Why can't military members carry personal weapons on bases?
- Thread starter MiB602
- Start date
Thank you, Reba. I hadn't seen the latest on the TSgt's background.
This has got to be one of the dumbest statements:
"It was unclear how Bellino got the guns onto the base, where officials have said only military police are allowed to be armed and individuals are checked as they enter the gates."
Individuals are checked for identity and authorization to enter a base, but vehicles are only searched randomly. There's a "no firearms" sign at the gate, too. Why didn't that stop him?
This has got to be one of the dumbest statements:
"It was unclear how Bellino got the guns onto the base, where officials have said only military police are allowed to be armed and individuals are checked as they enter the gates."
Individuals are checked for identity and authorization to enter a base, but vehicles are only searched randomly. There's a "no firearms" sign at the gate, too. Why didn't that stop him?
sdprof
Active member
They must have been those magic Glocks that aren't affected by no gun signs. Glock 7, right?
Just like any other place that thinks a sign is a solution, military bases are no more safe from bad actors than schools, malls, hospitals, banks, and so on and so on.
In the past 43 years of active duty and retirement, I've seen the random searches occurring at AF bases a bare handful of times. Only once was I ever the lucky participant. I only go on the local base once or twice a month now, for the past 18 years, and only saw searching going on once. That said, I'm not chancing it. My gun stays at home when I go to the base.
Just like any other place that thinks a sign is a solution, military bases are no more safe from bad actors than schools, malls, hospitals, banks, and so on and so on.
In the past 43 years of active duty and retirement, I've seen the random searches occurring at AF bases a bare handful of times. Only once was I ever the lucky participant. I only go on the local base once or twice a month now, for the past 18 years, and only saw searching going on once. That said, I'm not chancing it. My gun stays at home when I go to the base.
Flat out. They don't trust you. I was attached to 2/3 ACR in 92 just after Desert Storm (I was in Korea during the "exercise".) When I was at the armory getting issued my A2, there were 2 Sgt's playing shootout with their weapons outside the armory. In the following 6 months, one guy got arrested for shipping an AK he had smuggled back in the door panel of a truck to his father (who we were told was also arrested) and another who shot himself in the leg with a Makarov (also smuggled back) in the barracks. Another lost his Beretta on a training exercise. To be honest, firearms training was not very high on the training list when I was in the Army, and it was very low when when I was in the Navy attached to the Marines. Old Joke: What's the most dangerous thing a Marine faces while in combat? A Corpsman with a 45.
Here is a summary by the Military Times on where we stand now with arming military personnel, one year after the attack in Chattanooga:
Chattanooga, one year later: Are troops any safer?
Chattanooga, one year later: Are troops any safer?
Rhino
New member
It figures. They've basically done nothing, and they're putting people's lives at risk for the sake of political correctness. I wonder how many may have to die before they wake up. Maybe they never will. Parts of that article would be really funny if there weren't lives at stake. Like this:
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That's actually a caption for a picture, which would be even funnier when you realize the door is glass. So even if the bar did work, it still wouldn't provide any protection whatsoever since the glass isn't bulletproof.
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The entire premise of their effort is faulty anyway, as the article indicates in the first paragraph. "... the Defense Department is still grappling with how best to protect troops at outlying facilities." Since when are military personnel only vulnerable at outlying facilities? Military installations and their inhabitants are vulnerable to shootings and they always have been.
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Camp Shenango Shooting, 1942
During World War II, racial tensions between black and white soldiers often escalated into violence. One of the worst of these incidents was a shooting at Camp Shenango, a replacement soldier training depot outside Pittsburgh. On July 12, 1943, a racially-based dispute at the base’s post office turned into a riot, as black soldiers stormed the armory to grab weapons and arm themselves. In the ensuing melee, a black soldier was shot dead by a white MP, and many others (the number isn’t fully known) were injured.
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Phoenix Massacre, 1942
In a shooting generally known as the “Phoenix Massacre,” black soldiers of the 364th Infantry Regiment (the US armed forces were segregated until 1947) were fired on by black MPs at Camp Papago Park in Arizona. At least three men, including a civilian on the base, were killed and scores of others were wounded. Rumors persist that many more black soldiers were killed, and that the shootings were covered up by the Army.
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Camp Van Dorn Shooting, 1943
Camp Van Dorn in Mississippi saw racial tension involving the 364th continue, and culminate with a black soldier shot dead by the County Sherriff outside the base in July, 1943. Rumors persist to this day that the US Army systematically massacred the rest of the unit to put an end to the racial problems that followed them, but this has never been conclusively proven.
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World War II Fort Dix Shootings
Another racially charged shooting incident took place at Fort Dix in New Jersey in 1942, when an argument between white and black MP’s over the use of a phone booth turned into a gun battle that killed three men. Fort Dix also saw three soldiers killed in a brawl at the Fort Dix USO during a dance.
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Fort Knox Shooting, 1993
On October 18, 1993, Fort Knox civilian employee Arthur Hill went on a shooting rampage at the base’s Training Support Center. Hill killed three people and wounded two others before shooting and severely wounding himself in the bathroom of a VA office. Prior to the incident, Hill's coworkers had claimed they were afraid of a mentally unstable person who was at work. Hill died three days later of his self-inflicted gunshot wound.
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Fairchild Air Force Base, 1994
Airman Dean Mellberg opened fire at the Fairchild Air Force Base hospital outside Spokane, WA in June 1994, killing four people and wounding 23 before a security officer shot and killed him. Mellberg had been facing dishonorable discharge from the Air Force because of mental problems stemming from chronic masturbation. One of the victims of his rampage was an eight-year-old girl.
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Naval Air Systems Command, 1995
In March 1995, civilian Navy worker Ernest J. Cooper Jr., shot and wounded two co-workers at Naval Air Systems Command in Arlington, VA. He then shot himself in the head and died. One of the victims, Nils F. "Fred" Salvesen, was Cooper's supervisor and the first to be shot, and the other was a high-ranking naval officer who happened to be sitting near Cooper.
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Fort Bragg, 1995
Sgt. William J. Kreutzer Jr. went on a shooting spree at Fort Bragg, NC, on October 27, 1995, killing one officer and wounding 18 soldiers. Both the shooter and victims were members of the 82nd Airborne Division, gunned down during their morning physical training exercises. Kreutzer was disarmed by Special Forces troops on the base and convicted of murder. He was sentenced to life in prison.
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Little Rock Recruiting Center, 2009
Self-described Islamic radical Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad, born Carlos Leon Bledsoe, opened fire on a military recruiting center in Little Rock, AR, on June 1, 2009, while driving by in his car. He killed Army private William Long and Private Quinton Ezeagwula. Muhammad was caught after driving his car into a construction site, and claimed he committed the shooting as part of a jihad. He was sentenced to life in prison.
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Fort Hood Party Shooting, 2009
In July, 2009, Army Sgt. Ryan Schlack was shot while trying to break up a fight during a party at Fort Hood, TX. A fellow soldier, Spc. Armano Baca, was convicted of the murder and is serving 20 years in prison. Both Schack and Baca were veterans of the Iraq War, and recently returned to the United States.
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Fort Hood Massacre, 2009
Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan carried out the largest mass murder at a military installation in American history, opening fire on dozens of unarmed soldiers inside a medical deployment center at Fort Hood, on November 5, 2009. Thirteen were killed and another 32 were wounded as Hasan sprayed bullets from an automatic pistol. Hasan was eventually shot by a civilian police officer, found guilty of murder and sentenced to death.
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Pentagon Drive-By Shooting, 2011
Marine Corps reservist Yonathan Melaku committed a series of drive-by shootings at the Pentagon and other military facilities in Virginia, none of which resulted in casualties. When law enforcement agents arrested him in 2011, he was carrying a backpack full of bomb-making materials, along with spray paint he was planning to use to deface Iraq War veteran graves. Melaku was sentenced to 25 years in prison.
