well have a nice day, and took off. So not sure if every LEO has the same desire to see your CPL but I thought I was going to get my face plastered on his hood because he thought i was lying about not carrying. I didn't get my CPL to mess around and I think most CPL holders are responsible enough to not have Leo’s in their face. I can't say a whole lot, because by next year I'll be in their shoes!

LEO on the street was just on a power trip.

MI 28.425f

28.425f Concealed pistol license; possession; disclosure to police officer; violation; penalty; seizure; forfeiture; "peace officer" defined.

Sec. 5f.

(1) An individual who is licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol shall have his or her license to carry that pistol in his or her possession at all times he or she is carrying a concealed pistol.

(2) An individual who is licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol and who is carrying a concealed pistol shall show both of the following to a peace officer upon request by that peace officer:

(a) His or her license to carry a concealed pistol.

(b) His or her driver license or Michigan personal identification card.

(3) An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol and who is carrying a concealed pistol and who is stopped by a peace officer shall immediately disclose to the peace officer that he or she is carrying a pistol concealed upon his or her person or in his or her vehicle.

 

[blacksharkL82]

It depends on where you are. Some states require notification, some do not. That's the first determiner.

If I were in one of the counties known to be gun friendly I might notify but not to a young cop. I've heard too many stories on cops who want to take possession of the gun, unload it, and who have no familiarity with guns other than the one they carry.

Had a situation a while back.
My wife, was in a rehab center, recovering from a stroke.
I was there, at least 10 hours a day at diff times of day and night.
I always carry.
On the last day, on our way out of the center, 5 cop cars arrived and stopped me, at gun point.
What the hell is going on?
Some one, called me in. A man with a gun!
I put my hands up and told them wherer the gun was.
This young boy, wearing a badge, took my S&W M37, out of my waist band. He tried to take it out of the holster with a thum snap and couldn't, so he yanked everything ouit.
He didnt know about thum snaps?
One of the older cops, knew me and tried to talk to tyhe kid.
The kid, removed the ammo and snapped the cylinder shut.
What a dork.
Later, when all was done, the kid put my gun in my trunk ammo next to it and told me to leave.
The older cop, told him to step aside and retrived the gun, reloaded it and placed it in my holster. He thern handed me the package and told me to be safe.
Would I tell a LEO, I was carring?
Let them ask me if I am.

 

[Treo]

. The idea that the LEO does not know, or understand the legal carry laws in the state that they work, is ridiculous.

I've had Colorado cops look my right in the eye and swear on their mother's life that I have a legal duty to inform in Colorado.

Now according to CRS18-12-204 they either have no clue what they're talking about or they're lying.

That said, I agree Navy LT the tell /don't tell horse is quite dead there's no point in beating it further if you're a sheep , you're a sheep and your nature isn't going to change because of a post on the internet.

 

[mrjam2jab]

I've had Colorado cops look my right in the eye and swear on their mother's life that I have a legal duty to inform in Colorado.

Now according to CRS18-12-204 they either have no clue what they're talking about or they're lying.

That said, I agree Navy LT the tell /don't tell horse is quite dead there's no point in beating it further if you're a sheep , you're a sheep and your nature isn't going to change because of a post on the internet.

Here's another example of cops not knowing the law

 

[ijon]

Don't tell

I've been a Michigan CPL holder for the past year and according to the Leo’s that taught my CPL class, we didn't have to inform an LEO unless we were actually carrying. From last spring until now I've been stopped 9 times by Leo’s and have had my license ran every time, but surprisingly I was never carrying at those moments, so I never informed the Leo’s that I had my CPL and I was never asked about it. I was in my personal vehicle as well. It wasn't until the last stop in august that the LEO that ran my license got out of his car very swiftly and started questioning me about the location of my pistol. I told him I was on my way out to the local college for class and informed him that i never carried out there. I was on a sport bike and had a backpack that I opened for him and unzipped my jacket since he didn’t seem to believe me. He gave me a short lecture about presenting my CPL at every request whether I was carrying or not. I told him I’ve never been asked about it before but would from now on do so. He asked what my major was (Law Enforcement) and said oh, well have a nice day, and took off. So not sure if every LEO has the same desire to see your CPL but I thought I was going to get my face plastered on his hood because he thought i was lying about not carrying. I didn't get my CPL to mess around and I think most CPL holders are responsible enough to not have Leo’s in their face. I can't say a whole lot, because by next year I'll be in their shoes!

When I took my cpl class three years ago the leo said they took your gun when you did't tell them you had a cpl.

 

[zosimo yee]

I think you need to inform the police officer if you have cwp at front than hide it from him just in case he search your car then you don't get in trouble . As long as you don't violet the law you're okey .leasantry: