What to do in a mugging situation?

[Shoobee]

I think we are in agreement here. (with the bold statement)

But, it is a REAL danger to have the mindset of "if you pull your gun, you WILL shoot someone."

There are times when "presenting" a firearm or just removing it from the holster may be warranted.

For Example:
Let's say multiple BGs have come out from behind concealment and taken you by surprise. They aren't quite close enough to do you harm. (25-30 feet) But, they are armed with "knives" and/or "clubs" & there intent is absoulutly clear!

You sweep your concealment garment back & grab the grip of your firearm. But, it doesn't seem to stop them so you draw. When they see your firearm being drawn they drop their weapons & run; or they just run. (In other words they give up as they see you drawing your weapon.)​

Should you shoot one or more BG in the process of giving up or running away, you could be in HUGE legal trouble!

The correct course of action would be to bring your weapon to the "ready" and look around to be sure ALL threats have left the area. Once you are certain of your safety, re-holster your firearm and call 911.

-------------------------------------

You have said that you have been involved in situations where you had to let the BG know you were armed; but you didn't have to draw. (That is EXCELLENT! It is also probably the most common occurrence in a SD situation.)


Every situation is different and may call for different stages of reaction/action. Shooting someone should be the ABSOLUTE last resort!


No offense meant;
But, you sound like a pretty young person who may not have had much life experience. I hope you will show some wisdom & listen to some of the people that have had more experience than you.

Tcox, I don't know if you have ever been outnumbered, and in a situation like you have described, but I have.

I was O/C in the USFS back-country lands at the time, and the four of them appeared to be unarmed, only that they outnumbered me.

They wanted gasoline because they were almost out, and I told them I could not give them any because I only had barely enough to get me back also.

They did not like that answer.

They asked me if my gun was loaded. I did not reply. I did stare at them intently, preparing to draw and fire if one of them made the wrong move, which was any move except away.

After a very long quiet staring contest, they all left together, when their leader uttered his famous words, "lets get out of here."

"Lets get out of here" is the most common statement I have heard from criminal minds whenever I was O/C and I have caught them in the process of some kind of burglary crime. It is music to my ears. It means they are leaving, on their own, and hopefully not coming back, so I don't need to do anything more, not even call 911.

 

[Treo]

If your draw is so slow that anyone has time to do anything while you are doing it then you need to practice more.

Are you for real? The more I read your posts , the more certain I become that you have no frigging clue.

From Wikipedia

The Tueller Drill is a self-defense training exercise to prepare against a short-range knife attack when armed only with a holstered handgun.

Sergeant Dennis Tueller, of the Salt Lake City, Utah Police Department wondered how quickly an attacker with a knife could cover 21 feet (6.4 m), so he timed volunteers as they raced to stab the target. He determined that it could be done in 1.5 seconds. These results were first published as an article in SWAT magazine in 1983 and in a police training video by the same title, "How Close is Too Close?"[1]

For Example:[/B]
Let's say multiple BGs have come out from behind concealment and taken you by surprise. They aren't quite close enough to do you harm. (25-30 feet) But, they are armed with "knives" and/or "clubs" & there intent is absoulutly clear!

You( to be clear, "You" is Shoobe) want to argue the point W/ Dennis Tueller ?

 

[Shoobee]

To be perfectly honest I'd be shooting at that point. (Unless of course they bailed as I drew) Google: Tueller Drill

I agree with Treo this time, again. To be perfectly honest, I would shoot the closest one who was holding a knife, and then anyone else who was holding a knife.

 

[Shoobee]

Are you for real? The more I read your posts , the more certain I become that you have no frigging clue.

Likewise, Treo, I sometimes think the same of you. Sometimes. Not always. Sometimes we actually agree. Sometimes.

 

[tcox4freedom]

To be perfectly honest I'd be shooting at that point. (Unless of course they bailed as I drew) Google: Tueller Drill

That's the point was trying to make Treo. You may bring your firearm to bear with every intent to SHOOT! (In fact; you should!)

But, you also need to have the maturity & mental faculties to control when it's time to shoot & when it's not. When a BG bails in mid draw it's no longer time to shoot. But, it's NO time to drop your guard either.

There is a fine line when considering things like the Tueller Drill. A Bgs intent can be clear and they are closing the distance. But, yet they can still be 50' away. So shooting them could get you in trouble.

@Shoo
Yes I have faced multiple armed BGs in the situation I described. (More than once!)



-

 

[Treo]

Likewise, Treo, I sometimes think the same of you. Sometimes. Not always. Sometimes we actually agree. Sometimes.

Well let me break it down for you dude starting with your gun in it's holster and me 21(ish) feet away from you w/ a knife in my hand unless you are Kid Colt, I am going to cut you real bad before you get that gun out

 

[Shoobee]

That's the point was trying to make Treo. You may bring your firearm to bear with every intent to SHOOT! (In fact; you should!)

But, you also need to have the maturity & mental faculties to control when it's time to shoot & when it's not. When a BG bails in mid draw it's no longer time to shoot. But, it's NO time to drop your guard either.

-

What I get out of Treo's warblings is that he/she is of the mindset to reach, draw, point, pause, then pull the trigger.

That's way too much time.

A good draw is not a deterrent to crime. It is a reaction to crime.

A good draw lasts only half a second, and there is no pause.

 

[Treo]

What I get out of Treo's warblings is that he/she is of the mindset to reach, draw, point, pause, then pull the trigger.

Ok, well (once again) you are wrong

 

[Shoobee]

Ok, well (once again) you are wrong

If you live to be a good old age that will prove me wrong.