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Fort Drum, 2011
Fort Drum, NY soldier Sgt. Jason Seeds allegedly shot his wife in the back and head during a dispute at their home on the base in 2011. She lived, and explained later that her husband had suffered from deteriorating mental health after three tours in Iraq.
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Fort Campbell, 2012
Spc. Rico Rawls Jr., allegedly shot and killed his wife, Jessica Rawls, at their home at Fort Campbell, KY., in April, 2012. Rawls then led police on a highway chase into Georgia and was arrested, but not before he shot himself – a wound that eventually proved fatal. Rawls’s family members believed he was suffering from PTSD after two tours in Iraq.
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Fort Carson, 2012
In May, 2012, a soldier at Fort Carson in Colorado was shot by a fellow service member after he lost control of his car and crashed it into the home of another, injuring a woman inside. A fight broke out, then the soldier whose home was damaged opened fire on the driver. Three people were wounded, including the shooter, who was struck by one of his own bullets.
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Fort Bragg, 2012
Spc. Ricky Elder was facing larceny charges and a court martial for stealing a tool kit off his base a Fort Bragg. In July, 2012, Elder shot and killed his battalion commander, Lt. Col. Roy L. Tisdale, during a safety briefing, then turned the gun on himself. Elder had been deployed in both Iraq and Afghanistan, and had suffered a head wound in Iraq, which he believed had given him dementia.
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Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson, 2012
After a night of heavy drinking on Christmas Eve, 2012, Spc. Marshall D. Drake, a soldier at Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson in Alaska, accidentally shot Pfc. Grant Wise in the face, killing him. Drake was sentenced to 12 years in a military prison for involuntary manslaughter.
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Quantico OCS, 2013
In March 2013, Marine tactics instructor Sgt. Eusebio Lopez, shot and killed his ex-lover, Lance Cpl. Sara Castromata, and her new lover, Cpl. Jacob Wooley, at Marine Corps Base Quantico’s Officer Candidates School. Lopez then shot himself in the head and died instantly. Lopez had been deployed in Iraq, and suffered a brain injury when his vehicle was hit by an IED.
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Fort Knox, 2013
Fort Knox civilian employee Lloyd Gilbert was shot dead in the parking lot outside the post's Army Human Resources Command building in April, 2013. A soldier stationed at the base, Marquinta E. Jacobs, was arrested in the killing.
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Joint Base San Antonio, 2013
In June 2013, a bizarre murder-for-hire scenario played out at Joint Base San Antonio-Fort Sam Houston, as Capt. Mona McFadden was shot seven times by her common-law husband, retired Army Sgt. Alvin Roundtree. The couple were estranged, and Roundtree brought his nephew in to pay off a hitman he was trying to hire. When that scheme collapsed, Roundtree shot McFadden himself, though she survived. Roundtree was sentenced to 20 years in prison.
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Washington Navy Yard, 2013
Twelve people died and four others were injured after newly-hired government contractor Aaron Alexis opened fire inside the Navy Yard complex in Washington, D.C. on September 13, 2013. Alexis was shot and killed by DC police officers. Authorities later said that Alexis had no ties to Islamic terror, targeted his victims at random, and "held a delusional belief that he was being controlled or influenced by extremely low frequency electromagnetic waves.”
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USS Mahan Boarding, 2013
Ex-convict Jeffrey Savage had no ties to the US Navy, but attempted to board the destroyer USS Mahan, docked at Naval Station Norfolk on March 24, 2014. Savage took a pistol away from an armed petty officer, then shot and killed Petty Officer 2nd Class Mark Mayo, who jumped between the stricken officer and Savage, saving her life. Savage was then shot dead by Navy security forces.
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Fort Hood, 2014
In April, 2014, Iraq War veteran Specialist Ivan A. Lopez opened fire on the grounds of Ford Hood, killing three and injuring 16 others before committing suicide. Lopez was being treated for depression, anxiety, and other behavior and mental issues, and was probably suffering from PTSD, military officials said.
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Little Rock Air Force Base, 2015
In June 2015, civilian Larry McElroy tried to break into Little Rock Air Force Base while brandishing a rifle. He was shot, along with a bystander, and taken to a local hospital. McElroy had no ties to the military or terrorist groups.
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Military Base Shootings I List of All Shootings at US Military Centers
Hawkeye638
Member
The Pentagon just issued a new policy to allow personnel to apply to carry concealed, personal weapons on military installations!
The federal building prohibition still stands, but other locations on base, including in cars, would be covered and allowed under this policy. The individual services now get busy writing their own implementing instructions.
While this is a step in the right direction, it does nothing for most military members in "may issue" states, and states that rarely issue carry licenses to nonresidents (such as Illinois).
As expected, the arming authority must ensure applicants "Meet applicable federal, State, local, or, as applicable, host-nation requirements to carry a firearm. Proof of compliance may include a concealed handgun license that is valid under federal, State, local, or host-nation law in the location where the DoD property is located."
Policy is here, in Section 4:
Link Removed
The federal building prohibition still stands, but other locations on base, including in cars, would be covered and allowed under this policy. The individual services now get busy writing their own implementing instructions.
While this is a step in the right direction, it does nothing for most military members in "may issue" states, and states that rarely issue carry licenses to nonresidents (such as Illinois).
As expected, the arming authority must ensure applicants "Meet applicable federal, State, local, or, as applicable, host-nation requirements to carry a firearm. Proof of compliance may include a concealed handgun license that is valid under federal, State, local, or host-nation law in the location where the DoD property is located."
Policy is here, in Section 4:
Link Removed
Blueshell
Banned
There is no real real reason.
Blueshell
Banned
SR9
New member
The latest I've seen on the subject:
Pentagon to End Gun-Free Zones on Military Bases - Breitbart
Pentagon to End Gun-Free Zones on Military Bases - Breitbart
In my experience the military doesn't actually encourage the lower enlisted to be responsible adults and they most certainly don't trust them with real guns.
Part of the problem is holding the chain of command accountable for things they have ZERO control over. When I was stationed at Ft. Carson a Company Commander was relieved because one of his troops decided to drive home to Texas for a long weekend, fell asleep on the way back and rolled his car and killed himself. The only possible way the C.O. could have prevented this was to preemptively confine the entire unit to the barracks, pretty much forever.
When your career and your retirement are dependent on the actions of a 19 year old you start reducing every thing to the lowest common denominator. I've been in units where the C.O. Required every one E5 and below to present their personal vehicle for a "safety inspection" and if your car failed it was grounded until you fixed the deficiencies.
So, rather than be called on the carpet the very first time some dumb-assed Private blows a hole in his foot the unit commanders are just going to say "No".
Which brings me back to my original suggestion. Arm the SDO, SDNCO and CQs. Arm all Squad Leaders (Basically anyone with a green tab) and ASLs. They come in in the morning, draw their issue side arms and turn them in at COB.
Part of the problem is holding the chain of command accountable for things they have ZERO control over. When I was stationed at Ft. Carson a Company Commander was relieved because one of his troops decided to drive home to Texas for a long weekend, fell asleep on the way back and rolled his car and killed himself. The only possible way the C.O. could have prevented this was to preemptively confine the entire unit to the barracks, pretty much forever.
When your career and your retirement are dependent on the actions of a 19 year old you start reducing every thing to the lowest common denominator. I've been in units where the C.O. Required every one E5 and below to present their personal vehicle for a "safety inspection" and if your car failed it was grounded until you fixed the deficiencies.
So, rather than be called on the carpet the very first time some dumb-assed Private blows a hole in his foot the unit commanders are just going to say "No".
Which brings me back to my original suggestion. Arm the SDO, SDNCO and CQs. Arm all Squad Leaders (Basically anyone with a green tab) and ASLs. They come in in the morning, draw their issue side arms and turn them in at COB.
Blueshell
Banned
I had a squad leader who put gps trackers on select troops cars during leave/r&r. Very illegal, but he knew where they were
I had a squad leader who put gps trackers on select troops cars during leave/r&r. Very illegal, but he knew where they were
Cool story bro.