With your mind set though, that a gun is a magic wand that makes all bad guys disappear, I am not too sure you will though.

I think it is more likely that someone will take away your gun from you and shoot you with it.

This fatal problem can be corrected if you take appropriate training however.

The training needs to erase your overconfidence and your fantasies and replace it with respect for the bad guys who are out to rob and/or kill you.

 

[BC1]

Tcox, I don't know if you have ever been outnumbered, and in a situation like you have described, but I have.

I was O/C in the USFS back-country lands at the time, and the four of them appeared to be unarmed, only that they outnumbered me.

They wanted gasoline because they were almost out, and I told them I could not give them any because I only had barely enough to get me back also.

They did not like that answer.

They asked me if my gun was loaded. I did not reply. I did stare at them intently, preparing to draw and fire if one of them made the wrong move, which was any move except away.

After a very long quiet staring contest, they all left together, when their leader uttered his famous words, "lets get out of here."

"Lets get out of here" is the most common statement I have heard from criminal minds whenever I was O/C and I have caught them in the process of some kind of burglary crime. It is music to my ears. It means they are leaving, on their own, and hopefully not coming back, so I don't need to do anything more, not even call 911.

Shoobie, just curious, why didn't you attempt to back away or leave? Standing your ground when other avenues are open is unwise, regardless of the law. Just ask GZ. First rules of engagement are awareness, avoidance, deterrence, de-escalation. Better to not fight if it can at all be avoided. This is the training mindset instilled in me by the NRA, Lethal Force Institute (Mas Ayoob), Gun-For-Hire and numerous other trainers.

Regarding the point and shoot issue, stats show the discharging of a firearm is rare unless the actual attack has commenced. A firearm is used nearly 2 million times per year in America for defense, without pulling he trigger. Thus only 18,000 annual gun-related deaths.

 

[Treo]

If you live to be a good old age that will prove me wrong.

Looks like you're wrong then.

With your mind set though, that a gun is a magic wand that makes all bad guys disappear, I am not too sure you will though.

I think it is more likely that someone will take away your gun from you and shoot you with it.

Based on?

This fatal problem can be corrected if you take appropriate training however.

IDK, I've already made it through a war I'd say I'm good to go

The training needs to erase your overconfidence and your fantasies and replace it with respect for the bad guys who are out to rob and/or kill you.

If you only knew the irony

 

[Shoobee]

Shoobie, just curious, why didn't you attempt to back away or leave? Standing your ground when other avenues are open is unwise, regardless of the law. Just ask GZ. First rules of engagement are awareness, avoidance, deterrence, de-escalation. Better to not fight if it can at all be avoided. This is the training mindset instilled in me by the NRA, Lethal Force Institute (Mas Ayoob), Gun-For-Hire and numerous other trainers.

Regarding the point and shoot issue, stats show the discharging of a firearm is rare unless the actual attack has commenced. A firearm is used nearly 2 million times per year in America for defense, without pulling he trigger. Thus only 18,000 annual gun-related deaths.

I was in my campsite, and they had invaded it together, and there was no way to back down and nowhere to go.

Whatever was going to happen was going to happen, and it was completely up to them.

It ultimately came down to body language, just like in a poker game.

They had no way of knowing if the gun was loaded or not (it was), if I would shoot or not (I would), if I was good on the draw or not (I am), and whether I could drop 4 of them fast enough to stop their rush (that we will never know).

They read the body language, and they left.

 

[Shoobee]

Looks like you're wrong then.



Based on?



IDK, I've already made it through a war I'd say I'm good to go


If you only knew the irony

Treo you are not a good old age yet, so there is no way to know if I am wrong or right yet.

We will need to wait and see.

Not sure whether to bet on you or not, but I would definitely say you have some really bad habits or ideas or both. You are *too* merciful with those who would show no mercy to you.

 

[Treo]

whether I could drop 4 of them fast enough to stop their rush (You couldn't).

Nuff said ........

 

[gunnerbob]

Oh, you guys....

 

[Shoobee]

Nuff said ........

Well then at least one of them was going to die with me Treo. And that was good enough for me. And not worth the gasoline to them.

And no pause during the draw. Did you at least get that part? That's the part you need to learn, still.

 

[Treo]

Treo you are not a good old age yet, so there is no way to know if I am wrong or right yet.

Given, you have no idea how old I am how would you know this?

Not sure whether to bet on you or not, but I would definitely say you have some really bad habits or ideas or both.

You can have an opinion of my "ideas" based on my posts here but how could you possibly form an opinion on my habits

You are *too* merciful with those who would show no mercy to you.

Again, how could you possibly know that?

 

[Shoobee]

Given, you have no idea how old I am how would you know this?



You can have an opinion of my "ideas" based on my posts here but how could you possibly form an opinion on my habits



Again, how could you possibly know that?

Your ideas, based on what you have stated, about pausing during your draw, rather than shooting reflexively, are unsound.

Unsound.

 

[Flanmedic51]

After reading this thread I got retarded for a moment and pissed myself. But after collecting myself, the simple and lawful fact remains is that (in relation to the ongoing argument) that yiu can pull your gun and either fire or not. As long as you are meeting force with reasonable force. If deadly force is justified, then so be it. But there are plenty of scenarios that displaying your gun and not firing to deter the threat is perfectly reasonable. That's my Monday morning QB input for now.

 

[Treo]

Your ideas, based on what you have stated, about pausing during your draw, rather than shooting reflexively, are unsound.

Where did I ever post that?